socialist party (England and Wales) revolutionary?

[the Red bear]

What are your opinions on the Socialist Party? Are they revolutionary or reformist?

[RedWorker]

They are undoubtedly reformist at least to some degree (see, for example, TUSC). I don't know if they are revolutionary at all. I think the best parties in Britain are, at least as far as theory is concerned, CPGB(PCC) and SPGB.

[Q]

I was a member of the Dutch affiliate of the SPEW for about eight years. They're a Trotskyist group with a long background in the Labour Party (in their previous incarnation as Militant). As such, you need to understand that in their programmatic thinking they're guided by Trotsky's 'transitional method' which, in a nutshell, aims to radicalise workers by ever escalating demands, so they will start to take socialist conclusions.

In practice this amounts to 'connecting to existing consciousness'. Now, existing consciousness is reformist and mainly trade unionist. So, the demands SPEW raises follow that. When you raise this point, SPEW members will likely comment that their underlying method is actually revolutionary, as it aims to radicalise workers, but this has two main issues: First, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... The workers movement hasn't been overtly revolutionary in a very long time and inevitably sticking to this sort of programme has an impact on the SPEW membership which often takes trade unionist demands as revolutionary and at face value. You could make the argumet that the SPEW cadre then holds the real reigns of revolutionary insight, only to bring it out at the right time. This raises the second issue, which is that it is a hidden method. Instead of trying to educate workers, SPEW ends up trying to recruit as many people as it can (which isn't much) in order to educate them in this 'transitional method'. It also ends up banning public disagreements, as this would only 'confuse' workers in their view.

This kind of programmatic thinking then is very much problematic. The older Marxist movement, in the late 19th, early 20th century at least had an explicit revolutionary programme, one that amounted to ending the current state and with political hegemony of the working class. Internally SPEW members will very much agree with all of this, but on the streets they will solely campaign for economistic and trade unionist demands. Making them appear very 'reformist'.

Then again, other groups have other issues. There are no perfect groups around. SPEW consists of many dedicated comrades and if you have a group in your area and find working with them productive, you might consider joining the group, if it helps you.

[the Red bear]

I recently met with my local branch and they seem to have revolutionary insight and are active in agitating and organising, but whether this is just due to the militancy of the mood in the left in Britain at the moment due to the tory victory I don't know

[G4b3n]

I recently met with my local branch and they seem to have revolutionary insight and are active in agitating and organising, but whether this is just due to the militancy of the mood in the left in Britain at the moment due to the tory victory I don't know

A tory victory doesn't make for radicalized liberals, it makes for pissed off liberals. So I would take it for what it seems.

[etiennel]

I think the SPGB is a pretty good ideological party.

[Q]

They are undoubtedly reformist at least to some degree (see, for example, TUSC). I don't know if they are revolutionary at all. I think the best parties in Britain are, at least as far as theory is concerned, CPGB(PCC) and SPGB.


I think the SPGB is a pretty good ideological party.
Please avoid such replies as, especially in the UK, there's a wide plethora of leftist groups and such posts will trigger that, actually, "xyz is way better", which are useless wastes of time to be frank and can only escalate from bad to worse.

[Comrade Jacob]

They have good intentions at least.

[redtux]

Well the SPGB have achieved precisely zero in over a hundred years

[Q]

Well the SPGB have achieved precisely zero in over a hundred years
Fortunately we have the great success of the rest of the far left contrasting favorably to this.

Oh wait...

[RedWorker]

Fortunately we have the great success of the rest of the far left contrasting favorably to this.

Oh wait...

While one could agree with part of the sentiment behind this message, literally it is absurd. Who could argue with a straight face that the SPGB has had the same success as the CNT in Spain, or of the Bolsheviks in Russia?

There certainly is some truth to the statement that the SPGB is little involved in taking "real action".

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Wrong question. Rather than trying to divide the world up into the 'saved' revolutionaries and the 'damned' reformists, think about their potential and effectiveness.

Arguably SPEW, along with the rest of the Leninist parties of the left, are ineffective and have little potential to foment organisation and consciousness amongst the working class.

[The Idler]

Well the SPGB have achieved precisely zero in over a hundred years
Surviving over a hundred years is more than most groups manage. Printing a monthly revolutionary journal uninterrupted through bans and two world wars is quite an achievement. Then you have contesting elections, supporting international companion parties, putting together pamphlets etc ...

[Hit The North]

I think the best parties in Britain are, at least as far as theory is concerned, CPGB(PCC) and SPGB.

But if theory is judged on the basis of practice, neither of these organisations have a credible theory. Surviving as a marginal and small sect for a hundred years is no indicator of good revolutionary theory or practice.

[The Idler]

But if theory is judged on the basis of practice, neither of these organisations have a credible theory. Surviving as a marginal and small sect for a hundred years is no indicator of good revolutionary theory or practice.
If you don't think they practice their theory, it doesn't sound like you understand their theory. In any case, the SPGB aren't small, they contested the general election 2015 and the Euro election in 2014. Neither are they sectarian, they engage in a great deal more public debates with non-party members than any other party, all their meetings including business meetings are open to the public, they actually state 'all welcome' on many meetings, and they've had open internet discussion forums for over a decade. Other parties have never had open internet discussion forums or sought to clamp down on any unofficial ones. You need to get over your grudge against the SPGB.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

as far as i know most of their activity involves producing huge amounts of leaflets nobody will read and handing them out on street corners with a loudhailer.

[Hit The North]

If you don't think they practice their theory, it doesn't sound like you understand their theory. In any case, the SPGB aren't small, they contested the general election 2015 and the Euro election in 2014. Neither are they sectarian, they engage in a great deal more public debates with non-party members than any other party, all their meetings including business meetings are open to the public, they actually state 'all welcome' on many meetings, and they've had open internet discussion forums for over a decade. Other parties have never had open internet discussion forums or sought to clamp down on any unofficial ones. You need to get over your grudge against the SPGB.

Well I guess calling them a sect is a bit pejorative but I don't have a grudge against the SPGB, in fact they don't impinge on my life in any way whatsoever (in line, no doubt, with their political practice). I'm objecting to the idea that they have some theory superior to any other socialist group. Anyway, I didn't say they didn't practice their theory, only that if they do it says something (not good) about how effective the theory is.

[The Idler]

Well I guess calling them a sect is a bit pejorative but I don't have a grudge against the SPGB, in fact they don't impinge on my life in any way whatsoever (in line, no doubt, with their political practice). I'm objecting to the idea that they have some theory superior to any other socialist group. Anyway, I didn't say they didn't practice their theory, only that if they do it says something (not good) about how effective the theory is.
Well the political practice isn't about impinging on your life per se (unless you are member of the ruling-class). The SPGB practice the theory of openly publishing their views, their aims, with a manifesto of the party and disdaining to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions as per the Communist Manifesto.