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The Disillusionist
21st April 2015, 05:10
I'm just finishing a little term paper (only 8 pages) on a potential theory of capitalism from an evolutionary perspective, incorporating minor elements of biological evolution but heavily focusing on cultural evolution (through innovation and social learning). I doubt many of you, if anyone, will want to read it, but I thought someone might find it interesting, as it's a bit different from the Marxist perspectives that are so often discussed here. I'm sure I'll get attacked by some traditionalists (if anyone reads it) for posting this, but keep in mind that just because something has possibly developed through the processes of evolution doesn't mean that it is natural or right, or that there aren't better alternatives. And keep in mind that this paper doesn't argue against the Marxist perspective in any way (in fact, I informally adopted a little bit of Marxist theory into it) Also, this is a rough draft, so I'm sure there are still some rough spots, and spots needing citation. So, without further ado, here you go:

Capitalism is a highly complex economic system. Humans have developed all kinds of complex economic systems, but capitalism is particularly interesting because it has gained considerable influence worldwide, and because it is a structure that relies on a unique set of fundamental cultural concepts: the concept of private property, the concept of goods having exchangeable value as “capital,” the concept of economic “competition,” the concepts of wages and wage labor, and the concept of a “market” that determines the value and trade of varying types of capital. Finally, of course, capitalism relies on people to keep it running, as on some level, it is a participatory system.

From a biological and evolutionary viewpoint, capitalism is somewhat of a mystery. Though it has made new goods and services available to a huge percentage of the people on this planet, it has done so at quite a cost to human lives and to the environment. Even in developed countries, capitalism has built a framework that provides us with all manner of luxuries, but at the cost of almost complete alienation from the processes and resources that form the base of our own subsistence strategies. This capitalistic framework creates a fragile social structure in which we are far more reliant on others for our direct subsistence than humanity has ever been before. Though this risk provides significant payoff to many, it can also carry with it a significant cost. Loss of a job can have devastating consequences for workers under a capitalistic system, resulting in loss of a subsistence strategy and often loss of a shelter, potentially causing a person’s fitness to plummet, often through no fault of his/her own. Though capitalism tends to be associated in the public mind with political freedom, members of a capitalist society often have very little freedom over their own subsistence strategies.

Furthermore, in order to obtain money, to buy into this framework, we are required to expend considerable labor, often entirely for someone else’s benefit. Capitalism as a system is constructed to funnel resources from the laboring majority to the managing minority. The practical foundation of the success of any capitalist economy is that people receive less compensation for their work than the actual value of their work. This is what the concept of profit is based on. From the viewpoint of human behavioral ecology, this is contradictory to optimal foraging theory, which states that people should try as much as possible to optimize their subsistence strategies by minimizing the cost of labor in relation to the return on that labor. Success in a capitalist system requires an individual to take uncontrollable risks and to accept and pursue a suboptimal subsistence strategy as part of a system that is explicitly designed to benefit others more than themselves.

As a result, though this system has greatly benefited a minority, and some of that success has spilled over onto the main populace in developed countries, many of the majority, especially in developing countries, face a constant unwinnable struggle to survive, working constantly for a restrictive, meager lifestyle. The majority of individuals are sacrificing potential fitness for the benefit of a few, many of whom have already obtained more than enough resources to care for more children than they could ever hope to conceive. In fact, rather than maximizing their fitnesses and choosing not to expend energy beyond that point, the most powerful people in capitalist societies are amassing vastly excessive collections resources. For these reasons, capitalism seems to run completely against the nature of individual evolution.

Capitalism is not a natural process, and thus it is not subject to the mechanisms of individual evolution. Individual evolution on a biological level requires three factors: genetic variation, genetic heritance, and competition as the result of selective ecological pressures. There is no such thing as biological group evolution, on any level smaller than an entire species, because migration and the resulting genetic flow does not allow for sufficient genetic variation to develop between groups.

However, capitalism is very subject to the process of cultural evolution. A very important distinction to make between cultural evolution and biological evolution is that although in some cases it can influence individual-level biological evolution, cultural evolution does not operate directly on a genetic level, but rather on a more superficial behavioral one. Apart from that, cultural evolution has similar requirements to biological evolution. To have cultural evolution, there must be a variation in behaviors to choose from, there must be a means of transmission for these behaviors, in the form of social learning, and there must be competition as a result of selective pressures, which are very often ecological. Cultural evolution, unlike biological evolution, can take place on a group level, because different groups of people can embrace, teach, and encourage or discourage different cultural traits. For a cultural trait to become initially successful, it must be perceived by members of a group as better than alternative traits because it allows them to adapt themselves to specific pressures more effectively. Once these traits have been chosen, they must be taught to new generations in order to endure.

Capitalism as an evolutionary mystery can be examined with respect to the biological mechanisms that may have serves as foundations to its development and with respect to the culturally evolutionary processes that have allowed it to develop. Niko Tinbergen’s 4 categories of behavioral explanation serve as an excellent guideline for this analysis. It is possible to analyze the individual side of the question through Tinbergen’s two biologically focused levels of explanation: the proximate and the ontogenetic. The proximate level of explanation is focused on the direct causal mechanisms of a behavior, while the ontogenetic level is focused on the development causes of a behavior. The evolutionarily-focused side of the question of capitalism is best answered with the other two levels of explanation: the ultimate and the phylogenetic. The ultimate level of explanation is focused on the effect that a behavior has on an organism’s fitness, while the phylogenetic level of explanation is focused on the evolutionary history of a behavior.

Perhaps the best level of explanation to start with is the phylogenetic one, as that concerns the evolutionary history that has shaped and influenced all other levels of explanation. Capitalism is obviously not present in any of our evolutionary ancestors, no matter how recent. However, reciprocal altruism, the sharing of goods with the expectation that goods will be shared in return in the future, is present in chimpanzees, our closest evolutionary relatives. Chimpanzees, for example, have been observed to develop relationships and alliances through the sharing of goods, such as meat, or services, such as grooming. This same type of behavior is thought to have played a significant part in the development of increased sociality among our more recent ancestors, eventually playing a key role in the development of human sociality as we know it today. Patterns of reciprocity may have been the most important evolutionary antecedent to modern human economies.

