Thousands of fascists gather on Maidan - announce 'revolution'

[Sentinel]

I have been a bit out of loop with the situation regarding the new conflict between the Right Sector and the Poroshenko government. I knew tensions were rising, but now I just went to RT:s page and saw this..



Up to 6,000 supporters of Ukraine’s ultranationalist Right Sector movement gathered in central Kiev on Tuesday, calling on authorities to resign. The rally marks a “new stage of Ukrainian revolution,” the extremists' leader Dmitry Yarosh announced.
The radicals marched through the center of the Ukrainian capital on Tuesday evening, gathering on Maidan (Independence Square). The rally largely consisted of people wearing camouflage clothes, waving the red and black flags of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA). They were chanting “death to enemies,” TASS reported.
Speaking on Maidan, Right Sector (Pravy Sektor) leader Dmitry Yarosh said that the group is “showing that we are a disciplined revolutionary force,” opening a “new stage of Ukrainian revolution” with the Tuesday rally.

Ahead of the rally, Yarosh has said that the gathering would be “peaceful” in nature.
READ MORE: Poroshenko orders all illegal arms group disarmed in Ukraine amid standoff with Right Sector (http://www.rt.com/news/273406-right-sector-ukraine-twitter/)
The ultranationalist group announced its plans to initiate a referendum on a vote of no-confidence in the Ukrainian authorities. At the rally, protesters demanded the resignation of Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.
Field offices will be organized in all regions of Ukraine to work on the referendum starting from Wednesday, Yarosh announced at the rally, saying that those Right Sector centers will also act as “revolutionary committees.” Imposing martial law on the territory of Ukraine should also be put on the vote, he said.

“People must voice their attitude to what's happening in the country ... the government should know that if the people are not pleased with it, then it must go,” Yarosh said, as quoted by TASS. If the movement is not given the right to organize the referendum, then they will create their own election committee and “will vote independently on the whole territory of Ukraine,” he added.
READ MORE: Show of power: Right Sector nationalists ready to send ‘19 battalions’ to Kiev (http://www.rt.com/news/273253-ukraine-nationalist-battalions-threat/)
Average working people also joined the Tuesday rally, being displeased with poor living standards in the country under the Poroshenko government, RT's correspondent Murad Gazdiev reported from Ukraine.
"Ukraine is in absolutely terrible state at the moment, the economic situation is much worse than it was two years ago under Yanukovich," journalist and broadcaster from London Neil Clark told RT. "It's quite predictable" that people have taken to the streets, he added.
"The situation is going to get worse, because ordinary people are saying ‘what was all that about?’” Clark said, adding that ultranationalists might contribute to destabilizing the situation, as President Poroshenko is now "attacking the very people who helped bring him to power."
READ MORE: Poroshenko signs laws praising Ukraine nationalists as ‘freedom fighters’ (http://www.rt.com/news/259157-ukraine-nazi-freedom-fighters/)



Right Sector radicals participated in Ukraine's previous revolution, and have since been fighting in the in eastern Ukraine conflict. The heavily-armed battalions, who have previously denounced the Minsk ceasefire, made calls "to blockade Donbass" during the Tuesday rally.
On Sunday, the Ukrainian capital saw a large march of approximately 2,000 people who took to the streets of Kiev to protest high housing and public utilities prices. Some of the Sunday march banners read "where are the reforms?" and "we are dying of hunger." A similar rally happened in the city of Dnepropetrovsk in central Ukraine, where dozens of demonstrators, mainly people of older age, blocked one of the roads in the city, demanding the resignation of President Poroshenko.



Link (http://www.rt.com/news/310396-ukraine-right-sector-revolution)

[Sasha]

Yeah? 6000 supporters of a small but militant group protest the quite significant state repression against them.
Russian regime propaganda best they can find is some angry rethoric?
Ukraine got many problems, the fash are certainly among them but are not on the verge of taking over the country.

[Sentinel]

Ok, it was mainly the announcement of 'revolution' there that got me to raise an eyebrow.. I guess it is likely RT hyperbole as you say. They do have a fairly large militia, and I've heard them boast (or rather pro-Russian leftists claim they boast) to have considerably larger reserves, so I got a bit startled about the possibility of a coup attempt.

But as said I've been a bit out of loop, so good to hear you don't think it a very realistic fear. How considerable would you say their support among west Ukrainian civilians is anyway, in relation to disaffection with Poroshenko? Also do they still hold government/army positions, how far has this conflict gone?

[Tim Cornelis]

Will not work.

1) They cannot risk losing potential allies, military and police by fighting them;
2) Conservative elite (figurehead Poroshenko) while it currently calls upon fascism doesn't have sufficient reason to invite them into power because of the lack of a threat of general Russian nationalist insurrection.

