Anti-Islam Protest in Arizona

[The Disillusionist]

https://news.vice.com/article/heres-what-happened-at-the-anti-islam-protest-and-draw-muhammad-contest-in-arizona

Kudos to the anarchists for their presence and self-control at this rally.

I think this event demonstrates the importance in many cases of pacifism as an anarchist tactic. In this case, by avoiding any major conflict, the anarchists positively contributed to the rally and protested the Muslims at the local mosque, but they didn't incite any conflict that would have given the heavily-armed fascist rednecks an excuse to start killing Muslims (which is obviously the excuse that they were looking for, or they wouldn't have brought guns in the first place).

I've seen a lot of stupid arguments on this website that pacifism is inherently racist because it assumes a position of privilege, but in situations like this, violence would be the truly racist option, because it would result in a bunch of privileged anarchists acting selfishly and getting a bunch of peaceful minorities killed as a result, while also adding fuel to the fire of anti-Muslim hate already present at the rally.

So, again, kudos to anarchists, not just for their physical presence at the rally, but for their presence of mind. I know I would have been really tempted to attack some of those redneck assholes, but that would not have been the best plan of action.

[RA89]

Why should we care though?

Islam is just as reactionary as the right wingers. Why not stick up for something that isn't against many basic human rights for so much of the population instead? The rally people were there to draw muhammed etc. They didn't start any violence at the last rally or this one.

There would be trouble only if the muslims responded violently just like the last time. And I don't want to hear some bullshit like the rally goers started trouble by doing the offensive drawings. Maybe that's true and most people were there to wind up muslims- doesn't make it okay to react to drawings with violence. People should be able to draw what they like and no religion is exempt from piss taking. Saying otherwise is right up there with logic that women who dress with little clothes were asking for the rape.

BTW Do the anarchists get kudos from the feminists for shouting "pussies" at the rally people? :confused:

[Rafiq]

American anti-fascists are so much more soft than their European counter-parts because our Fascist here, who are pathologically identical in every way, have no history of affiliation with the swastika.

Now in this case the lines are blurred. Of course we need to be vigilantly anti-Islamist, but Islamism virtually has no power in Phoenix, Arizona. In addition, the basis for anti-Islamism in action must have its basis in the (former) Muslim working class, because again we are anti-Islamists in that we regard Islamists as rivals - while we can engage in anti-Islamism through various means, the connotations of going to a mosque, or a Muslim community center in this manner is obviously thoroughly racist. The only meaningfully useful counter-protest (Unless you can muster enough people to counter-act the physical strength of the reactionaries) would be to in turn rather than oppose the drawings of Muhammad, turn the tables and somehow desecrate upon what is holy and good to the American right.

Where are the burning confederate flags? Aggravate the reactionaries to such a point where they are indistinguishable from the reactionary Muslims. This so-called clash of cultures is a damned sham. They attempt to obfuscate the coordinates of struggle not because these muslims actually are of any consequence, but because it unifies a demographic in such a way as to divert the internal problems within it, those same problems which largely give them the energy to go outside and vent their anger. Only by counter-acting them in this manner can these internal contradictions be wrought out and made bare.

[Rafiq]

Why should we care though?

Islam is just as reactionary as the right wingers. Why not stick up for something that isn't against many basic human rights for so much of the population instead? The rally people were there to draw muhammed etc. They didn't start any violence at the last rally or this one.


This isn't a problem in itself, it is the fact that those attending the rally, from what we see, are not honest people committed to "free speech" or whatever you want, but members of the American right, tea partiers and other degenerates. Hardly people who believe in the sanctity of "free speech" on a universal level, and if you don't believe me see how long you'll last there if you start burning American flags.

The point is that the connotations here were undoubtedly an act of racism. Indeed, fuck Islam, it is a vile and disgusting religion - but we only say this because it perpetuates the slavery of the working people of Muslim communities and countries. Why are these people protesting? As racists, as reactionaries. Muslim reactionaries should be given no mercy, but neither should any of the degenerates. There wasn't to my knowledge an Islamist counter-protest, so the only duty for antifa is to drive out the reactionaries wherever they make themselves public. And remember that I thoroughly believe in Europe and wherever it is possible, antifa should organize a counter-offense against ANY Islamist gathering.