However, reciprocal altruism by itself does not seem like a sufficient foundation for the development of capitalism. A functioning capitalist system also requires the capability for abstract, symbolic thought, another capability that has been seen on some level in our most recent, living evolutionary ancestors but that became much more powerful during the evolution of early proto-humans. Only once we had evolved that capability would we have been able to participate in complex trading using representative currency.

Finally, a third vital skill, closely associated with reciprocal altruism, that humans would have needed in order to be capable of developing a capitalist system would have been the ability to delay gratification and calculate future cost for very long periods of time, in order to connect the ideas of wage labor, trade, and consumption. Scientists have done considerable research into the way that different animals, primates included, value or devalue increased future rewards in comparison to smaller present rewards. They have found that primates do indeed have the capacity to calculate future returns relative to present returns and act accordingly (source). However, complex trade economies require humans to use this cognitive ability on a level that is entirely outside the range of that measured in primates. This is yet another skill that must have evolved in our earlier evolutionary days as a species.

In relation to these points, exogamy, or the exchange of women in pair-bonding across different groups has been theorized (Chapais) to have played a significant part in the construction of modern human kinship and society, and it has also been theorized (other recent 306 source) that marriage in early human societies was very often associated with the exchange of a bride price or bride service. Perhaps the economic exchange of women was either an early driver or an early result of these evolutionary developments among early humans.

Overall, it seems that the most important foundations for the development of capitalism were already present in our evolutionary past, but it was our unique evolutionary development into the human species that jumpstarted those abilities and made them powerful enough that we could create such complex economic systems. This phylogenetic explanation leads right into a proximate level explanation, as the proximate explanation concerns the mechanisms that were developed in the human phylogenetic history.

On a proximate level, there are a number of mechanisms that have likely played a part in the development of capitalism. Since it’s likely that reciprocal altruism formed the foundation for the development of capitalism, the same mechanisms associated with reciprocal altruism should be associated with capitalism. Researchers in the field of human cognition have found that the reward center of the brain (what is it called?) is active when humans cooperate or punish defectors who don’t cooperate in their systems. These mechanisms are also present among chimpanzees, though as mentioned in the phylogenetic explanation, it is advanced human cognition that has allowed our mechanisms for cooperation, punishment, and “reciprocal scorekeeping” to become so complex. The selling and consumption of goods has also been shown to have a cognitive effect on humans, to the point that for some people these actions have become an addiction, an adrenaline rush that these people actively pursue. This addictive potential, and the powerful prevalence of a “consumer culture” in developed countries such as the US demonstrate very well the potency of the proximate mechanisms that prompt people to participate in capitalist systems. It is possible that the capitalist system has hijacked these proximate mechanisms, taking these short-sighted human drives and pandering to them, while neglecting the long-term perspectives that would reveal itself to be an unsustainable system.

“Greed” is a difficult aspect of human cognition to measure or label scientifically, but few would argue that it is not also a fundamental part of human thought and behavior. Greed, like altruism, has been suggested to be a symptom of the function of the reward center of the brain, caused by the association of pleasure with the accumulation of things of value. This proximate mechanism could explain why the most powerful members of capitalist societies often collect wealth and resources in quantities that far exceed what they could ever use.

The reward center of the brain is a highly generalized cognitive mechanism, and depending on an individual’s psychology, can be associated to varying degrees with food, sex, love, sharing, money, music, and beauty (source). This individual difference in psychology can potentially set the foundation for an ontogenetic, or developmental, explanation of why people participate in these systems.

People across cultures can have different views on capitalism, as it is not a biologically or developmentally inherent idea. However, development within a culture can have a significant influence on individual psychology, and culturally prescribed values can determine, to a large extent, with what people associate the feelings of pleasure that come from the cognitive reward center. Every society instills its values on its younger members. Young members of capitalist societies are taught through social learning to associate material gains with happiness, and they are taught that the pursuit of that “happiness” is the most important part of life, only obtained through hard work for other people. As a result, capitalism has become a belief system as much as an economic system for entire populations of people, resulting in an ideology powerful enough to potentially overcome even the logical processes that evolution has given us as a means of survival.

By building off of the foundation that the phylogenetic, proximate, and ontogenetic explanations provide, an attempt can be made at constructing an ultimate, holistic explanation for the relationship that capitalism has with human evolutionary fitness. Overall, capitalism seems to be a cultural system that uses social teaching to take advantage of individual biological drives that were developed during human evolution in order to create a final product, a system that actually stands contradictory to individual evolutionary nature by emphasizing group participation in a system that causes the excess resource accumulation of a few at the expense of the fitness of many.

This system likely could have culturally evolved as a result of an existing hierarchy in power, with the individuals at the top using their authority to create and perpetuate a system that maximized their own fitnesses, eventually creating a system that became so streamlined that fitness became essentially irrelevant, taken for granted, for the benefiting individuals, with success then being defined by the accumulation of excess resources, or capital, in comparison to others. By virtue of their own maligned evolutionary drives that keep motivating them to collect, despite not needing to, this system continues to be maintained by those with the power to influence social education, cultural norms, and punishments.

However, the majority may not be entirely misguided in participating in the capitalist system. Though the ruling elite do benefit the most from them, capitalist trade and production has created countless markets that can produce and provide vast quantities of a wide variety of goods. Those with authority seek to monopolize these resources, but in situations where the producing majority have managed to assert some sort of socio-political power, altering the capitalist dynamic, the poor and middle class have often benefited greatly from this modified system. As a result, it is often the case that the majority drive for the maximization of fitness and self-preservation overrides that of the powerful minority, resulting in a society that is more fit in general. This struggle between the majority and the minority has been a major defining element of modern history. The attempted development of economic alternatives to capitalism could be an excellent potential example of cultural group evolution selecting for the option that allows the most individuals to benefit.

