Socialist views on drugs?

[AidanChrist]

What are my fellow leftists views on drugs/alcohol?

I personally am very against them and use none. I find that they confuse and weaken the mind while promoting laziness and apathy. I have seen many comrades fall victim to all kinds of drugs, from pot to heroin, and it never turns out good. While I am against the war on drugs (as any logical person would be) I am angered by the rising popularity of "recreational" drug laws. Drugs should be decriminalized and treated as a public health concern with treatment readily available

Any opposing views?

[Artiom]

I'm pretty much with you. Althou I drink I can't see that is doing me any good, from some sort of "objective" point of view. But I recognize that most people (like myself) are just humans who enjoy such things way to much in order forbid them. Besides, way to many prohibitionist tend to be hughe moralists, just saying.

[Ele'ill]

I have never done any before what are they like?

[BITW434]

I only drink alcohol. Although I'm not particularly bothered if others wish to do drugs, it's just not for me.

[G4b3n]

I use amphetamines to stay up and alert for work and school when needed. I might also use downers once in a great while if I somehow secure the time needed to relax.
I don't think drugs makes you lazy. I think being lazy makes you lazy. And yea prohibition is shit, obviously.

[Sinister Intents]

I injected three marijuanas once, I almost died

Honestly the OP sounds very puritanical. I'm very much for the legalization and utility of any and all substances for everyone. I personally enjoy a good smoke, it helps me keep calm, destroys my anxiety, and makes me hungry.

[AidanChrist]

I use amphetamines to stay up and alert for work and school when needed. I might also use downers once in a great while if I somehow secure the time needed to relax.
I don't think drugs makes you lazy. I think being lazy makes you lazy. And yea prohibition is shit, obviously.
I wrote this mainly in response to seeing comrades lose all revolutionary leanings. Instead becoming idealists or just apathetic after they start to smoke weed constantly. I probably should have clarified that I was talking about recreational drugs and overuse.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Drugs? Never. I don't know why all these doped-up hipsters won't be more like me, and brew themselves up a nice strong cup of green tea & throw on a Kenny Loggins record. Now THAT'S a good time!

[cyu]

I wouldn't say the issue is directly related to socialism - although in the name of freedom from oppression, it can easily be argued that you can do whatever you want if you're not hurting others.

However, in the grand scheme of things, you have to wonder why so many societies are against recreational drug use. What's so bad if your population is always zoned out and enjoying themselves? On the first level, I'd say it's fine, but when it comes to memetic propagation, it has trouble. Mules might be fine as themselves, but as a group they don't propagate.

So it's not that spending all day relaxing is bad in itself, but if it makes your society's memes less able to spread, those memes will be overrun by other memes (for example, ones claiming that drug use is evil). Just as it wouldn't be so bad if there were no weapons in society and nobody fought each other - however, if that also leaves your society vulnerable to conquest by more warlike neighbors, then your society's memes won't survive either.

[Os Cangaceiros]

God forbid that the memes are endangered! :ohmy:

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think a big part of the reason drugs are officially viewed with disapproval is that drugs replace the importance of official institutions. People replace with the importance of the state/their job/the party/the church/the family/etc. with the importance of getting high. So in that sense I don't really think it's a huge mystery why certain drugs are demonized.

Still though, I wonder just how truly recreational drug use is frowned upon, at least in the society I'm used to (the USA). If one looks at certain drugs & how they're marketed like caffeine or alcohol, the legalization efforts for cannabis, or takes a look at the enormous market for illegal drugs here, I wouldn't say that society is necessarily against recreational drug use.

[cyu]

Reminds me a bit of just how much a religion should encourage their followers to proselytize. While religious dogma may not change, whether there is proselytization or not, it does affect the survivability of the religion itself. The more proselytization there is, the more this "organism" spreads, even if it means additional hardship for the followers of the religion.

The same is true of other aspects of society. If the society asks its members to suffer to help spread the society's "values" then their individual members may be less happy, but the spread of the societal "organism" grows.

[Rudolf]

Ah, the supposed dichotomy between drugs and alcohol that exists not based on any pharmacology but purely as a result of historic and cultural precedence. Alcohol being what has to be one of the most common recreational drugs it is the most prone for the development of drug problems and addictions.

