Bruce Jenner/ Caitlyn Jenner

[Antiochus]

Anyway, I am sure you've heard about it since it has been all over the news. Usually I stay away from fanfare and 'reality' television, but I think its relevant in this case. Do you think this signals growing acceptance of the transgender in the U.S or is it just more acceptance because she is famous and rich?

[Le Libérer]

I'm not seeing as much acceptance from her base at all. She came out as a Republican as well. And Fox news blundered the whole thing by calling her 'him' and saying stuff like 'the world is going to end' etc.

It's a tough question for sure. I mean Magic Johnson and his fame opened the door to accepting PLWAs. I am hopeful Jenner's plight will do the same thing for our trans community.

[soup]

Nah, trans people are still heavily discriminated against. A bourgeois reactionary trans woman posing on a magazine cover will do little to change that.

[Sewer Socialist]

I dunno. The only response, as far as I've seen, is: "look how beautiful she is!", because that is the standard by which women are judged, and transwomen who do not meet approval are valued proportionately, which is to say, very little.

And this is something of an improvement, some acceptance of trans people instead of none; however, this is a very conditional acceptance, or a token acceptance - only acceptance of those who achieve difficult beauty standards, which are especially difficult for people with limited income. According to Jenner, she has had multiple surgeries so far, presumably adding up to tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I'm not sure whether this is an improvement at all for everyone in that situation.

Of course, I also haven't really read that much about it.

[Ocean Seal]

I'm not seeing as much acceptance from her base at all. She came out as a Republican as well. And Fox news blundered the whole thing by calling her 'him' and saying stuff like 'the world is going to end' etc.

It's a tough question for sure. I mean Magic Johnson and his fame opened the door to accepting PLWAs. I am hopeful Jenner's plight will do the same thing for our trans community.
I think that's less likely. Magic Johnson was a beloved bball player and then he got aids. Bruce/Bellinda Jenner came up as a reality tv icon that is routinely mocked in every community. Essentially, this is seen by most as a publicity stunt, since that is the basis of the Jenner reality show (being more and more ridiculous) and selling copies of people magazines at the front of supermarkets.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

First off, I am happy for Caitlyn that she has been able to go through the transition. It can be a difficult and exhausting process for many trans individuals. And yes, she does look nice....not because she 'passes' or any of that hetero-normative bullshit, but because she does genuinely look wonderful.

But make no mistake, those Vanity Fair photos have been photoshopped. She's also had some facial work done. Obviously since she has the might and power of the Kardashian PR machine behind her, she can afford it. Most trans individuals can't.

[BIXX]

Why do people care about jenner?

[Atsumari]

Nah, trans people are still heavily discriminated against. A bourgeois reactionary trans woman posing on a magazine cover will do little to change that.
I disagree. Reality TV is certainly horrific and her affiliation with the Republican Party is pretty ugh, but seeing the positive reactions of many of my friends, many of whom grew up in redneck central most certainly disproves this statement.
I remember all the people in my middle school who went on gay witch hunts and in high school, many of them become supporters of LGBT rights when shows such as Glee started airing and when tabloid TV went ham on LGBT rights. Admit it guys, the worst of bourgeois culture played a positive role in the LGBT rights movement whether we like to admit it or not.

[BIXX]

But I mean why do we even want straight society to recognize us.

I think Jenner is (not through her own efforts, but through those in the media- when I refer to Jenner that is primarily what I'm talking about) causing a lot of people to be washed over. She had so much wealth and power available to her to transition- so much that I think the media will continue to ignore the real danger of being trans for poor people.

But then again why do we care what straight society thinks. Idk I'm just pissed that we are seeing a prime example of assimilation.

[Quail]

I think it's one thing for people to say supportive things about a wealthy, conventionally attractive transgender celebrity, and another thing entirely to actually support transgender people in their communities. I think it's good to see more out transgender people in the media (and obviously to seem them treated with more respect), but focussing on celebrities draws attention away from the real issues, like the high rates of homelessness faced by transgender youth.

[Zoop]

The ultimate goal is to eradicate prejudice, and high-profile celebrities like Jenner revealing things like this does contribute to a partial diminution in prejudice. Acts like these humanise an oppressed group, and it serves as an important consciousness raising activity. Integration is the key, and by doing this, she integrates transgenderism into our culture, and we become familiar with it.

I'm not overly glorifying this, but it does help, even if the help is small.

It's sad that it has to happen this way, instead of you know, people just fucking empathising with other people, but that's the way it is.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Why do people care about jenner?
The cult of celebrity.

[Armchair Partisan]

Better late than never, I guess. I wonder how she reconciled this with her dinosaur politics. I also wonder how different her acceptance would have been if she hadn't made an erotic, presumably heavily retouched photoshoot to broadcast her transformation.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Jenner is wealthy, so her transition has been relatively easy compared to what most trans women experience. Many of us can struggle for years without ever having the money to afford all the various surgeries (if we want them in the first place). Her transition is an unrealistic representation of the trans experience, and in many ways has turned it into tabloid fodder.