In the end, Tinbergen’s 4 methods of explanation might not explain every aspect of such a complicated cultural phenomenon as capitalism, but they can offer a fresh perspective, helping to bring a more nuanced understanding to the system that is capitalism. They can offer potential explanations about the evolutionary history that could have set the foundation for capitalism, the proximate mechanisms evolved during this history that cause people to participate in capitalism, the developmental mechanisms that help to maintain capitalism, and finally, the ultimate evolutionary significance of capitalism. These tiers of explanation all help to pull away layers of potential confusion by directing each level of explanation at a potential layer of the phenomenon being studied in order to lay the steps for a foundational framework that can transcend these layers.

RedMaterialist
22nd April 2015, 01:45
I'm just finishing a little term paper (only 8 pages) on a potential theory of capitalism from an evolutionary perspective, incorporating minor elements of biological evolution but heavily focusing on cultural evolution (through innovation and social learning). I doubt many of you, if anyone, will want to read it, but I thought someone might find it interesting, as it's a bit different from the Marxist perspectives that are so often discussed here. I'm sure I'll get attacked by some traditionalists (if anyone reads it) for posting this, but keep in mind that just because something has possibly developed through the processes of evolution doesn't mean that it is natural or right, or that there aren't better alternatives. And keep in mind that this paper doesn't argue against the Marxist perspective in any way (in fact, I informally adopted a little bit of Marxist theory into it) Also, this is a rough draft, so I'm sure there are still some rough spots, and spots needing citation. So, without further ado, here you go:

Capitalism is a highly complex economic ...

Just a few thoughts. As I understand it you are saying, essentially, that capitalism developed through a process of cultural and, possibly biological, evolution involved in the natural greed of humans and in the pleasure centers of the human brain.

One problem I see is that the human brain has been evolving over hundreds of thousands of years and and it probably reached its current physical development within the last fifty thousand years. Thus, the pleasure centers you mentioned, as well as the propensity for greed would have been fully developed many thousands of yrs ago, yet capitalism as a complex, global economic system has only existed since about 1700.

Humans have used such economic systems as hunting and gathering in tribal and clan societies, patriarchy, slavery, feudalism, capitalism and now the first stages of socialism. Why didn't the native Americans or the Egyptians or ancient Greeks develop modern capitalism? Their brains are as well developed physiologically as ours, they have pleasure centers in their brains, they are probably as prone to greed as the average capitalist, although they don't approve of greed as our culture does.

I think there may be a time gap in your evolutionary theory. As a Marxist I would say that the economic production of the daily subsistence of human life has evolved over thousands of years, from hunting and gathering to a surplus producing agriculture then to the control of that surplus through slavery, feudalism and capitalism.

It was that economic development that led to the cultural evolution of human society, from the self-sufficient hunting society where greed would have have been contemptible to our society where greed is highest form of human morality. In other words, it's how we produce our daily human lives which determines our
culture, not the other way around.

The Disillusionist
22nd April 2015, 01:52
Just a few thoughts. As I understand it you are saying, essentially, that capitalism developed through a process of cultural and, possibly biological, evolution involved in the natural greed of humans and in the pleasure centers of the human brain.

One problem I see is that the human brain has been evolving over hundreds of thousands of years and and it probably reached its current physical development within the last fifty thousand years. Thus, the pleasure centers you mentioned, as well as the propensity for greed would have been fully developed many thousands of yrs ago, yet capitalism as a complex, global economic system has only existed since about 1700.

Humans have used such economic systems as hunting and gathering in tribal and clan societies, patriarchy, slavery, feudalism, capitalism and now the first stages of socialism. Why didn't the native Americans or the Egyptians or ancient Greeks develop modern capitalism? Their brains are as well developed physiologically as ours, they have pleasure centers in their brains, they are probably as prone to greed as the average capitalist, although they don't approve of greed as our culture does.

I think there may be a time gap in your evolutionary theory. As a Marxist I would say that the economic production of the daily subsistence of human life has evolved over thousands of years, from hunting and gathering to a surplus producing agriculture then to the control of that surplus through slavery, feudalism and capitalism.

It was that economic development that led to the cultural evolution of human society, from the self-sufficient hunting society where greed would have have been contemptible to our society where greed is highest form of human morality. In other words, it's how we produce our daily human lives which determines our
culture, not the other way around.

Though Marxism tends to be associated with progressivism, evolution, biological and cultural, is not progressive. Evolution does not inherently direct its subjects to some end point. As such, an evolutionary theory of capitalism would argue that capitalism just happened to be a cultural response (one of many possible) to a certain set of social, economic, and environmental pressures. The reason capitalism didn't "evolve" prior to 1700 (in modern form) is because those specific selection pressures weren't met and/or humans didn't react to them in the same way.

RedMaterialist
22nd April 2015, 03:07
Though Marxism tends to be associated with progressivism, evolution, biological and cultural, is not progressive. Evolution does not inherently direct its subjects to some end point. As such, an evolutionary theory of capitalism would argue that capitalism just happened to be a cultural response (one of many possible) to a certain set of social, economic, and environmental pressures. The reason capitalism didn't "evolve" prior to 1700 (in modern form) is because those specific selection pressures weren't met and/or humans didn't react to them in the same way.

Evolutionary theory requires a development from one stage, phase, species to another. I don't see any evolution from one stage to another.

The specific selection pressures, greed and pleasure, have been around for millions of years. A pig enjoys being greedy (as well as a two yr old, but you can teach a two yr old that it's wrong to be greedy.) That doesn't make the pig a capitalist. On the other hand it makes the capitalist a pig.