But let's talk about drug problems. The usual concept, it's quite old now, is that you take this drug and because of that you get addicted and that causes loads of social problems... It just doesn't make sense though, does it? If that's how it works then surely society would have crumbled already. In medicine, for example, there is a huge amount of opiate use. No doubt a sizeable proportion of people on this board have at one time or another been prescribed a course of opiates and it's not resulted in any such problems.

It's from an old experiment on rats. So you take a rat, put it in a cage all alone with 2 water bottles. One with water and the other laced with heroin. The rat will go after the heroin time and time again until it kills itself.

But back in the 70s professer Bruce Alexander did a different experiment. He created a cage with other rats, provided toys, tunnels for them to roam about in, high quality food and the two water bottles, one a control and the other laced. They barely touched it and none of them died.

The thing is the problem's not the drugs it's the cage. An individual facing poverty, social isolation and a lack of varied stimuli is the cause. It is in this where it intersects with socialism. The destruction of alienation, being able to fully take part in social life, being able to fully develop ones latent faculties etc is the only way to tackle drug addiction.

[Rafiq]

They are a distraction. Politically, all socialists must fervently oppose criminalization of drug use without exception - that does not mean drugs are to be regarded as anything more than a distraction, a means by which the existing order is passively reproduced. In fact, drug use is only taboo legally - for the most part it has a rational purpose within our capitalist totality, in the same way prostitution does for sexual relationship.

Os, this may have been true several decades ago, but today drugs serve the opposite purpose. Today we have "safe" drug use, but the reproduction of the legitimacy of official institutions is even greater. Why? When one is high, or intoxicated, one places their faith to eventual sobriety in normality. When one is fucked up, they only enjoy themselves knowing that eventually they will be normal again, or they will eventually be able to function normally. This "normality" is solely dictated by ruling ideology, THIS is precisely where ideology is strongest.

While drugs and their implications vary, marijuana use is just as rebellious and subversive today as condemning the westboro Baptist church. It is the appropriation of subversiveness in a way which is not harmful to the reproduction of the existing order. These are almost a kind of transgressive desublimation - talk to Any stoner and see how plainly hedonistic marijuana use is: it isn't, it requires very intensive forms of ideological justification.

[Nautilus]

I do pot, and alcohol, but it's very rarely though.

About weed, if you raise it your own, not obtaining it by dealers and not getting addicted, it's fine.

[Comrade Jacob]

I injected three marijuanas once, I almost died



I smoked 10 LSD and I am died from a wolf I thought I saw.

[Comrade Jacob]

Drugs should be decriminalised and a few should be legal but not promoted.

[consuming negativity]

there's nothing wrong with recreational drug use and i distrust anyone who thinks otherwise

[Sasha]

all drugs should be legal as criminalization does not work and the fast majority of "drug"problems are in fact problems stemming from its criminalization, that said, my drugs and alcohol use is far more abusive in times when i'm under lots of stress and need to work my ass off, i expect that in non-capitalist society drug use will be near exclusive recreational and not for the numbing of alienation and that thus people will do different drugs and in different ways...

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I use cannabis about once a week, and drink alcohol maybe a few times a year. I'm neither confused nor weak-minded, and have an instinctive distrust of puritanism, especially when it's dressed up in supposedly radical clothes.

[Mr. Piccolo]

I occasionally drink alcohol but I do not use drugs, unless you consider coffee a drug. I am a coffee junkie.

Criminalizing drug use is counterproductive. If anything it is a public health issue. I do think that trafficking in dangerous drugs should remain a crime, however. I see it as poisoning people for profit.

[cyu]

Keynesian economics. Do you know how many people would be out of a job if we didn't have a drug war? My economics professor tells me what matters is how many jobs there are, and it is not my place to judge the relative value of those jobs.

[RedWorker]

Why are two issues being conflated here? I don't use drugs or alcohol - the latter is possibly the dumbest drug. That said, I am completely against their illegalization for various reasons - from both the perspective of individual liberty, not following conservative moralism and understanding of the problems illegalization of drugs causes around the world.

