Why are some people sick

[Mclaren]

Why have some people posted back on my topics of what should be built instead of the world trade towers as if they deserved it.

Why do you see it as it was comming. Its not about capaitlaism v commuinsm or whatever Its about people jumping and dieing rather than being burnt because they do't want to die that way. Its about children not having a mum or a dad. Its got nothing about politics its a diaster. Terroism isint the way. Its a low form its scum. Its not the way. No dad or mum for christmas. People above the plane crash being stuck an nowing that they would die. The fire services knowing that they can't put the fires out. If you think that america deserves to have thousands of innocent people dieing and ther only crime being go out and doing ther job living in the country and new york then maybe you should die. You can't jusify people dieng because the country deservies it.

[DaNatural]

McLaren, I dont agree with you most of the time but your right about this. Many people on this board seem to confuse innocent citizens with montstrous evil politicians. They hold the same logic that Ramzi Yousef and Bin Laden have. If your a citizen and pay taxes to an evil government your guilty. Its the stupidest logic in the world but it appears that way. Some people on here even sympathize with Palestinian suicide bombers, some go as far as saying its justified which its not. This isnt meant to attack people on this board but many of you like myself are young, younger then i am, and are just pissed off. McLaren their knowledge of theory and of action is limited. So what can you expect when u got a bunch of pissed of teenagers in most cases. Through knowledge comes wisdom and understanding, and until these so called "revolutionists" attain some, you will hear idiotic, disrespectful comments like what you heard on your previous post. I say build a memorial, all the names of the people and their job. So people can see that all types of people died, not just high ranking business men. Peace

[revolutionary spirit]

yeah it's a ***** of a thing but it's no worse than some of the things America has done in the past,like 3 million civilans in vietnam,this time america was the victim but usually it's the attacker,and what is it the victim of?It's the victim of it's own deeds but no no one deserves to die like in the wtc just like no one deserves to die by a misguided bomb like the innocent afghan civilans killed by american bombing

[Dreadnaht1]

Now, I don't want to sound like a complete asshole here but I'm going to anyway. I realize thery're are alot of peope out there without loved ones, one of my very close friends did lose his mother, but technically those people weren't innocent. Most of them were civilians, yes, and it's debatable wether it's acceptable to kill a civilian in a time of war but they also worked for a massive, multi-billion, if not trillion dollar; international corporation. As for wether I'd count that as making someone innocent or guilty is a blurred line but I'd lean towards the guilty side. My mother works for a company like that and I do count her as guilty.

And yes, I do believe it was coming. It was about time that someone finally reacted to U$A's capitalist screw-overs. And while it was in a negative way, it was still a reaction. One way or another U$A caused this. A clean country that didn't interfere with other nations wouldn't get a massive display of discontent from a foreign nation.

"If you think that america deserves to have thousands of innocent people dieing and there only crime being going out and doing ther job living in the country and new york then maybe you should die. You can't jusify people dieng because the country deservies it."

Maybe some people can justify it. Should they die? That's a good question. Any American would say yes in the blink of an eye. But we after all did kill thousands--if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people in their foreign nation and sentence the rest to live under opression.

Sorry to be a bit of an asshole.

-Dread

[booga]

dread if your right..(heehee)( opps there i go with that word, sorry)...if your correcto that america is in war in its own country well lets face it countries have wars in their own ground all the time...why should we be so alarmed that it happens here?

yes people die; good and bad for some it is inevitable so why is it so hard for us as people to get along in such the short life that we are given?

and dread i had many corporate jobs and at one time i thought my dream was to get to the top which i knew i could easily do but then if your dream is to chase money and status then your screwed. i guess you just have to know your position in life and find that it fullfills the vapor of which we exist. dont be so hard on your mother, corporations are good to the working class, better than most jobs...they are thinking just like us what is the better way for the people...yes dread they are im sure they are, they must.

this capitalist existance could fall especially if we are in a war in our own land. the people we have trained to wave their flag and boast american pride (pride is not a good thing to have sometimes) :( need to be sustained by the economy; as long as the greedy needs are fed everything will be cool but if that should collapse. oh my :(