Something happened between 1500 and 1700 to bring capitalism into existence. It didn't just suddenly appear one day.

The Disillusionist
22nd April 2015, 03:36
Evolutionary theory requires a development from one stage, phase, species to another. I don't see any evolution from one stage to another.

The specific selection pressures, greed and pleasure, have been around for millions of years. A pig enjoys being greedy (as well as a two yr old, but you can teach a two yr old that it's wrong to be greedy.) That doesn't make the pig a capitalist. On the other hand it makes the capitalist a pig.

Something happened between 1500 and 1700 to bring capitalism into existence. It didn't just suddenly appear one day.

You're talking about a vastly outdated form of evolutionary theory. Like, 1800's evolutionary theory. Stage models are entirely obsolete. Sure, speciation occurs, but evolution also occurs within a species, and there are phases, only adaptations. Evolution doesn't have a plan. As I said, capitalism happened to be an adaptive response to certain pressures. There could have been other responses, but there weren't, so this is what we have. It's not a phase, it's just a phenomenon, and socialism/communism isn't the inherent next step, it's the result of a conflict between the evolutionary interests of the powerless majority against the evolutionary interests of the powerful minority.

RedMaterialist
23rd April 2015, 01:31
You're talking about a vastly outdated form of evolutionary theory. Like, 1800's evolutionary theory. Stage models are entirely obsolete. Sure, speciation occurs, but evolution also occurs within a species, and there are phases, only adaptations. Evolution doesn't have a plan. As I said, capitalism happened to be an adaptive response to certain pressures. There could have been other responses, but there weren't, so this is what we have. It's not a phase, it's just a phenomenon, and socialism/communism isn't the inherent next step, it's the result of a conflict between the evolutionary interests of the powerless majority against the evolutionary interests of the powerful minority.

Are you saying Darwinian evolution is not real?

Species certainly evolve into other species and evolution occurs within a species. You could just as well say humans are an "adaptive response to certain pressures" rather than the result of millions of years of evolution. You would still have to explain how homo habilis evolved into Homo sapiens.

And you haven't explained how capitalism originated, where it came from, and what preceded it. The primary driving force of evolution is genetic mutation. The driving force of economic history is class antagonism: slaves and slave owners, serfs and landlords, workers and capitalists. Marx is to history what Darwin is to biology.

The Disillusionist
24th April 2015, 04:24
Are you saying Darwinian evolution is not real?

Species certainly evolve into other species and evolution occurs within a species. You could just as well say humans are an "adaptive response to certain pressures" rather than the result of millions of years of evolution. You would still have to explain how homo habilis evolved into Homo sapiens.

And you haven't explained how capitalism originated, where it came from, and what preceded it. The primary driving force of evolution is genetic mutation. The driving force of economic history is class antagonism: slaves and slave owners, serfs and landlords, workers and capitalists. Marx is to history what Darwin is to biology.

What? No.... I'm saying that "stage" evolution isn't sure. Yeah, obviously evolution occurs over time. I am VERY familiar with the theory of evolution, it's a major part of the degree I'm pursuing. There are three equal driving forces of evolution: variation, heredity, and competition. Cultural evolution is driven by similar forces: Variation in behavior through innovation, heredity through social learning, and competition as a result of ecological pressures.

I explained how capitalism could have been evolved... people with authority could have been put in a position to create a system that was constructed to maximize their own fitnesses at the expense of others. Class conflict is the result of the majority seeking to reclaim their own optimal fitnesses.

John Nada
24th April 2015, 09:12
In relation to these points, exogamy, or the exchange of women in pair-bonding across different groups has been theorized (Chapais) to have played a significant part in the construction of modern human kinship and society, and it has also been theorized (other recent 306 source) that marriage in early human societies was very often associated with the exchange of a bride price or bride service. Perhaps the economic exchange of women was either an early driver or an early result of these evolutionary developments among early humans.I'm not sure if trading women was a driver of evolution early on or in early humans. Compared to other primates, humans are pretty egalitarian. Couldn't be said that trading men was? But for what, if there's no concept of property for hundreds of thousands of years?
Researchers in the field of human cognition have found that the reward center of the brain (what is it called?) is active when humans cooperate or punish defectors who don’t cooperate in their systems.Ventral tegmental area. Are you trying to get us to do your homework?:)

What isn't addressed is what makes humans different. Humans can alter their environment at will. They've evolved to walk upright, have hands with oppossable thumbs, live rather long, have rather long childhoods, the genders are pretty similar, brains are proportionately larger, language is employed to convey thoughts, ect. This has existed for hundreds of thousands of years, yet capitalism is a phase that's only been around for a few hundred.

Capitalism required a number of developments to occur in the first place. Agriculture, writing, mechanization, ect. What's unique about humans is they can consciously alter their environment. The pressures change at will. This isn't an individual effort, but a collective one for which humans have evolved. Humans adapt to their environment, but at the same time change it.

I take a different view. The phases of development aren't just products of evolution, but of physical entropy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

G4b3n
24th April 2015, 09:47
Read kropotkin if you want an analysis of capitalism from a semi-biological perspective.

The Disillusionist
24th April 2015, 16:47
Read kropotkin if you want an analysis of capitalism from a semi-biological perspective.

Kropotkin was kind of an early anarchist-anthropologist. But he didn't understand the nature of group evolution. Group evolution can't really happen biologically, only culturally.



Juan, my argument is that women WERE one of the first forms of "property," being traded like capital. If I had time to write a longer paper I would talk about the conflict between male and female reproductive interests and gender roles that lead to this. In short, women always know that their children are their own, but men don't. So males with authority often benefit from creating a system that treats women as exclusive property, to maximize paternity certainty, which ensures maximal fitness for that man.

