North Korea, communist?!

[etiennel]

Good day comrades, I have an inquiry about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

This is not a post asking to prove that North Korea isn't evil and Kim Jong isn't doing this that or the other, as Jason Unruhe does on youtube. There is no way of convincing people that North Korea is not like this (concentration camps, people starving, etc etc.) My question is how you would go about explaining that, by most peoples view of North Korea, with everyone on concentration camps, that this is in fact far from communism or socialism.

Thank you.

[Q]

You do that by explaining what communism actually is.

[etiennel]

I know this sounded like a stupid question, sorry, I just wanted to make a few threads to figure out how this site works.

[Guardia Rossa]

Honestly? I don't know. There is not one good unbiased source on that matter.

But if we are going to discuss about the Officer who was killed by a barrage of AA fire while riding a unicorn in a concentration camp and resurrected after 3 days, let me eat some childs first cuz i'm dying of hunger ;)

[Alet]

You do that by explaining what communism actually is.

I don't even think that would help. Communism sounds really utopian, I would just suggest that you avoid these people.

[oli]

Good day comrades, I have an inquiry about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

This is not a post asking to prove that North Korea isn't evil and Kim Jong isn't doing this that or the other, as Jason Unruhe does on youtube. There is no way of convincing people that North Korea is not like this (concentration camps, people starving, etc etc.) My question is how you would go about explaining that, by most peoples view of North Korea, with everyone on concentration camps, that this is in fact far from communism or socialism.

Thank you.

Juche,the official ideology of the DPRK, is a far right populist framework for a highly-militarized totalitarian society based on racism, xenophobia and monarchical dictatorship governance. Ignoring the symbols and rhetoric (although they formally denounce European Marxism), the ideology of Juche and the way it has manifested itself in DPRK through ethnic nationalism and familial culture seems to be based more on colonial influences from Imperial Japan than Marxist theory, of which little can be found in DPRK.'

Korean ethnic nationalism is a large part of Korean culture in both the North and the South (your article already gives some examples of the prevalent racism in South Korean society). As I've said, it largely emerged as a result of Imperial Japanese influence in 1905. Bryan Reynolds Myers outlines how racism (Imperial Japanese influence such as familism and tradition) guides the Juche ideology in his book The Cleanest Race; a black Cuban diplomat was almost lynched by a mob when he took his family to Pyongyang, women who have mixed race children are forced to have abortions etc.

Perhaps more importantly, the fundamental ideological structure of Juche can be seen to be based on racism (or at least some form of xenophobia) rather than communism. There is no mention of communism in the North Korean constitution, nor is there any attempt to implement socialism in any way. On the other hand DPRK frequently attacks 'Americans' and 'Western countries' in it's propaganda campaigns (a communist would make a distinction between bourgeois Americans and proletarians). There is much pro-unification propaganda in the North, with an emphasis on ridding the South from foreign domination to unite the ethnic nation of Korea; not free it's worker's from capitalism.

At the end of the day, a communist society is one which is stateless, moneyless and classless, where the means of production are owned collectively by the community and are operated for need not profit, and where goods are distributed from each according to his ability to each according to his own. In the DPRK none of these criteria are met, and you could very easily go through each one and show this!

[oli]

Good day comrades, I have an inquiry about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

This is not a post asking to prove that North Korea isn't evil and Kim Jong isn't doing this that or the other, as Jason Unruhe does on youtube. There is no way of convincing people that North Korea is not like this (concentration camps, people starving, etc etc.) My question is how you would go about explaining that, by most peoples view of North Korea, with everyone on concentration camps, that this is in fact far from communism or socialism.

Thank you.

Juche,the official ideology of the DPRK, is a far right populist framework for a highly-militarized totalitarian society based on racism, xenophobia and monarchical dictatorship governance. Ignoring the symbols and rhetoric (although they formally denounce European Marxism), the ideology of Juche and the way it has manifested itself in DPRK through ethnic nationalism and familial culture seems to be based more on colonial influences from Imperial Japan than Marxist theory, of which little can be found in DPRK.'

Korean ethnic nationalism is a large part of Korean culture in both the North and the South (your article already gives some examples of the prevalent racism in South Korean society). As I've said, it largely emerged as a result of Imperial Japanese influence in 1905. Bryan Reynolds Myers outlines how racism (Imperial Japanese influence such as familism and tradition) guides the Juche ideology in his book The Cleanest Race; a black Cuban diplomat was almost lynched by a mob when he took his family to Pyongyang, women who have mixed race children are forced to have abortions etc.

Perhaps more importantly, the fundamental ideological structure of Juche can be seen to be based on racism (or at least some form of xenophobia) rather than communism. There is no mention of communism in the North Korean constitution, nor is there any attempt to implement socialism in any way. On the other hand DPRK frequently attacks 'Americans' and 'Western countries' in it's propaganda campaigns (a communist would make a distinction between bourgeois Americans and proletarians). There is much pro-unification propaganda in the North, with an emphasis on ridding the South from foreign domination to unite the ethnic nation of Korea; not free it's worker's from capitalism.

