Why do people hate travellers?

[Sinister Intents]

Why?

[RedWorker]

Almost all my family is working class and left-wing but my mother's father, a factory worker, had negative experiences with Romani because a violent, criminal lumpen-proletarian group of them had moved next to their house and constantly threatened everyone's safety, acting hostile to him and other workers. He kinda became prejudiced against them and maybe had some stereotypes but I don't know if he could really be called racist. It was a different time where there was constant violence and danger everywhere. My mom's family had some really scary experiences with violence. My grandfather never went to school (he learned by himself) and he may have had no understanding of what racism is or why it is bad even though he understood cornerstones of working class politics and was an active participant in strikes and other action.

I guess their violence may have been tied to the discrimination and extreme poverty Romani face. I think my mother was a little affected by it, she used to highlight "gypsies" when talking about violent poor people. But I always criticized that and she agrees with me, realizing that it is some discriminatory bullshit that got stuck in her head. My mother is educated, she understands working class politics and understands why racism is bad and must be opposed by workers.

[G4b3n]

Because of racism? Not sure what sort of answer you are looking for here.

In the Hitlerian narrative, Gypsies resemble Jews in that they do not have a home nation of their own and thus survive by "sucking the blood of host nations like parasites". Which is obviously a load of shit if you know the first thing about how capitalism works. But hope that gives a more specific insight into the sort of racism they face.

[bricolage]

Yeah, nomadic populations doesn't lend themselves to world determined by national borders and territorial integrity.

[tuwix]

Why?

Their lack of respect towards a phenomenon of property is disadvantage in eyes of bourgeois society.

[Palmares]

On top of what has already been said, given their historical/cultural transience and often segregation from other communities, it's not entirely uncommon for them to lack citizenship and/or fluency in local languages. In these cases, they basically have little rights and few options, so their methods of sustenance can err on the side of illegality or other similar types of hustling. So they are basically one the lowest common denominators, comparable to the position in society the indigenous of various places hold, i.e. the "Fourth World".

So on top of this aforementioned class discrimination, obviously race/ethnicity is a part of this precisely in the same way it is for indigenous peoples.

A unfortunate recipe for double discrimination... :mad:

[Futility Personified]

As said, poverty goes hand in hand with violence. In the south west of england, you'll hear a great deal of anecdotes about gypsies and crime. I think they are definitely victims of racism, and often live in circumstances of poverty, but a lot of people have experienced belligerence at the hands of them. As ever, you can never judge a whole people, and should always wait for all the facts in these type of cases, because more often then not people jump the shark and indulge their prejudice.

[Thirsty Crow]

I guess their violence may have been tied to the discrimination and extreme poverty Romani face.
That's a short but appropriate description of the problem.

Here in Croatia, discrimination against the Romani is endemic. The word "gypsy" is used as an insult for instance, indicating both something like a hatred for lumpen people and a ethnic/racial basis. Most of the time you could hear arguments about idleness (and poverty) which is related to "criminal" behavior - stealing primarily, but also other assorted stuff like begging on the streets and being a welfare scrounger. People also harp about the closed nature of the Romani community.

[John Nada]

Why is this thread using "Gypsy" as a name for the Roma people? It's a derogatory name for an oppressed people that came from the mistaken belief that they were Egyptian.

Most Romani do not live a criminal lifestyle. They often work in precarious, low paying jobs if possible with very high unemployment due to racism. Housing and education is a problem too. Living on welfare and moving place to place is reenforced due to racism. Poor, foreign and on welfare makes them a convenient scapegoat for racists.

It's fucking outrageous the level of anti-Roma racism that's mainstream. I'd fucking just start doing crimes too if society wrote me off as a dangerous gangster by birth.

[Zoop]

Because of prejudice and stereotypical thinking. Exactly like other forms of bigotry really.

[Cliff Paul]

Well, Romani people make excellent scapegoats - weird foreigners who don't seem to fit in with "normal" society. A couple of years back an entire Romani settlement was burned to the ground after an Italian girl falsely accused two Romani men of raping her.