Finally, I'm not arguing that capitalism has some kind of long, evolutionary tradition. I'm arguing that pre-existing evolutionary developments have been culturally expropriated in RECENT centuries, which has allowed capitalism to CULTURALLY evolve. Humans do change their environments, that is a form of culture, but we are still subject to the same ecological pressures, they're inescapable.

RedMaterialist
24th April 2015, 17:57
What? No.... I'm saying that "stage" evolution isn't sure. Yeah, obviously evolution occurs over time. I am VERY familiar with the theory of evolution, it's a major part of the degree I'm pursuing. There are three equal driving forces of evolution: variation, heredity, and competition. Cultural evolution is driven by similar forces: Variation in behavior through innovation, heredity through social learning, and competition as a result of ecological pressures.

I explained how capitalism could have been evolved... people with authority could have been put in a position to create a system that was constructed to maximize their own fitnesses at the expense of others. Class conflict is the result of the majority seeking to reclaim their own optimal fitnesses.

How did slavery evolve into feudalism?

Guardia Rossa
24th April 2015, 18:31
IMO What brought our form of capitalism were the material changes in England and how they affected the rest of the world from there. Before, it was the mercantilism, also, the "capitalist culture" was created by the capitalism itself not by a natural cultural evolution of some kind.

G4b3n
24th April 2015, 19:02
Kropotkin was kind of an early anarchist-anthropologist. But he didn't understand the nature of group evolution. Group evolution can't really happen biologically, only culturally.



Juan, my argument is that women WERE one of the first forms of "property," being traded like capital. If I had time to write a longer paper I would talk about the conflict between male and female reproductive interests and gender roles that lead to this. In short, women always know that their children are their own, but men don't. So males with authority often benefit from creating a system that treats women as exclusive property, to maximize paternity certainty, which ensures maximal fitness for that man.

Finally, I'm not arguing that capitalism has some kind of long, evolutionary tradition. I'm arguing that pre-existing evolutionary developments have been culturally expropriated in RECENT centuries, which has allowed capitalism to CULTURALLY evolve. Humans do change their environments, that is a form of culture, but we are still subject to the same ecological pressures, they're inescapable.

You will find a similar analysis in Engel's Origins of Private Property the State and the Family. A much different conclusion but he begins with a somewhat similar premise in regards to early marriage contracts.

RedMaterialist
24th April 2015, 20:45
Finally, I'm not arguing that capitalism has some kind of long, evolutionary tradition. I'm arguing that pre-existing evolutionary developments have been culturally expropriated in RECENT centuries, which has allowed capitalism to CULTURALLY evolve.

What pre-existing evolutionary developments do you mean, specifically? Culturally appropriated by whom?


Humans do change their environments, that is a form of culture,

Marx agreed with you. He said that men make their own history, but not just as they please, they can only make their history under the economic conditions actually existing.


but we are still subject to the same ecological pressures, they're inescapable.

Which ecological pressures exactly?

RedMaterialist
24th April 2015, 20:54
Kropotkin was kind of an early anarchist-anthropologist. But he didn't understand the nature of group evolution. Group evolution can't really happen biologically, only culturally.

The mechanism of biological evolution is genetic mutation, adaption to the environment, etc. The same basic ideas of Darwin.

So, what is the specific mechanism of cultural, group evolution?

The Disillusionist
25th April 2015, 05:23
Guys, I'm not arguing against Marxism! Marxism is a theory of cultural evolution! I'm just expanding the framework. There is no such thing as "natural cultural evolution" or even "natural" biological evolution in the sense that greavyard seems to be implying... evolution does have any natural direction or purpose and NOT mean progression towards an inevitable end, it just means change as a response to certain conditions..

Also, ecological pressures are the environmental conditions that drive material change and innovation. In my opinion, ecology is one of the aspects that Marx neglected, because environmentalism wasn't really a thing when he was writing. But of course, Marxism and ecology are not mutually exclusive.

The specific mechanisms of cultural evolution are variation through innovation, competition between behavioral traits, and heritability in the form of social learning.

RedMaterialist
25th April 2015, 07:58
Guys, I'm not arguing against Marxism! Marxism is a theory of cultural evolution! I'm just expanding the framework. There is no such thing as "natural cultural evolution" or even "natural" biological evolution in the sense that greavyard seems to be implying... evolution does have any natural direction or purpose and NOT mean progression towards an inevitable end, it just means change as a response to certain conditions..

Also, ecological pressures are the environmental conditions that drive material change and innovation. In my opinion, ecology is one of the aspects that Marx neglected, because environmentalism wasn't really a thing when he was writing. But of course, Marxism and ecology are not mutually exclusive.

The specific mechanisms of cultural evolution are variation through innovation, competition between behavioral traits, and heritability in the form of social learning.

When you say "cultural" evolution of capitalism it implies some change in capitalism caused by a cultural influences. The steam engine was a technology which certainly changed capitalism, indeed probably had most to do with developing large scale industry. Before the steam engine capital was mostly small artisans, peasant farmers, escaped serfs working in towns. With the steam engine these groups could be brought together to work "socially" to produce commodities in giant factories.
R
But is the invention and development of a steam engine really a cultural event or an economic one?

Hit The North
25th April 2015, 14:37
Guys, I'm not arguing against Marxism! Marxism is a theory of cultural evolution! I'm just expanding the framework.


Marxism is a theory of social development where the social encompasses the economic, the political and the cultural, so to reduce it to a "theory of cultural evolution" is to narrow, rather than expand, the framework.


Also, ecological pressures are the environmental conditions that drive material change and innovation. In my opinion, ecology is one of the aspects that Marx neglected, because environmentalism wasn't really a thing when he was writing. But of course, Marxism and ecology are not mutually exclusive.


I think you're wrong that Marx ignored the environment as it is essential to his dialectic of history. Here's a quote from Grundrisse:


It is not the unity of living and active humanity with the natural, inorganic conditions of their metabolic exchange with nature, and hence their appropriation of nature, which requires explanation or is the result of a historic process, but rather the separation between these inorganic conditions of human existence and this active existence, a separation which is completely posited
only in the relation of wage labour and capital.