At the end of the day, a communist society is one which is stateless, moneyless and classless, where the means of production are owned collectively by the community and are operated for need not profit, and where goods are distributed from each according to his ability to each according to his own. In the DPRK none of these criteria are met, and you could very easily go through each one and show this!

[John Nada]

Who invented the concentration camp? The imperialist capitalist countries, Britain during the Second Boer War and the US during the Philippine-American war, later used for the Holocaust by the very much capitalist Nazi Germany. Which country has the most prison camps? Capitalist USA, who killed millions of Koreans and happens to have troops amassed by the not-communist(which has to be global, without classes or states) DPRK.

[JayBro47]

3rd Son in a Monarchy. Maybe "nepostic-autocracy"?

[G4b3n]

Who invented the concentration camp? The imperialist capitalist countries, Britain during the Second Boer War and the US during the Philippine-American war, later used for the Holocaust by the very much capitalist Nazi Germany. Which country has the most prison camps? Capitalist USA, who killed millions of Koreans and happens to have troops amassed by the not-communist(which has to be global, without classes or states) DPRK.

The whole "they were not statless therefore nothing to do with communism" is a pretty bad cop out. You can make arguments about how they failed in applying communiat principles, i.e., the route by which communism can be achieved but the revolutionary projects of the 20th century certainly had a lot to do with communism.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

My question is how you would go about explaining that, by most peoples view of North Korea, with everyone on concentration camps, that this is in fact far from communism or socialism.
Good question, I wish I had an answer. It's difficult when so many people understand communism only through the distorted lens of an exaggerated Stalinism, and aren't willing to be convinced otherwise.

[tuwix]

My question is how you would go about explaining that, by most peoples view of North Korea, with everyone on concentration camps, that this is in fact far from communism or socialism.


By patient explication what socialism and communism is.

[etiennel]

Great answer thank you

[toothpick]

I am new to understanding communism, but what I believe a communist state would look like is completely different than what I see in North Korea.

Is tyranny absolutely mandatory for a "communist state" to exist? My initial understanding of what communism is, is very clouded by Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany. Why does a dictatorship always seem to thrive in the communist state?

[John Nada]

The whole "they were not statless therefore nothing to do with communism" is a pretty bad cop out. You can make arguments about how they failed in applying communiat principles, i.e., the route by which communism can be achieved but the revolutionary projects of the 20th century certainly had a lot to do with communism.It kind of is a cop out, but true. I didn't claim north Korea has nothing to do with 20th century Communist(capital C) movement. Before this Juche shit, Korea did have a radical tradition, with Marxists and even anarchist. One of the first Korean Communists, Alexandra Kim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Kim), was a Bolshevik who died fighting for the Russian Revolution. It's just a lot of people think communism=states ran by Communist Parties, and this is the end goal of reaching communism/socialism. The way all these attempts at socialist construction turned out, is common viewed by the layperson unfamiliar with Marxism as the final goal of achieving communism. I don't think even north Koreans claim they've achieved full communism.

[Guardia Rossa]

I'm rather neutral on the issue but KIM IS NOT THE LEADER
He is the Marshall of the army and that position culturally passes from father to son.
He is just really popular around there.

[Comrade Jacob]

I am new to understanding communism, but what I believe a communist state would look like is completely different than what I see in North Korea.

Is tyranny absolutely mandatory for a "communist state" to exist? My initial understanding of what communism is, is very clouded by Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany. Why does a dictatorship always seem to thrive in the communist state?

Things in the DPRK aren't as bad as the media like to make out.
As for the DPRK "being" communist, I think it has problems but what do you expect from a besieged nation? I believe Kim Jong Un has done incredible things for the DPRK and I am not ashamed to say I support the DPRK!

I'm not trying to be edgy, this is my opinion.

[Invader Zim]

Who invented the concentration camp? The imperialist capitalist countries, Britain during the Second Boer War and the US during the Philippine-American war, later used for the Holocaust by the very much capitalist Nazi Germany. Which country has the most prison camps? Capitalist USA, who killed millions of Koreans and happens to have troops amassed by the not-communist(which has to be global, without classes or states) DPRK.

A slight correction, the term concentration camp comes from their application by the the British in the Second Boer War, but they were also used in the 10 Years War in the 1860s/70s by the Spanish.

[G4b3n]

Things in the DPRK aren't as bad as the media like to make out.
As for the DPRK "being" communist, I think it has problems but what do you expect from a besieged nation? I believe Kim Jong Un has done incredible things for the DPRK and I am not ashamed to say I support the DPRK!

I'm not trying to be edgy, this is my opinion.

But why is that your opinion?
Can you point to anything tangible that shows even the slightest sign of workers' control or that the rank and file worker has a say in anything?
Imperialist exploitation isn't an excuse to establish a nepotistic regime that stands higher above the working class than even the western bourgeoisie.

[Viktor89]

DPRK is not socialist, it is elitist, it has a sort of class system, or more like caste system, and their propaganda is sometimes extremely racist.