[Imperial Power]

Dread you are one of the dumbest people in this community I have to assume. Your ignorance flows like water. You say the innocent victims of the WTC are "guilty." Guilty of what, going to work, supporting their families, and bettering their quality of life. You think anyone with a higher standard of life than you is your enemy. Instead of being mad at everyone and calling for a "revolution" why don't you try to succeed in capitalism. You use communism to make yourself feel better about your own misfortune. In fact all of you are drawn to the communism ideal by a psychological depression for wanting to be equal becasue of your own inadequacies.

[I Will Deny You]

Dread--
Yes, it should have been expected. The US government was even expecting it, they just either had no idea what to do about it or no incentive to do anything. But even if the people who died were "guilty," that certainly doesn't mean they deserved to die. A lot of the people who died were firefighters--they worked for the US government, yes, but they saved lives. Plenty of people who died were also janitors, receptionists, etc. and many of them were union members. None of them deserved what happened to them, just like no civilians in Iraq deserve to starve. A lot of serious debates have become top priority after September 11, and if the left, especially the far left, wants to win, we will have to show that we are the most rational (among other things). I'm not saying you should hold yourself back, but everyone is emotional about the topics being discussed everywhere from Meet the Press to Hell's Kitchen subway stations, so whoever keeps uses calmest voice will come out looking the most mature.

I'm not currently employed by the US government, but I'm studying to be a teacher. I plan to work in public schools in SW Washington, D.C. which will mean that I will be employed by the "U$A," but you know what? I'll be a member of a union, hoping to pressure the United States in abandoning its undeniable love of huge multinationals and beginning to care about its working class again. Good teachers are what can save inner city schools from privatization. Aside from that, I'll be giving up what may or may not be a promising career as an actress to show kids that it is possible to have a more fulfilling life not where the most money can be earned, but where the biggest difference can be made. Hopefully, with some guidance, the next generation of Americans might be just a tiny bit more caring, charitable and intelligent even if there never is a full-blown revolution. No matter what, the path I chose isn't nearly as brave as the path chosen by firefighters.

While Mclaren pisses me off regularly because I come here for intelligent conversation, seeing his crap at least gives me a little bit of comfort because I know most of the idiots are on the other side. So please, try not to go overboard.

I'm sorry if that sounded meaner than it should have, please realize that I have nothing against you,
A (radical leftist) future employee of the government you hate

[DaNatural]

Imperial Power, your a godamn capitalist but what you said is right in some regards. Marx said, we are a product of our own product. which is true we have to function within a capitalist society, and thats the bottome line. These people who died, like you said, were supporting their families and trying to better themselves and their families life chances. Now you cannot specifically blame those people, you have to blame that society for indoctrinating people with these capitalistic idealogies. They are merely a "product" of mainstream society. However, I disagree with you when you say that the lot of us on here have been drawn to communism due to our own shortcomings. Thats quite the opposite my friend. Through education I have been able to see that we all deserve a fair share. 20% of the population should not be using 80% of its resources. Its ridiculous, and I think the inequalities speak for themselves. Any person who comes to realize this will see that a more equal society, perhaps a communist society is what is best for all people.

Imperial dont make generalizations, and realize that certain people are drawn to certain things for many reasons. But, I must say I'm extremely disapointed to read many of the posts under this heading, I see now why the left is so discredited. Terrorist sympathizers is something one can deal with, but supporters? Were being absurd now. I don't think you guys understand human life and it seems like you take as a joke, a dead body here and dead body there, ah well. But thats bullshit, a life is a life, and noone here is trying to argue which life is more valuable, yes a child in africa dying is sad, as is one dying in a flying bomb. Its the same thing. The people you need to be mad at are the people running the education system, the government who allows these multinationals, etc. If you want to attack someone attack them. But even that wont work, it goes beyong murdering someone in a high position. A cycle has started and the only way to change that is to get people to change and for them to demand change.

