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Palmares
27th April 2015, 14:24
China rates its own citizens - including online behaviour

The Chinese government is currently implementing a nationwide electronic system, called the Social Credit System, attributing to each of its 1,3 billion citizens a score for his or her behavior. The system will be based on various criteria, ranging from financial credibility and criminal record to social media behavior. From 2020 onwards each adult citizen should, besides his identity card, have such a credit code.
Door: Fokke Obbema, Marije Vlaskamp, Michael Persson 25 april 2015, 09:00 209

On the labour market you might need a certain score to get a specific job
Rogier Creemers explains the potential influence of the system

The regulations were announced last year, but have attracted almost no attention thus far in China and abroad. This week Rogier Creemers, a Belgian China-specialist at Oxford University, published a comprehensive translation of the regulations regarding the Social Credit System (https://chinacopyrightandmedia.wordpress.com/2014/06/14/planning-outline-for-the-construction-of-a-social-credit-system-2014-2020/), which clarifies the scope of the system. In an interview with Dutch newspaper de Volkskrant he says: 'With the help of the latest internet technologies the government wants to exercise individual surveillance'.

In his view this surveillance will have a wider scope than was the case under the former East German system: 'The German aim was limited to avoiding a revolt against the regime. The Chinese aim is far more ambitious: it is clearly an attempt to create a new citizen.'

The intentions of the new system are not only economical, fighting fraudulent practices, but also moral. 'This is a deliberate effort by the Chinese government to promote among its citizens "socialist core values" such as patriotism, respecting the elderly, working hard and avoiding extravagant consumption', says Creemers. A bad 'credit code' can result in being not eligible for certain jobs, housing or credit to start a company. 'On the labour market you might need a certain score to get a specific job.'

When people's behavior isn't bound by their morality, a system must be used to restrict their actions
Explanation of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences


Very ambitous


It's Amazon's consumer tracking with an Orwellian political twist
Johan Lagerkvist, Chinese internet specialist at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs

Johan Lagerkvist, a Chinese internet specialist at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs, agrees the system is 'very ambitious in both depth and scope, including scrutinizing individual behavior and what books people read. It's Amazon's consumer tracking with an Orwellian political twist.'

In Hong Kong a spokesperson of Human Right Watch China, Maya Wang, sees 'a scary vision of the future' in the system: 'Currently there is intensive surveillance of "sensitive groups, such as dissidents, but the social credit system goes to another level. This is an effort of surveillance of all people'.

Lagerkvist questions whether the system can be put into practice easily. 'Implementation may prove tricky, due to agency turf wars and reluctance of companies to fully comply. But it is an open question, it depends how much firepower the government will give the implementation effort.'

No doubt who is in command


Government and big internet companies in China can exploit 'Big Data' together in a way that is unimaginable in the West
Rogier Creemers
http://vkphotoprovider2.vk-cdn.nl/photoprovider/artikel/5/14/14/cbbc0bdb1929e180ee2e8c1a403cd996/2942459/610x2048/2942459.jpeg 'Big brother in China' © Thijs Balder

The German China-expert Daniela Stockmann, political scientist at Leiden University, esteems Chinese internet firms will be reluctant, as they 'are aware of privacy concerns of their users. And also they struggle with their infrastructure to process huge amounts of data.'

But Creemers is convinced Chinese Internet giants like Alibaba, Baidu and Tencent will cooperate with the government in operating the system. These companies are 'in a symbiotic relationship with the government', he argues. Wheras in the US companies like Google or Facebook show themselves fighting for the privacy of their clients against the preying eyes of intelligence agencies, in China this is not the case. There is no doubt among key players who is in command. 'Government and big internet companies in China can exploit 'Big Data' together in a way that is unimaginable in the West', says Creemers.

Playing videogames versus buying diapers


This is the most staggering, publicly announced, scaled use of big data I've ever seen
Michael Fertik, Silicon Valley entrepreneur and author of The Reputation Economy

Chinese internet firms are definitely interested, as Ant Financial, a subsidiary of ecommercegiant Alibaba, recently showed. To its popular app Alipay it added a new service which rated a person's credit worthiness on a scale of 350 to 950 points. This score is not only determined by one's lending behavior, but also by hobbies and friends. If friends have a poor lending reputation, this reflects badly on the person, just as prolonged playing of video games. Buying diapers indicates responsibility and scores therefore well.

In the Chinese press the system has been presented as rather limited focusing mostly on financial credibility. But Creemers' study shows the government wants to evaluate behavior of its citizens in various other areas as well, with the aim of 'strengthening and innovating social governance', according to the government. Innovative will be the active contribution of citizens rating other citizens. 'Imagine a Chinese person being able to rate his doctor or his professor, as is already happening in the US. And he or she might also give a bad score to polluting companies, as the system will be applied to companies and institutions as well', says Creemers.

Creditworthiness


Especially given the speed of the digital economy it is crucial that people can quickly verify each others creditworthiness
Wang Shuqin, who is working on the new system

The far reaching scope of the system is confirmed by an explanation on the website of the scientific institute CASS (Chinese Academy of Social Sciences). As a result of its transformation in recent decades Chinese society has changed 'from a society of acquaintances into a society of strangers'. As a result moral conduct has suffered: 'When people's behavior isn't bound by their morality, a system must be used to restrict their actions'. Therefore it is time for the 'Social Credit System', which covers 'four major fields: politics, business, society and justice.'

