Bourgeois and Petit Bourgeois Ideology

[Sinister Intents]

What specifically defines these?

[Tim Cornelis]

Ideologies that advance the interests of the petty bourgeoisie/bourgeoisie, simply.

As an example, right-libertarianism is a petty bourgeois ideology because it advances the interests of the petty bourgeoisie. The petty bourgeoisie shares in the tax burden of welfare services and workers' welfare and in measures protecting 'Big Business' (e.g. bail outs, intervention on their behalf), but it doesn't receive the benefits. Workers' welfare may eat into their profits by forcing the petty bourgeoisie to pay for workers' pensions. So it is in their interests that these obstacles to economic flourishing are removed, and right-libertarianism proposes to exactly that.

[Sinister Intents]

So, by this, all pacifists are petit bourgeois ideologues because they assert that we shouldn't attack the state and this defends the bourgeoisie. Some syndicalists are definitely petit bourgeois ideologues.

A lot of people have said something influenced by ruling ideology. Like when CN denied the existence of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and basically blamed the oppressed for allowing this to happen.

I say some things that somehow defend ruling ideas and so on I'm sure.

[Armchair Partisan]

So, by this, all pacifists are petit bourgeois ideologues because they assert that we shouldn't attack the state and this defends the bourgeoisie. Some syndicalists are definitely petit bourgeois ideologues.

A lot of people have said something influenced by ruling ideology. Like when CN denied the existence of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and basically blamed the oppressed for allowing this to happen.

I say some things that somehow defend ruling ideas and so on I'm sure.

It is possible to have contradictory principles without being a clear ideologue for one side. I'm leery of responding to this post because it looks like you've written it (and possibly created the thread itself) with an axe to grind against one particular poster, but hey, here goes. Someone who wants to advance communism through elections, or advocates socialist revolution while simultaneously upholding pacifism has contradictory principles, but that doesn't make them petit-bourgeois. Pacifism and upholding elections as an end are, as concepts, (petit-)bourgeois, though.

[Sinister Intents]

I have no ax to grind and I like Communer/CN. Actually I'm trying to use this to critique my own views because I want to be consistent in all avenues

[Tim Cornelis]

Well there is a distinction of subjectivity and objectivity. Subjectively, pacifism is neutral or may be revolutionary. Objectively, in its material consequences, it defends the status quo.

[StromboliFucker666]

Would Mutualism or "left wing market anarchism" be considered petit bourgeois "socialism"?

[Sinister Intents]

Would Mutualism or "left wing market anarchism" be considered petit bourgeois "socialism"?

I'd say yes because it doesn't seek to render the capitalist mode fully obsolete, but eliminate certain aspects of it while keeping other parts in tact

[Sewer Socialist]

Would Mutualism or "left wing market anarchism" be considered petit bourgeois "socialism"?

I would say so, yes. "Market socialist" workers demanding the "full value" of their labor is also similar to the petty-bourgeois "trade union consciousness" - seeking more compensation for their trade, independent from the larger class struggle.

[BIXX]

So, by this, all pacifists are petit bourgeois ideologues because they assert that we shouldn't attack the state and this defends the bourgeoisie. Some syndicalists are definitely petit bourgeois ideologues.

A lot of people have said something influenced by ruling ideology. Like when CN denied the existence of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and basically blamed the oppressed for allowing this to happen.

I say some things that somehow defend ruling ideas and so on I'm sure.

You say a lot of things that defends the existent.

Regarding the project blaming: I don't really care if there is or isn't a "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" (I am more inclined to say we live in the epoch of capital personally but whatever) but I do blame people for not rebelling, or even thinking beyond "oh well it sucks but that's the way things are".

If they're like that, they're an enemy just like a cop.

[Sinister Intents]

Oh yeah? Provide some recent evidence of that.

[Zoop]

but I do blame people for not rebelling, or even thinking beyond "oh well it sucks but that's the way things are".

If they're like that, they're an enemy just like a cop.

Well, the vast majority of workers aren't actively rebelling, and I can almost guarantee that a huge portion of them are dissatisfied with the way things are, but who falsely believe that they can't do anything about it - that they think it's just "the way things are." So that attitude is good to have if all you're interested in is making enemies, but don't for one second think that it helps your cause in any way whatsoever.

[Sewer Socialist]

Oh, I thought of another example: if we have some farmers who own a little bit of land, and they say, we need a more equal distribution of land, rather than demanding anything communal; redistributing wealth, demanding a "fair" marketplace, rather than abolition of private property.

This is moving towards atomized private property, everyone in their own economic sphere, equally a seller and a buyer.

[Tim Cornelis]

Placenta Cream isn't a leftist, so working from that angle doesn't work. Not sure why they're not restricted actually.

[Spectre of Spartacism]

When a leftist says that an ideology is petite bourgeois, they usually mean that that the worldview expressed in it foregrounds concessions to legitimate worker grievances while leaving the basic bourgeois system and its practices in tact. It is a type of bourgeois ideology.

[Cliff Paul]

When a leftist says that an ideology is petite bourgeois, they usually mean that that the worldview expressed in it foregrounds concessions to legitimate worker grievances while leaving the basic bourgeois system and its practices in tact. It is a type of bourgeois ideology.

Not really. Usually when a leftist calls an ideology "petite bourgeois" it's a way of saying not only do I disagree with you, but I'm going to be a pompous asshole about it.

[Spectre of Spartacism]

Not really. Usually when a leftist calls an ideology "petite bourgeois" it's a way of saying not only do I disagree with you, but I'm going to be a pompous asshole about it.

Maybe among Internet leftists, but the technical meaning was asked about.