actions derived from communication theory

[BIXX]

So, I'm just gonna throw some links at you that are in the general communisation current. I'd like to talk about what praxis can be drawn from the different journal and positions, as I think that kind of discussion is quite limited normally (as opposed to having the correct theory, or the infamous krondstadt rebellion threads).

http://sicjournal.org/issues/
A journal I find extremely well written at times, however I do get somewhat bored (but then again its hard for me to read anything drier than Bakunin due to my boredom).

http://www.ultra-com.org
I've heard it described as communication oriented (by Sasha I think). Published pieces like "why riot?" which if I remember correctly detailed some arguments pertaining to the title as well as a bit of history regarding the Seattle 2012 riots.

http://endnotes.org.uk
The eminent endnotes. Far too boring for me and honestly what I did read seemed a little disappointing but a lot of people really like it.

Regarding the one that seemed to interest me the most, I think that the logical conclusions that can be drawn from it have a lot to do with prepping for a more criminal existence. Less of a guerilla type attack seems like what would be effective, however factory takeovers and boss kidnappings seem to have been favored greatly by the writers.

Anyway, yeah, looking for what you think these articles/journals, taken to their logical extent, would support in terms of action.

[Sewer Socialist]

maybe eating a sandwich, then having another orgy or insurrection or whatever



Seriously though, I haven't read Endnotes before, but I like it. Maybe I'm finding it easier than the last time I've tried to get into communization stuff because I've read a fair amount of Marx since then. Or maybe I just happen to like Endnotes more than anything else by the communizationistologists.

I completely failed to answer your question, but maybe someone else's response can kick-start a real response from me. Do you have anything, Placenta Cream?

[BIXX]

Do you have anything, Placenta Cream
Especially judging from what is said in sic, I would say that the action that makes most sense is crime, and i don't mean it in the "the revolution will be illegal" sense but in the every day stealing, vandalism, etc... direct improvements to your own life.

This is due, imo, to the restructuring of capital to lower the value of labour power in total, which forces people into ever decreasing levels of stability (http://sicjournal.org/what-is-communisation/).

On the other hand one might use that same article to say we ought to do nothing and wait, similar to the position nihcom seems to take, because a material reality will cause revolt in everyone- however i personally disagree with the idea that we should wait in that case.

[oneday]

Especially judging from what is said in sic, I would say that the action that makes most sense is crime, and i don't mean it in the "the revolution will be illegal" sense but in the every day stealing, vandalism, etc... direct improvements to your own life.

I fail to see how individual petty crime has any chance of resulting in revolutionary change in the social relations. You have some chance of getting caught and simply labeled as a misguided youth, with no chance of propaganda value. Perhaps it is valuable as a type of social welfare if you manage not to get caught, but not much else.

However, mass rioting and looting does seem to represent a major threat to the existing order, as we see denunciations from all sections of the official media. The act of taking something without paying for it seems to be the ultimate cardinal sin in the current system. I'm not sure how this could transform into revolutionary change either though.

[BIXX]

I fail to see how individual petty crime has any chance of resulting in revolutionary change in the social relations.
That's also not what I said. I said I didn't think it'd lead to revolution, but to a potential of better life for you. Also we aren't necessarily looking at the things we agree with but the ideas that might be drawn from these journals.


However, mass rioting and looting does seem to represent a major threat to the existing order, as we see denunciations from all sections of the official media. The act of taking something without paying for it seems to be the ultimate cardinal sin in the current system. I'm not sure how this could transform into revolutionary change either though.
To be fair I don't think most people who participate in a riot or anything like that are looking to make revolution. I mean I would consider almost all riots to be a result of alienation but since when does that realistically mean a desire for revolution? I'm most people I've met (including, yes disenfranchised youth) this either translates into desire for destruction or desertion. Revolution though? Not once.

[oneday]

That's also not what I said. I said I didn't think it'd lead to revolution, but to a potential of better life for you. Also we aren't necessarily looking at the things we agree with but the ideas that might be drawn from these journals.

It seemed like that's what you were implying. If the effort is only to make life better for the individual, with no horizon of abolishing capitalism present, then I don't see how it is any different from forming coops, pushing for higher wages, reformism, supporting progressive businesses, etc.

So I've read "The Coming Insurrection", the article "What is Communisation?" you linked, a little bit of "Communization and it's Discontents" and little bit here and there of Tiqqun stuff. Also older ultraleft stuff like "Society of the Spectacle". Is there anything that stands out as must-read?


To be fair I don't think most people who participate in a riot or anything like that are looking to make revolution. I mean I would consider almost all riots to be a result of alienation but since when does that realistically mean a desire for revolution? I'm most people I've met (including, yes disenfranchised youth) this either translates into desire for destruction or desertion. Revolution though? Not once.