You could do worse than read Marx's Ecology: materialism and nature by John Bellamy Foster if you can find it.

Besides, I think it is ecological thinking that could benefit from a good dose of Marxism, rather than the other way around. It is Marx and Engels who give us a method for thinking dialectically about nature and mankind's relationships within it. It is Marx who gives us an analysis of capitalism which explains why it devastates nature in the pursuit of its reproduction and saves environmentalism from being a stagnant form of primitivism. It is Marxism which locates the revolutionary overthrow of the capitalist relation as the only solution, therefore, to the despoliation of the environment.



But is the invention and development of a steam engine really a cultural event or an economic one?

It is a technological event shaped by economic forces and having economic and cultural consequences.

The Disillusionist
25th April 2015, 16:20
When you say "cultural" evolution of capitalism it implies some change in capitalism caused by a cultural influences. The steam engine was a technology which certainly changed capitalism, indeed probably had most to do with developing large scale industry. Before the steam engine capital was mostly small artisans, peasant farmers, escaped serfs working in towns. With the steam engine these groups could be brought together to work "socially" to produce commodities in giant factories.
R
But is the invention and development of a steam engine really a cultural event or an economic one?

Economy and technology are subsets of culture. These are false dichotomies.

The Disillusionist
25th April 2015, 16:48
Marxism is a theory of social development where the social encompasses the economic, the political and the cultural, so to reduce it to a "theory of cultural evolution" is to narrow, rather than expand, the framework.

I think you're wrong that Marx ignored the environment as it is essential to his dialectic of history. Here's a quote from Grundrisse:

You could do worse than read Marx's Ecology: materialism and nature by John Bellamy Foster if you can find it.

Besides, I think it is ecological thinking that could benefit from a good dose of Marxism, rather than the other way around. It is Marx and Engels who give us a method for thinking dialectically about nature and mankind's relationships within it. It is Marx who gives us an analysis of capitalism which explains why it devastates nature in the pursuit of its reproduction and saves environmentalism from being a stagnant form of primitivism. It is Marxism which locates the revolutionary overthrow of the capitalist relation as the only solution, therefore, to the despoliation of the environment.

It is a technological event shaped by economic forces and having economic and cultural consequences.


Again, the economy and politics are subsets of culture, so these are false dichotomies. "Social development" and "cultural evolution" mean exactly the same thing, except that "evolution" doesn't imply a natural end result.

Also, I don't think Marx IGNORED ecology, I agree with what he wrote, I just think he should have written more about it, since it's every bit as important as the material conditions that he based his theory on.

Rafiq
25th April 2015, 17:41
Juan, my argument is that women WERE one of the first forms of "property," being traded like capital. If I had time to write a longer paper I would talk about the conflict between male and female reproductive interests and gender roles that lead to this. In short, women always know that their children are their own, but men don't. So males with authority often benefit from creating a system that treats women as exclusive property, to maximize paternity certainty, which ensures maximal fitness for that man.

And this would fail to explain why exactly there is absolutely no evidence that prior to the advent of agriculture women were treated as property. To suggest that there was some sort of "natural" clash of reproductive interests has its grounding purely in pseudo-theoretical masturbation, an exaltation of reified ideology. Contrary to your claims, ample evidence suggests that the transformation of women into slaves, into objects which can be traded and so on simply did not exist before the pre-requisites to the neolithic revolution. Even what many thought had been the exception, the aboriginal "hunter-gatherers" who did this, have now been discovered to have had agricultural techniques thousands of years prior to discovery by Europeans. You are right about the fact that men didn't know which children were theirs, but this wasn't a problem until relationships of private property developed following the controlled cultivation of plants and the division of labor of which had nothing to do with any kind of evolutionary refined pre-requisites, but the necessity of ensuring the reproduction of agricultural systems. The crux of your flaw is that you pre-suppose that the inability for males to ensure their paternity was somehow an issue, and it relies upon the fundamentally ideological presumption that pursuing individual "maximal fitness" in a way comparable to other animals, primates included, had factored into human survival. It only became an issue when the necessity of property inheritance following the death of a patriarch was on the table. The vulgarity here is that it fails to recognize that the blind pursuit of "maximizing fitness" in social animals like humans doesn't exist - the reproduction of one's genes is simply not enough, the main concern becomes the reproduction of the social as a means of survival.

Thoroughly evolutionary psychology is reactionary in nature. Its power is not owed to any 'empirical' proof or any independent soundness of its theory, but to reified ideological presumptions which simply aren't questioned, much like how theologists will go on rambling about their nonsense completely unaware that a few realities could render their talk futile. Evolutionary psychology is pseudo-scientific in that it fails to grasp the complexity of the social dimension that defines the particularity of human behavior, often leaving the gaps of what we "don't know" to religion or official ideology, when we know DAMNED WELL that these aren't gaps at all. You reveal this to everyone when you claim that certain behaviors unique to capitalism have their basis uniquely in our 'evolutionary' behaviors. Indeed it was Marx who said that we must deal with human nature in general, and then human behavior in particular (relative to certain social epochs). Indeed, the claim would otherwise be of no consequence - we are human, capitalism is compatible with human biology and we know that much. But what CONSTITUTES human biology - THIS is the problem! Rather than taking this as a banality, we can only recognize how perverse this truly is - what is eventful about the fact, for example, that in capitalism we have a distinct way of taking a shit, and the mechanisms for taking a shit have their grounding in biology? This is a rather innocent, and obvious claim. But you go FAR beyond this - you claim that our predispositions to relationships to private property, to capital - even if to a minor extent this is true, and to say so is absolutely ridiculous, you fulfill what I had previously said of you - the POWER of this otherwise "banal" statement is owed to its ability to legitimize behaviors unique to capitalism to eternal laws of man or nature. For Marxists, this is called reification - and evolutionary psychologists are simply the high scholars of reification. Take Marx:

A commodity is therefore a mysterious thing, simply because in it the social character of men’s labour appears to them as an objective character stamped upon the product of that labour; because the relation of the producers to the sum total of their own labour is presented to them as a social relation existing not between themselves, but between the products of their labour. This is the reason the products of labour become commodities, social things whose qualities are at the same time perceptible and imperceptible by the senses ... It is only a definite social relation between men that assumes, in their eyes, the fantastic form of a relation between things


What Marx is saying here is that the social aspect of labor, or a relative relationship to production, is ideologically transcribed into the product of that labor as a given, as an objective character. The same goes not only for the direct products of labor, but that which reproduces labor - sexual relations, human behavior and so on. How much of this we can actually attribute to genetics would require actual research, rather than pseudo-theoretical dick swinging. It would require the pre-requisite of a recognition of the actual difference between different historic epochs, and what constitutes a social totality and so on - but this isn't present for evolutionary psychologists. For example, they can take behavior present in South Korea, and behavior in France, and assume that this is an example of innate, inhernet behavior completely ignorant of the fact that "cultural difference" in this sense is absolutely meaningless when the social relations to production are the same, the only cultural difference is various creative abstractions from a singular, objective cultural condition. What is absolutely unforgivable is here:


However, reciprocal altruism, the sharing of goods with the expectation that goods will be shared in return in the future, is present in chimpanzees, our closest evolutionary relatives. Chimpanzees, for example, have been observed to develop relationships and alliances through the sharing of goods, such as meat, or services, such as grooming. This same type of behavior is thought to have played a significant part in the development of increased sociality among our more recent ancestors, eventually playing a key role in the development of human sociality as we know it today. Patterns of reciprocity may have been the most important evolutionary antecedent to modern human economies.


What this ignores is the inability to grasp that Chimpanzees, and their evolutionary history divulged from that of humans - it is certainly unique and owed to factors which are not, and were not present with the first bipedal hominids! Chimpanzees, if we want to anthropomorphize them, are bastard offspring of nature - they are the shit-crumbs of the evolutionary development of the hominid, owing their survival not to the best ability to survive, but to simply survive. That is to say, with their eternal non-history of the alpha-male system with a static relationship to nature, their behavioral patterns don't demonstrate some kind of innate behaviors present in humans. We know this - we know the HUGE extent of behavioral variation with primates because quickly comparing the Bonobo Chimpanzee, which is just as much our closest relative as the common Chimpanzee, displays behavior that is infinitely different, and this is owed to different environmental factors. What you fail to recognize is that even for an animal like a Gorilla, these behaviors are social, they are learned. A chimp does not automatically, genetically become predisposed to "reciprocal altruism", it is merely consequential of their specific relationship to their surroundings - even the social structure of the chimp more or less HAS to be learned to be reproduced. For the gorilla at least, many cases of gorillas being raised primarily with humans and then being unable to mate, or properly interact with other gorillas are found today.


Humans do change their environments, that is a form of culture, but we are still subject to the same ecological pressures, they're inescapable.


Humans create their own "ecological" pressures:


Again, the economy and politics are subsets of culture, so these are false dichotomies. "Social development" and "cultural evolution" mean exactly the same thing, except that "evolution" doesn't imply a natural end result.

Also, I don't think Marx IGNORED ecology, I agree with what he wrote, I just think he should have written more about it, since it's every bit as important as the material conditions that he based his theory on.

The "economy" and "politics" are not identifiably separate domains, and if they are, this is a phenomena unique to neoliberalism and the intricacies of finance being deemed simply the "economy" while completely ignoring the entirety of our productive relations. But never mind that - culture itself is a meaningless term as it is being employed, because culture is simply the means by which specific relationships to production are reproduced. That is to say, social development and cultural evolution are most certainly NOT the same, because "cultural differences" can be found globally with the same social relationships to production, signifying various different means by which capitalism is reproduced, albeit perhaps with the same form. So these aren't synonymous - culture is symptomatic while the necessity for man to feed, clothe and shelter himself and the various ways by which he goes about doing this is axiomatic. The confusion also arises with the fact that ONLY in capitalism has the sphere of "culture" EVEN existed - before, culture was not a domain which was MALLEABLE, it was simply intregal to the process of production. But capitalism has opened up this dissonance precisely because as it revolutionizes its own foundations, "culture" too becomes malleable. That's why spontaneous changes in culture do not happen - a change in social relations, in one way or another always proceeds it. The POWER of a culture is precisely owed to this, which is why the culture shock experienced by many indigenous peoples', colonized peoples upon actual adoption of capitalism is so short of a time - all that is solid simply melts into air, as it is said.

Furthermore, it is good that Marx did not pay much attention to 'ecology', because he paid attention to it already in a different name: Religion. That is right - ecology is simply another form of religion today, of metaphysical superstition. What in any meaningful sense could ecology have to do with human social reality? Ecology concerns processes that are PRECISELY not social, but designate an eternally fixed relationship with nature, something humans do not have. If humans can change nature, that also means they can change "ecology", which itself is a meaningless term when applied as a SUBSTITUTION for the social. The problem of bourgeois ideology, and all forms of idealism, FRANKLY is that it REFUSES to recognize the social dimension of humans as something particularly innate to our survival. That is to say, a dissonance is made between our relative social existence, and our "actual" "evolutionary" predispositions to behavior, which are transcribed into the form of the animal which does not change their nature. The gaps, that is, the particular behaviors which cannot be explained by evolutionary psychology, are deemed enigmas, perhaps left to the dogs of religion. This is why Marxism substitutes science with ideology - the social dimension is designated by non-Marxists, but the means to conceive this designation in knowledge are non-existent. For Marxists, this dimension is completely up there, on the table, open for critical evaluation and criticism, but THERE - it designates the social scientifically and it designates it as knowable.