This board is going to hell with comments such as the ones above, I hope it shapes up, because the things you so called, "Communists" are saying is no worse than the worst capitalist. P.E.A.C.E.
Positive Energy Applied Correctly Elevates

[koba]

boo woo McLaren i can say the same shit about when the americans bombed hiroshima .... thoulsands of mom and dads dead, futur babies deformed..... the american people voted and elected their rotten government so they deserve it as much as their heads of state do.

[koba]

i agree that no one deserves this, but they were just taking the lives back of the ones who were unjustly taken in the past by Your good ole U$ of A.

pay back time


No such action of killing "innocents" is justifiable but they are understandable and if the Us doesnt get the message after this ....well too bad it will happen again
In a way the people are responsible and in others they aren't.

-koba

[Kez]

i know that 2 wrong do not make a right but....
What about the hundreds of times america has pissed over the civilians of innocent workers abroad? no1 gives a shit
Having said that, it was still a horrendous thing on s11, just as bad as usa did in libya, iraq, cuba, vietnam, yugo .........

comrade kamo

[Derar]

Yeah , why the fuck make it a big deal about all the ppl that died in the WTC , IS IT BECOZ THEY WERE AMERICANS ?????!!!!

no one gived a damn when 1 million child died in iraq in the past years , no one gived a shit when 2600 civilians died in yugoslavia from the bombing or the 3 million ( or god knows how many )in vietnam or other places in the world .....
or the 4000 ( so far ) died in afganistan , and the US officials called it a war casualty ............ then i guess the ones that died in the wtc were war casuality too , war is between 2 forces , isnt it ?!

[I Will Deny You]

"Yeah , why the fuck make it a big deal about all the ppl that died in the WTC , IS IT BECOZ THEY WERE AMERICANS ?????!!!!"

No, Derar, it's because they were humans. I have made an even bigger deal about what's happening in Iraq and I've donated money to humanitarian aid programs that feed children over there. Not only do I give a damn about what happened in Vietnam, but I have spoken with many veterans of the peace movement in the 60's and 70's (including my parents, of course, but unfortunately I never met any of the three on my avatar). I'm not quite a veteran activist yet, seeing as how I am still very far away from turning 25, but I have worked with many and benefit from their insight and advice every day. I was one of the first student organizers at my school when the issues involving Yugoslavia first came up, and I faced a lot of ridicule for it. I opposed the war in Afghanistan (and have written for popular Internet magazines on the subject) from day one. My standpoint is very similar to Howard Zinn's, in that a just cause does not equal a just war.

In addition, I have opposed even the war crimes that were not committed by Americans! A few friends of mine told me about a shelter for Rwandans who just barely escaped death by machete, and I visited them. In high school I was a chapter president of Students for a Free Tibet. I could go on and on, but I don't mean to stress anything more my main point, which is:

One thing I learned from anti-Vietnam activists is that radicals need to take every opportunity they can get to make their point to the mainstream. This is harder than ever because of the "Big Ten" controlling the media (there should be more about that here (http://www.thenation.com)) but in a way, we have more methods than ever of reaching people--the Internet being our #1 most valuable tool. The radicals of the 1960's learned this the hard way, and if you don't believe me, feel free to ask the next Mississippi Freedom Democrat you meet. Because if you are paying attention to the mainstream media over here in The Great Satan, you'll no doubt notice plenty of Americans talking about what a tragedy this is, etc. Many radicals have pointed out that now we know what it's like to live the way most humans do. We can be bitter if we want to, and there's nothing wrong with ranting about how stupid people can be (if you do it sparingly), but it would be beyond idiotic to waste this opportunity to reach out to Joe Average. Instead of saying, "Ha! We told you!" try saying, "Now that you know we're not kidding about humanitarian crises all over the globe, would you finally be willing to donate some time, money, or effort?" Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s writings on agape are by far the best resource when it comes to doing this. I'm afraid we may be wasting the biggest opportunity that we will ever get to make a real difference in this world.