Well you're right but I think most past revolutions have been preceded by lots of civil unrest beforehand, even if most of the rioters could not formulate a desire. It's only in retrospect that these actions were seen as the run up to a revolution.

Yes, disenfranchised, alienated youth act out in destructive ways or drop-out. But they also do things like go to Syria and join fundamentalist Islamist groups in droves. While obviously these are our bitter enemy, is there anything we can learn from the appeal of these groups? Could some of these people realize the need to do abolish the relations that are causing the alienation instead of decide to blow themselves up to escape it?

[BIXX]

It seemed like that's what you were implying. If the effort is only to make life better for the individual, with no horizon of abolishing capitalism present, then I don't see how it is any different from forming coops, pushing for higher wages, reformism, supporting progressive businesses, etc.
Well I'd see the crime as taking a specific anti-capitalist content, esp. when framed in terms of attack and recurring destruction of the ability for capital to control us.


So I've read "The Coming Insurrection", the article "What is Communisation?" you linked, a little bit of "Communization and it's Discontents" and little bit here and there of Tiqqun stuff. Also older ultraleft stuff like "Society of the Spectacle". Is there anything that stands out as must-read?
Idk, there are a lot of names that come up, but its hard to find out what specifically aligns itself with communization (which is why I linked sic, endnotes).


Well you're right but I think most past revolutions have been preceded by lots of civil unrest beforehand, even if most of the rioters could not formulate a desire. It's only in retrospect that these actions were seen as the run up to a revolution.

Yes, disenfranchised, alienated youth act out in destructive ways or drop-out. But they also do things like go to Syria and join fundamentalist Islamist groups in droves. While obviously these are our bitter enemy, is there anything we can learn from the appeal of these groups? Could some of these people realize the need to do abolish the relations that are causing the alienation instead of decide to blow themselves up to escape it?
I think that we are not in a place to convince youth that their anger and action is misplaced (hell, I'm one of the youth we are talking about right now), I think personal experience, the conditions of their lives, and the breaking down of liberal narratives is what convinces people. And I don't think simply educating people effectively counters those liberal narratives- it has to come from their lived experiences.

[bcbm]

in the context of at least 'the coming insurrection,' crime is more part of a project to restructure our lives for ourselves as a partisan force and stop reproducing capital than a means to individual betterment, and occurs in conjunction with communizing other tools (land, machines, etc)

[BIXX]

That's an interesting point. Now I'm wondering if I should go back and read Hostis, as it had the same premise for part of it.

[bcbm]

i dont think it is particularly compelling, it seems like a post-modern rehash of dropout culture that has existed for anarchists since time immemorial, but on the other hand communizing shit with your friends sounds better than working for the man every night and day so

[John Nada]

That's also not what I said. I said I didn't think it'd lead to revolution, but to a potential of better life for you. Also we aren't necessarily looking at the things we agree with but the ideas that might be drawn from these journals.If those links are applied as described, it has to be a revolution. Simultaneously waging an insurrection and destroying capitalist relations is a revolution. I'd say it would be better for everyone's life, though not so much for counterrevolutionaries.
To be fair I don't think most people who participate in a riot or anything like that are looking to make revolution. I mean I would consider almost all riots to be a result of alienation but since when does that realistically mean a desire for revolution? I'm most people I've met (including, yes disenfranchised youth) this either translates into desire for destruction or desertion. Revolution though? Not once.A revolution would be the desertion from classes and the destruction of capitalism. That they know there's a problem is half there. Finding the solution takes work. Might not seem realistic, but it'll probably happen.
Well you're right but I think most past revolutions have been preceded by lots of civil unrest beforehand, even if most of the rioters could not formulate a desire. It's only in retrospect that these actions were seen as the run up to a revolution.I think there was like a dozen chances for a US revolution in the past hundred years. Each time the left liquidates itself after the first defeat, or when the state concedes to some grievances to placate it from going father. Many lessons from the successes and failures are forgotten, and it repeats.
Yes, disenfranchised, alienated youth act out in destructive ways or drop-out. But they also do things like go to Syria and join fundamentalist Islamist groups in droves. While obviously these are our bitter enemy, is there anything we can learn from the appeal of these groups? Could some of these people realize the need to do abolish the relations that are causing the alienation instead of decide to blow themselves up to escape it?True. That capitalism tends to alienation and self-destruction is not guaranteed to lead to a socialist revolution. Outright reactionaries can take advantage and do take advantage of this despair. Hell, theoretically anyone can do the same overall strategy in the op's links, but not to revolutionary ends. Like those Islamist waging a protracted people's war, which gives them a whole damn de facto state as a platform.