[Zoop]

A bunch of patriotic, anti-Islam protesters managed to mobilise in public and hold a demonstration without one of them having their teeth kicked down their throat?

What a let-down.

[RA89]

Those are fair points Rafiq and I can't disagree with them.

But where would a justified and genuine anti-Islamism rally take place- and who would lead/go?

[Rafiq]

But where would a justified and genuine anti-Islamism rally take place- and who would lead/go?

A rally is absolutely pointless without a real context. One example I could think of would be the Gezi Park protests that occurred in Turkey, i.e. against Erdogan's Islamization. But Islamism is only a problem in the west insofar as it targets the Muslim working class, stricken with poverty and cultural isolation. These are issues only a working class movement could address. One example I could think of is how in Greece, I am willing to bet most of the immigrant Muslim population voted for Syriza. This already creates a rift between the reactionary Islamists and the immediate interests of the working people in muslim communities.

[Fourth Internationalist]

Those are fair points Rafiq and I can't disagree with them.

But where would a justified and genuine anti-Islamism rally take place- and who would lead/go?

If such a rally were to occur (in America), it would need to be primarily targeted at the American ruling class where the goal would be to explain how U.S. imperialism works in fueling Islamism, pointing out that the American ruling class is the American workers' number one enemy, not Islamism.

An example of this type of explanation, where the American ruling class is explained to be the largest enemy of the American working class, is an article titled, Behind the Terror Attacks Stands Bloody U.S. Imperialism (http://www.lrp-cofi.org/archive/terror.html). It talks about the September 11th attacks (posted two days after on September 13, 2001) and points out that the reason behind Islamic attacks like 9/11 lies U.S. imperialism. This is the sort of message that needs to be included in every conversation about Islamism.

[BIXX]

Why should we care though?

Islam is just as reactionary as the right wingers.

While I admit I understand nowhere near enough about Islam, I am willing to guarantee you this statement is wrong.

[Sewer Socialist]

I am trying to imagine a bunch of leftists turning a event like this into some sort of witchcraft-free-speech-and-sodomy event, where Confederate and American flags are ritualistically burned amidst some kind of orgy. That sounds like more fun than any rally I've heard of.

[RA89]

While I admit I understand nowhere near enough about Islam, I am willing to guarantee you this statement is wrong.

No. I'm not saying that all Muslims are bad, but Islam is atrocious in terms of human rights of women and non-muslims.

It takes very imaginative and/or downright deceitful translations of the Quran/Hadith to make them remotely tolerant. I'm also not saying you can't find similar hate in texts such as the Bible, but I'm not here to defend any religion.

Any Islamic apostate will tell you the same thing. Arab speaking apostates are the best to explain things as they can't be fooled with mistranslations (unless you can be bothered to learn classical Arabic and read everything yourself).

[Comrade Jacob]

Just more reactionary low-lives hating on people because of how they choose to worship the same fucking god.

[Bee]

We of course must oppose the religious fundamentalism of Islamic sects but that doesn't justify the jingoism, racism and xenophobia displayed by the political right at this rally (in the same manner as it doesn't justify American imperialism or Israel apartheid).
Any progressive, radical or otherwise left-wing Muslim or Islam group has my full support and solidarity.

[cal3bg]

Why should we care though?

Islam is just as reactionary as the right wingers. Why not stick up for something that isn't against many basic human rights for so much of the population instead? The rally people were there to draw muhammed etc. They didn't start any violence at the last rally or this one.

There would be trouble only if the muslims responded violently just like the last time. And I don't want to hear some bullshit like the rally goers started trouble by doing the offensive drawings. Maybe that's true and most people were there to wind up muslims- doesn't make it okay to react to drawings with violence. People should be able to draw what they like and no religion is exempt from piss taking. Saying otherwise is right up there with logic that women who dress with little clothes were asking for the rape.

BTW Do the anarchists get kudos from the feminists for shouting "pussies" at the rally people? :confused:


Considering that Muslims are an oppressed and vilified community in these United States, I find it is my business to "care". Believe it or not they are, like leftists, in the crosshairs of imperialism these days so it is only logical that these right-won't crazies be told how truly ignorant and misinformed they are. And btw why would they bring guns to the mosque when the members of that mosque, including very young children, had nothing whatsoever with the attack on the "draw Muhammad" cartoon contest?


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