RedMaterialist
26th April 2015, 20:19
Economy and technology are subsets of culture. These are false dichotomies.

If economy is a subset of culture, then where does culture come from? What possible "culture" could have produced capitalism? American bourgeois economists believe that capital is a product of nature; the crazier ones think it is god-given.


Life is not determined by consciousness, but consciousness by life. the German ideology.

In other words, culture and consciousness are determined by life, production, by the economic relations of real people. I think a good example of this is the current reshaping of culture by social media and the internet. Even this "discussion" would be impossible without the internet.

RedMaterialist
26th April 2015, 20:34
Guys, I'm not arguing against Marxism! Marxism is a theory of cultural evolution!

This is where I think you make a mistake. Marxism is definitely not a theory of cultural evolution. It is a theory of materialistic evolution (and revolution) based on the actual, material changes in the human production of their lives.

It is no more cultural evolution than is Darwinian evolution.

Marxism says that material evolution produces cultural evolution. It was capitalism which produced the conflict in France which ultimately led to the French Revolution.

ckaihatsu
1st May 2015, 20:19
When you say "cultural" evolution of capitalism it implies some change in capitalism caused by a cultural influences. The steam engine was a technology which certainly changed capitalism, indeed probably had most to do with developing large scale industry. Before the steam engine capital was mostly small artisans, peasant farmers, escaped serfs working in towns. With the steam engine these groups could be brought together to work "socially" to produce commodities in giant factories.
R




But is the invention and development of a steam engine really a cultural event or an economic one?





Economy and technology are subsets of culture. These are false dichotomies.


I think you answered your own question, RM -- the steam engine could not have existed in any socially paradigmatic way until capital had accumulated to the point where steam engine usage would confer a distinct and definitive economic advantage.

Consider what had just preceded it -- water wheels.

From a quick jump over to Wikipedia it looks as though the first generations of the steam engine were used specifically for mining operations, which implies an *industrial* usage of energy:





1698 – Thomas Savery introduces a steam pump he calls the Miner's Friend.[5] It is almost certainly a direct copy of Somerset's design. One key improvement is added later, replacing the cold water flow on the outside of the cylinder with a spray directly inside it. A small number of his pumps are built, mostly experimental in nature, but like any system based on suction to lift the water, they have a maximum height of 32 feet (and typically much less). In order to be practical, his design can also use the pressure of additional steam to force the water out the top of the cylinder, allowing the pumps to be "stacked", but many mine owners were afraid of the risk of explosion and avoided this option. (Savery engines were re-introduced in the 1780s to recirculate water to water wheels driving textile mills, especially in periods of drought).




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_steam_power


So the development of the steam engine was definitely an *economic* event.

I have a framework, btw, that places 'timeless' societal dynamics on a hierarchy of levels, according to relative scale of magnitude:


[1] History, Macro Micro -- Precision



http://s6.postimg.org/nmlxvtqlt/1_History_Macro_Micro_Precision.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/zbpxjshkd/full/)

John Nada
2nd May 2015, 00:38
I think you answered your own question, RM -- the steam engine could not have existed in any socially paradigmatic way until capital had accumulated to the point where steam engine usage would confer a distinct and definitive economic advantage.

Consider what had just preceded it -- water wheels.

From a quick jump over to Wikipedia it looks as though the first generations of the steam engine were used specifically for mining operations, which implies an *industrial* usage of energy:
1698 – Thomas Savery introduces a steam pump he calls the Miner's Friend.[5] It is almost certainly a direct copy of Somerset's design. One key improvement is added later, replacing the cold water flow on the outside of the cylinder with a spray directly inside it. A small number of his pumps are built, mostly experimental in nature, but like any system based on suction to lift the water, they have a maximum height of 32 feet (and typically much less). In order to be practical, his design can also use the pressure of additional steam to force the water out the top of the cylinder, allowing the pumps to be "stacked", but many mine owners were afraid of the risk of explosion and avoided this option. (Savery engines were re-introduced in the 1780s to recirculate water to water wheels driving textile mills, especially in periods of drought).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_steam_power So the development of the steam engine was definitely an *economic* event.The steam engine was first made in a very primitive form in ancient Greece. However it was only a novelty. It was more practical to use slave labor than burn a bunch of wood. Coal and petroleum was not as common.

What preceded the steam engine, that caused an increase in coal production, was the English Civil War. Massive amounts were needed for gunpowder. In fact, the inventor Thomas Savery was in the military. With gunpowder and firearms less skilled soldiers could be enlisted en mass. Classical knights and castles became worthless when gunpowder became widespread because they were easy targets for cannons and rifles.

At the same time to make gunpowder more windmills and watermills were needed. Improvements in agriculture necessitated mills. Windmills and watermills were used to grind grain. Less animals and people were needed for this. More effect wind/watermills made it easier to make gunpowder. More productive land reduced the need for serfs(driven off the land in the encloser, freeing them to be exploited by the bourgeoisie) and lead to the rising importance of yeoman farmers and the bourgeoisie.

Books were rare. A scholar had to copy old books by hand. Usually only scholars, who were usually drawn from the clergy and nobility, had books. Even then, many books were written in Latin or nomenclature that the average person couldn't understand. Reading was a privilege for the upper classes, and even a lot of the nobility couldn't read.

The printing press made books more accessible to the masses. More people could read the Bible, challenging priests' monopoly on religion. Besides the Bible, other forms of written propaganda reached a wider audience too:lol:. This contributed to the Protestant Reformation.

With more access to religious texts, as well as the ability to more widely disseminate propaganda, this challenged the old order. New sects arouse in Christianity. Among them were the Puritans, who were Cromwell's New Model Army's support base among the yeomen, merchants and guilds. Which lead to England's bourgeois revolution.