According to professor Wang Shuqin, who is working on the new system, the mechanism for establishing financial creditworthiness, is practically ready to be put in practice. Without such a mechanism doing business in China is risky, she stresses, as about half of the signed contracts are not kept. 'Especially given the speed of the digital economy it is crucial that people can quickly verify each other's creditworthiness.' Adding non-financial factors to the system, like the 'socialist core values', she regards as a bonus: 'The behavior of the majority is determined by their world of thoughts. A person who believes in socialist core values, is behaving more decent.'

'This is the most staggering, publicly announced, scaled use of big data I've ever seen', says Michael Fertik, a Silicon Valley entrepreneur and author of The Reputation Economy. 'It certainly feels about as Orwellian as your nightmares would have it be. On the other hand, it is probably a fairly inevitable evolution - an updated, Big Data version - of the longstanding Communist Party's grading of China's citizens. It's exactly what any Command state would like to do with data.'


http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/china-rates-its-own-citizens-including-online-behaviour~a3979668/?mc_cid=58f07aeaf0&mc_eid=11145f6c1c

Ele'ill
27th April 2015, 14:35
I want to see who China's worst citizens are

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
27th April 2015, 14:59
And make them fight to the death in the arena

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
27th April 2015, 15:05
This is like an evil version of down and out in the magic kingdom. Its set in a post scarcity future where people use 'wuffie' as a kind of social currency. People give you wuffie if you do something nice or useful for them and if you don't have any everyone just assumes you're a dick and they avoid you.

Tim Cornelis
27th April 2015, 15:34
Why is the Volkskrant publishing in English? :confused:

Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages
27th April 2015, 16:18
Maybe this type of story gets more traction with English speaking audiences.

Palmares
27th April 2015, 17:14
Why is the Volkskrant publishing in English? :confused:

When I was first given the link and viewed it, I thought, "I don't read Dutch..."

But then the article wasn't, just the website itself. I kind of wonder how the American who linked it to me even found this article themselves...

Palmares
28th April 2015, 06:52
I want to see who China's worst citizens are

You and the Chinese Communist Party have something in common...

Mr. Piccolo
28th April 2015, 08:55
Some of the individuals in this piece seem to view this abuse of Big Data as somehow a feature of socialist countries. It is part of the rotten legacy of communism and the command economy in China that remains despite the introduction of capitalism since Deng.

While there may be some truth in this, are Western capitalist countries and private companies that much different? Just putting aside Western governments spying on their own citizens, what about employers that look at people's social media to judge whether to hire or fire them?

I know the standard reply is that people who put their private lives online have no expectation of privacy, especially from private actors, but the fact that your boss wants to know what you are doing in your private life, and will perhaps punish you if he sees things he does not like, is evidence that even Western workers effectively live under the thumb of private lords (capitalists).

John Nada
28th April 2015, 12:04
There's clauses on privacy:
Perfect legal and regulatory systems for credit. Move credit legislation work forward, ensure there are laws to rely on for credit information collection, consulting, use, exchange and interaction, credit information security, the protection of subjects’ rights and interests, etc. Publish supplementary rules and implementation regulations for the “Credit Investigation Management Regulations, establish systems to process objections, handle complaints and punish liability for infringement.
Establish categorized credit information management systems. Formulate credit information catalogues, determine the categories of credit information, according to the attributes of credit information, and in integration with the protection of personal privacy and commercial secrets, move categorized management of credit information forward according to the law, in segments such as collection, sharing, use, openness, etc. Enhance investigation and prosecution of the sale of personal privacy and commercial secrets.
Complete protection mechanisms for the rights and interests of information credit subjects. Fully give rein to the role of administrative supervision, sectoral self-discipline and social supervision in protecting the rights and individuals of credit information subjects, comprehensively use legal, economic, administrative and other such measures to realistically protect the rights and interests of credit information subjects. Strengthen guidance and education of credit information subjects, incessantly strengthen their consciousness about upholding their own lawful rights and interests.It's a law on a credit bureau, consumer and environment protection, and anti-fraud/corruption/malpractice/libel. They likely don't give a fuck how much anyone spends buying diapers or how long they play video games. That sinister "Social Credit Code" seems to be the equivalent of the US Social Security, for pensions and welfare. It's some basic shit that I'm surprised they don't have already.

One of China's problems is it's a wild west on regulations since the restoration of capitalism(which in itself is bad). Consumers and capitalists want some standards so people can trust Chinese products. A lot of shit is made in China, but how many Chinese brands can you think of? Even Chinese people trust American products more. Counterfeiting, corruption, diploma mills, adulteration, fraudulent products, shadow banking and fraud are big problems. This is essentially about consumer protection and credit scores. This law is capitalist to the max, in spite of what the Dengist say so as not to look like liberals. The US already has a lot of this shit since forever, even the shit the article accuses the law of being about:lol:.

I wonder who pay these "China experts"? Did anyone read it? I mean the "experts" in the article. It's like they saw the "S" word and just shut down.