Now Romani people probably do tend to have higher incidences of criminal behavior when compared to the general population, but this is hardly surprising. It's probably easier for Romani people to earn a decent income illicitly than it is for them make money through legal means. Of course the actual proportion of Romanis that are criminals is quite low, but the stereotype of the "Romani thief" is a self-perpetuating statement. The Romani people are chastised as criminals and denied a realistic means attaining a livelihood and as a result some Romanis turn to crime and the process repeats...

[consuming negativity]

why is any marginalized group of people branded as callous criminals and segregated into ghettos away from the rest of the population? it happens for the same core reasons every single time, no matter the color, the religion, the race, whatever you want to call it.

[BIXX]

I honestly know very little about this but I do have a few questions.

I think I've heard that "gypsy" was a blanket term that included the Romani. Along with several other groups. Is this true?

Shit actually that's my only question.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I think that's only true in the US. If you used the word Roma here no one would have a clue what you were talking about. As a result I think of a lot of people here honestly don't know gypsy is an offensive term, which is my guess why the word is being used in the thread title here.

[hexaune]

I honestly know very little about this but I do have a few questions.

I think I've heard that "gypsy" was a blanket term that included the Romani. Along with several other groups. Is this true?

Shit actually that's my only question.


Over here (in the UK) its a blanket term for travellers and covers romani, irish and new age travellers.

[mushroompizza]

People don't even know what a Romani is, they just think gypsies are thieves by birth. At least the Jews have risen from some of the antisemitism of old, antiziganism is still strong because no one has combated it since it was created. People don't even realized Gyped is a ethnic slur, its the equivalent of saying kiked.

[Mr. Piccolo]

Almost all my family is working class and left-wing but my mother's father, a factory worker, had negative experiences with Romani because a violent, criminal lumpen-proletarian group of them had moved next to their house and constantly threatened everyone's safety, acting hostile to him and other workers. He kinda became prejudiced against them and maybe had some stereotypes but I don't know if he could really be called racist. It was a different time where there was constant violence and danger everywhere. My mom's family had some really scary experiences with violence. My grandfather never went to school (he learned by himself) and he may have had no understanding of what racism is or why it is bad even though he understood cornerstones of working class politics and was an active participant in strikes and other action.

I guess their violence may have been tied to the discrimination and extreme poverty Romani face. I think my mother was a little affected by it, she used to highlight "gypsies" when talking about violent poor people. But I always criticized that and she agrees with me, realizing that it is some discriminatory bullshit that got stuck in her head. My mother is educated, she understands working class politics and understands why racism is bad and must be opposed by workers.

I think most people take their negative experiences with certain "out" groups and make them the basis for racism or other forms of prejudiced thinking. I think this is how most people operate. When people have bad experiences with Romani they tend to think "that's typical behavior" for that group.

[Sinister Intents]

Thanks everyone

[cyu]

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/scapegoat_theory.htm

Like bullies, we will often pick on powerless people who cannot easily resist.

Gay people, immigrants, asylum seekers, random minorities, the homeless - what do they have in common? They're relatively powerless, and the rest of society is a bunch of cowards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

Scapegoating can also cause oppressed groups to lash out at other oppressed groups. Even when injustices are committed against a minority group by the majority group, minorities sometimes lash out against a different minority group in lieu of confronting the more powerful majority.

[Comrade Jacob]

I don't get the hatred of Gypsies. But's it's the whole "Coming over here on *are land not contributing to this great country of *ares"


*Intentional misspelling

[Lanfear]

Why is this thread using "Gypsy" as a name for the Roma people? It's a derogatory name for an oppressed people that came from the mistaken belief that they were Egyptian.

Most Romani do not live a criminal lifestyle. They often work in precarious, low paying jobs if possible with very high unemployment due to racism. Housing and education is a problem too. Living on welfare and moving place to place is reenforced due to racism. Poor, foreign and on welfare makes them a convenient scapegoat for racists.