There are some people who want to actively take part in revolution(isn't even violent part), some who are reactionaries and a lost cause, and most will likely not give a fuck or think it's interest but sit back.
Well I'd see the crime as taking a specific anti-capitalist content, esp. when framed in terms of attack and recurring destruction of the ability for capital to control us.Per the links you posted, it wouldn't be a crime. Rather it'd be take back what's rightfully everyone's.
I think that we are not in a place to convince youth that their anger and action is misplaced (hell, I'm one of the youth we are talking about right now), I think personal experience, the conditions of their lives, and the breaking down of liberal narratives is what convinces people. And I don't think simply educating people effectively counters those liberal narratives- it has to come from their lived experiences.That's what the links say communization will do. Although IMO it'd likely not be a quick insurrections but a protracted thing. Just because now everyone doesn't give a fuck or is cynical doesn't mean it'll be the same 10 or 20 years later.

[oneday]

i dont think it is particularly compelling, it seems like a post-modern rehash of dropout culture that has existed for anarchists since time immemorial, but on the other hand communizing shit with your friends sounds better than working for the man every night and day so

Though what I'm trying to figure out is how to communize shit. What shit lends itself particularly well to being communized and how?

[bcbm]

Though what I'm trying to figure out is how to communize shit. What shit lends itself particularly well to being communized and how?

well some of the invisible committee people have a farm and a bar in rural france. theres some examples listed in the coming insurrection i think too. a lot of it is just more communal type living, sharing space and resources.

[BIXX]

Seebi always pictured it as a note heavy handed conflict with the existent (stealing to share/attack capital, squats, etc...)

[John Nada]

Though what I'm trying to figure out is how to communize shit. What shit lends itself particularly well to being communized and how?I'll try to sum up What is Communisation (http://sicjournal.org/what-is-communisation/). It says the shit Marx said would happen is happening. The rate of profit is declining. Post-WWII economic growth in the 1st world gave the illusion that capitalism was working again. During this post-war boom a compromise was struck between workers, their sellout unions/communist parties and capitalist for secure careers with good pay and benefits. Social democratic reforms were enacted that amelorated the exploitation of the 1st-world workers. Still, only a small percentage of the proletariat benefited globally. It was because of the destruction of capital due to the war, superprofits by imperialist exploitation of the 3rd-world and oppressed peoples in the dominate country, that this burst of growth and prosperity(for some) happened.

However, starting in the mid-60's, the economy started returning to it's old self. Cheaper commodities were overproduced to keep up profitability. Alienation had dominated the "consumer society" because making and selling this shit replaced the social relations behind this. Capitalism couldn't keep up the rate of profit anymore with all those concessions to the workers. To offset this, the capitalist squeezed more out of the workers. By the 80's, capitalist tore up their agreement with unions and the state dismantled the post-war reforms. The capitalist laid off workers in the 1st-world countries, and outsourced to the 3rd-world where the workers could be super-exploited for greater surplus value. These 3rd-world countries likely won't get a consumer base because the economy is directed towards producing commodities for their imperial masters.

Now under capitalism, the workers worldwide became more precarious. State benefits are no longer there for the poor. Temporary jobs have replaced stable careers. Going from unemployed to bouncing from job to job is becoming the norm. Those same parties that swore they were for the workers and the poor, like Labour, Socialist and Democrats, spearheaded the push for these cuts and undo progressive reforms, while campaigning on stopping conservatives from doing the cuts. This is called neoliberalism, but it's really capitalism going back to what capitalism really is.

This neoliberal era, of imperialist capitalism in decay, will not go back to "the good old days". Progressive reforms have become "Please don't cut this, or fire people". But since capitalism in decline, the capitalist can't buy workers off like they did. It's an illusion from small victories in the past. That plea will be in vain.

What is need is communization. It is not a aim or project but a path. There should be no transition. Capitalism has to be destroyed co-currently with the revolution. The proletariat shouldn't seek to stay proletarians, but destroy classes altogether, as well as hierarchies, patriarchy, commodity production, money and value. Any pause is a counterrevolution, often from within, that capitalism will jump on to restore capitalism. Both building the revolution and fighting the counterrevolution makes it like 2 simultaneous revolutions.

As to how to do this exactly, the article says it's up to the people in the circumstances.

It seems like basic Marxist shit. I don't see how the declining rate of profit makes it better to improve you life with crime. Not that I give a fuck how one get's their grind on. That's more surviving than thriving.

How to achieve communization, IMO hypothetically, either an insurrection or protracted people's war. Or wait for a revolutionary party getting a supermajority in the legislature, or a comet hitting earth.:)