[consuming negativity]

nevermind, this post was stupid

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Her picture was manipulated to the same extent as a super model's would be. She doesn't look like that, nobody does. Is this the kind of acceptance people are looking for? One which requires thousands of dollars of digital editing before the mouth breathing general public will even be able to stomach looking at you?

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

Jenner is wealthy, so her transition has been relatively easy compared to what most trans women experience. Many of us can struggle for years without ever having the money to afford all the various surgeries (if we want them in the first place). Her transition is an unrealistic representation of the trans experience, and in many ways has turned it into tabloid fodder.


i was gonna say, must be great to be rich

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Also, I don't know about all this acceptance for Jenner. There seems to be more hate and ignorance being spewed out there than support.

[BIXX]

Also, I don't know about all this acceptance for Jenner. There seems to be more hate and ignorance being spewed out there than support.

However I think that it wouldn't be unreasonable to day that the ratio of acceptance/support to hatred she is getting is way higher than your average trans person. Esp if they make the decision to not transition/transition partly.

[Sewer Socialist]

But I mean why do we even want straight society to recognize us.

I think Jenner is (not through her own efforts, but through those in the media- when I refer to Jenner that is primarily what I'm talking about) causing a lot of people to be washed over. She had so much wealth and power available to her to transition- so much that I think the media will continue to ignore the real danger of being trans for poor people.

But then again why do we care what straight society thinks. Idk I'm just pissed that we are seeing a prime example of assimilation.

Well, I'm not going to say what trans people should or shouldn't care about, but transphobia is a real force that really hurts and even kills people.

[BIXX]

Well, I'm not going to say what people should or shouldn't care about, but transphobia is a real force that really hurts and even kills people.

Yes I am aware of that but I really don't think that assimilation into straight society helps that much.

Eta- I doubt any transperson hasn't experienced transphobic violence but at what point do we become complicit in our own annihilation with liberal "acceptance" campaigns and a struggle for recognition of our legitimacy, IMO we should be fighting against all ruberocs of legitimacy.

[Redistribute the Rep]

nevermind, this post was stupid

You can delete your posts you know

[The Disillusionist]

But I mean why do we even want straight society to recognize us.

I think Jenner is (not through her own efforts, but through those in the media- when I refer to Jenner that is primarily what I'm talking about) causing a lot of people to be washed over. She had so much wealth and power available to her to transition- so much that I think the media will continue to ignore the real danger of being trans for poor people.

But then again why do we care what straight society thinks. Idk I'm just pissed that we are seeing a prime example of assimilation.

While I think this is a good point, I also think it's way too hipster.

"I was into trans-genderism way before it was accepted by mainstream society." :castro: (This Castro face is actually a hipster face.)

[Sewer Socialist]

Yes I am aware of that but I really don't think that assimilation into straight society helps that much.

Eta- I doubt any transperson hasn't experienced transphobic violence but at what point do we become complicit in our own annihilation with liberal "acceptance" campaigns and a struggle for recognition of our legitimacy, IMO we should be fighting against all ruberocs of legitimacy.

I agree, that these sorts of campaigns tend to leave lots of people behind who fail to meet harsh standards of legitimacy.

But "help" is something of a subjective term. The world's a violent and lonely place; not everyone can go it alone. People have their reasons for assimilation, and I could go so far as to say that even countercultural people often assimilate in one way or another, and hold others to standards, even if they aren't "mainstream".

[Hatshepsut]

I find it fucking disgusting this is even worth discussing. Lenin would not approve of this degenerate bullshit.

But RevLeft has a forum titled "Discrimination" where all differential treatment of social groups is discussed. What Lenin might have thought is irrelevant here; that belongs under Politics or History or Theory. And good luck with finding period sources on it in a scarce literature before putting words into Lenin's mouth. We do know that CPSU removed Western-style sexual vice laws from Russia's penal codes after 1917 and that no such bourgeois prohibition was enforced during the remainder of Lenin's lifetime.

What Lenin would have disapproved is the merchandising of athletes and their private lives amid private wealth in a society imbued with Marx's fetishization of commodities.

So witness the bourgeois exploit gender role assignments and persecution of trans folks by manufacturing new consumer needs for hormones and plastic surgery most people can't afford, adding to our society yet more envy the repression of which becomes military. When we stop dressing babies in pink and blue and giving them doll houses and toy guns, perhaps we will come to accept our bodies as is, under less pressure to change our appearance to conform to fashion demands. We ridicule those unisex Communist Party outfits yet that clothing item seems to have had precisely this kind of divisive situation in mind.

[Lord Testicles]

Bruce Jenner is a man, he always has been and always will be. I find it fucking disgusting this is even worth discussing. Lenin would not approve of this degenerate bullshit.

This is a poor attempt at trolling.

[Philosophos]

I don't really think it helped. It might have made a small difference from here to there, but still there is a long way until trans people are accepted 100% by society

[Comrade Jacob]

She's an awful front person for Trans-people. Despite being trans she has a large amount of privilege for being a rich, white, republican celebrity.