When Russian nationalists succeed in spreading the insurrection (not very likely) the prospect of fascism coming in power in Kiev grows.

http://marxistpedia.mwzip.com/w/images/b/bb/Fascism1.png

5 Stages of Fascism, Paxton.

[cyu]

It's not like the CIA learned anything after funding the mujahideen. Then again, if they are intentionally using a strategy of "managed instability" then it doesn't really matter what ideologies they are funding - maybe even intentionally funding opposing ideologies, just to keep the instability at a low roar.

[Tim Cornelis]

Why would the USA/CIA/NATO have an interest in a destabilised Western ally? Russia has an interest in a destabilised Western ally.

[cyu]

The Ukrainian regime used to be an ally of the Russian regime. If the American regime is afraid of Russian moves against the US dollar, then they would make moves against Russia, and Ukraine would be one avenue. Given the past history of the CIA funding any group that they could use, regardless of ideology, whether the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan or getting involved in the Iran-Iraq war, it shouldn't be too surprising they would fund fascist forces, whether Israel objects or no. They regularly support anti-democratic regimes in Latin America and the Middle East as well, so its not really about ideology for them at this point. Just power.

[cyu]

Whether it's the mujahideen or Saddam Hussein, or even Israeli (or Soviet) factions who relent on funding fascist forces for short-term political expediency, it just goes to show if you don't care about the ideology of those you are supporting, the blowback may eventually be more than you bargained for.

[Sasha]

Ok, it was mainly the announcement of 'revolution' there that got me to raise an eyebrow.. I guess it is likely RT hyperbole as you say. They do have a fairly large militia, and I've heard them boast (or rather pro-Russian leftists claim they boast) to have considerably larger reserves, so I got a bit startled about the possibility of a coup attempt.

But as said I've been a bit out of loop, so good to hear you don't think it a very realistic fear. How considerable would you say their support among west Ukrainian civilians is anyway, in relation to disaffection with Poroshenko? Also do they still hold government/army positions, how far has this conflict gone?


last i heard some prominent right sector leader(s?) and a bunch of rank and file got killed in a disarmament operation, they still can call on a significant street presence but its clear the government sees them more as threat than an asset and so is coming down pretty hard on them when they get too loud.

Svoboda lost most of their influence as they got decimated in the elections, they only have 6 local seats and lost all nation wide representation as they didnt make the threshold, they didnt even manage to keep their previously stable homebase Lviv, all their provisional ministers resigned after the ellection.

there are still a bunch of very nasty fash dominated volunteer battalions being used as shock troops and canon fodder in the war in the east but how far they are still under direct control of the organised extreme right parties is unclear, also the russians killed a huge number of them as they where under equipped and considered more expendable than the regular troops by the army brass, this created a lot of the resentment towards the government.

So yeah, they are caught between a rock and a hard place, very pissed of because they lost most of their influence and feel taken advantage off but because of loss of support and stabilization of the political situation there is not much they can do about it.

which is pretty much what i predicted what would happen when this whole mess started, there is still a huge fash problem even by eastern european standards and i wouldnt want to be a lefty, queer of POC in Ukraine but when you desperately want to pick sides between Kiev and Donbass based on "anti-fascism" i'm afraid Kiev has, comparatively obviously, a far better case than the separatists.

Not that we should support Kiev, but the whole Fascist Junta stick is clearly russian imperial propaganda by now.

[Comrade Jacob]

And you all got on my back when I said they were fascists a year ago...

[Tim Cornelis]

Really now? Source?
@Jacob

[Comrade Jacob]

Really now? Source?
@Jacob

It was on the thread in which they tore down a monument of Lenin.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/fascists-topple-lenin-t185653/index.html?t=185653&highlight=Ukraine+Lenin+Fascists

The idiots on this thread...

[Tim Cornelis]

Yes I found it. The dominant opinion (based on 'thanks') was:


I have yet to see proof that these protesters are "fascist" (though they very well might be).

The toppling of the statue wasn't an action under the banner of either Right Sector or Svoboda. So your claim that you said "they" were fascists then, and people disagreed, and now everyone is calling them fascists, thus vindicating you, is simply wrong. No one said Svoboda and Right Sector weren't fascist, and you didn't call them fascist.

[cyu]

Forgive them Jacob, for they know not what they do.

For anybody who watches the mainstream news (or associate with people who watch) in their country, their natural gut reaction would be to believe the bias presented by the policies supported by those news organizations. If that weren't the natural reaction, then that government would never get away with their foreign policy position.