It's fucking outrageous the level of anti-Roma racism that's mainstream. I'd fucking just start doing crimes too if society wrote me off as a dangerous gangster by birth.
I didnt realise that is where the name came from. I agree with your post though sadly the actions of a few have tarnished the many. Mainly due to media bias mind you

[Aslan]

In my country people view gypsies as dirty beggars who steal and can't be helped. So basically racism...

[Qayin]

I was a "traveler" for a good part of 2014/2015. It has a lot to do with the U$A's protestant work ethic. Anybody who doesn't work and live is basically a heathen, a leech, a parasite...because work is a holy institution.

[Viridian]

My stance is that traveler's are disliked often with good reason. In my own experience, living in the UK, I've found that they are often thieves (I had money stolen from me when I was a kid by a gypsy), and generally tend to be a nuisance wherever they go, leave huge amounts of litter etc. I know you can't tar everybody with the same brush but I don't think in this regard that it is an unreasonable dislike. I think as left-wingers we understand the importance of working together, whereas Romani gypsies tend to intentionally isolate themselves from the rest of society. In my family history I have Romani gypsies, my great great grandmother was excommunicated by her family for choosing to be with a non-traveler.

So whilst there are the oppressed (homeless, asylum seekers etc) do not choose their position. I think the gypsy culture in of itself is many part of their problems (from what I know about Romani gypsies). Though I also know in other places in the world it is the other way around, and people who are travelers simply can't integrate into society for a better life even though they may want to, but are not accepted based upon prejudice, and this is wrong.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Any further use of the word "Gypsy" except in the context of quotations, or appropriate criticism will result in infractions.

The amount of bigotted garbage in this thread is horrifying.
Literally, in a Canadian context, you could replace every instance of "Gypsy" (wtf? srsly?) in the post above this with "Native" and it would be standard right-wing tropes.
And that's the thing - these are tropes: "Dirty." "They choose their conditions." etc. are fucking the same shit that is always and everywhere said about oppressed minorities. Fuuuuuuuck.

[Qayin]

My stance is that traveler's are disliked often with good reason. In my own experience, living in the UK, I've found that they are often thieves (I had money stolen from me when I was a kid by a gypsy), and generally tend to be a nuisance wherever they go, leave huge amounts of litter etc. I know you can't tar everybody with the same brush but I don't think in this regard that it is an unreasonable dislike. I think as left-wingers we understand the importance of working together, whereas Romani gypsies tend to intentionally isolate themselves from the rest of society. In my family history I have Romani gypsies, my great great grandmother was excommunicated by her family for choosing to be with a non-traveler.

So whilst there are the oppressed (homeless, asylum seekers etc) do not choose their position. I think the gypsy culture in of itself is many part of their problems (from what I know about Romani gypsies). Though I also know in other places in the world it is the other way around, and people who are travelers simply can't integrate into society for a better life even though they may want to, but are not accepted based upon prejudice, and this is wrong.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2853671)


Revleft allows these sorta people now? Fuck this guy

[Luís Henrique]

People hate travellers?

What does this even mean?

Luís Henrique

[Lord Testicles]

@Luís Henrique

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

[Quail]

^ Or Irish travellers. I changed the title of the thread from "gypsies" to "travellers" without telling anyone, sorry.

Will be infracting Viridian for their post above.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Saying "because racism" is too simplistic. It begs the question - why are people racist towards Roma, and why does this bigotry extend to travelers of all types?

There are Roma and travelers who are criminal and those who aren't, as with all populations to varying degrees. I think it's easier to scapegoat this community, however, due to their nomadism as they move into a new community where few people know them. As such, I think people are more prone to make judgments about the character of their whole community. After all, bigotry is produced by the alienation between two communities of people. You might have thirty people move to an encampment. One or two might commit crimes, and one or two families might not clean up their mess when they leave to a new town. Then, the whole group is judged as somehow responsible.

[cyu]

One day I'm just going to go around to every political discussion on the internet and post links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

...I'd probably get accused of spamming or trolling though :lol:

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

1) They hate us cuz they ain't us
2) They're PB&Jealous