[Cliff Paul]

the latter is possibly the dumbest drug

those are fighting words

[BIXX]

Ah, the supposed dichotomy between drugs and alcohol that exists not based on any pharmacology but purely as a result of historic and cultural precedence. Alcohol being what has to be one of the most common recreational drugs it is the most prone for the development of drug problems and addictions.

But let's talk about drug problems. The usual concept, it's quite old now, is that you take this drug and because of that you get addicted and that causes loads of social problems... It just doesn't make sense though, does it? If that's how it works then surely society would have crumbled already. In medicine, for example, there is a huge amount of opiate use. No doubt a sizeable proportion of people on this board have at one time or another been prescribed a course of opiates and it's not resulted in any such problems.

It's from an old experiment on rats. So you take a rat, put it in a cage all alone with 2 water bottles. One with water and the other laced with heroin. The rat will go after the heroin time and time again until it kills itself.

But back in the 70s professer Bruce Alexander did a different experiment. He created a cage with other rats, provided toys, tunnels for them to roam about in, high quality food and the two water bottles, one a control and the other laced. They barely touched it and none of them died.

The thing is the problem's not the drugs it's the cage. An individual facing poverty, social isolation and a lack of varied stimuli is the cause. It is in this where it intersects with socialism. The destruction of alienation, being able to fully take part in social life, being able to fully develop ones latent faculties etc is the only way to tackle drug addiction.
I find this to be one of the most interesting posts in the thread.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Crediting drug abuse either wholly to environmental factors or biological factors is problematic...there have been people with good lives, plenty of potential and strong support networks who've become addicted to drugs. I'm sure anyone who knows any drug addicts knows at least one or two who came from one of the "good cages". IMO drug abuse is a complex problem and can't simply be rendered down entirely to some cause-and-effect model of "x is the result of y", although it goes without saying that a person's environment has a huge impact on their behavior...

[Sewer Socialist]

Marijuana helps get through the day at my shitty job.

[Sea]

I snorted a line of wasabi once.
I injected three marijuanas once, I almost diedAre you sure you injected it right? You're supposed to use a funnel and push it in by hand. Using a syringe doesn't work.
I only drink alcohol. Although I'm not particularly bothered if others wish to do drugs, it's just not for me.Alcohol is a drug. It's surprisingly similar to barbiturates, in fact, both in effects and mechanism of action. I'm not just saying this to be pedantic either. I'm saying it because it means drugs are for you! So go forth my child, and do drugs. :)

[The Intransigent Faction]

I find this to be one of the most interesting posts in the thread.

I agree. Resolving the legalization debate won't resolve problems with drug abuse, because that debate fits easily enough within the narrow range of 'solutions' provided by contemporary politics. Will the state be a more responsible dealer than street gangs? Perhaps, but relying on state supervision of the drug trade to solve problems of drug abuse brings other problems with it.

[Slavic]

I find the moral arguments in some of these posts odd.

As long as you are not harming anyone, who cares what substance you ingest. As long as the drugs are affixiated with the proper labels and warnings concerning health effects if injested, you should be free to consume what ever you want. Pot, heroin, Draino, ground up cat.

I do have qualms with being high while laboring in a worksite. It is proven that some drugs have adverse effects on coordination and somatic responses, and I think any socialist would be against the use of such drugs on any worksite, pre or post revolution.

[Futility Personified]

The issue is not really drug use, as long as you aren't harming anyone else with your behaviour, then go ahead, do what you want. The issues lie in the circumstances that promote excessive drug use, dependency and suffering, because you basically want to have a good time, like any human being, pro-paint huffing or not.

Drugs have given me some exceptional times, they have also given me some shit times. As aforementioned the idea that drugs and alcohol are separate is bollocks, SWIM takes quarter of a gram of MDMA, talks loads of bollocks, maybe becomes too trusting, but relates to people on an essentially human level. There is also dancing. There's the crippling (for me at least) anxiety and misery the next day, but there are ways of alleviating that and remembering gravity, if it goes up, it has to go down.

When i'm drunk, i'll still talk a load of bollocks, I might still become too trusting, I might even experience an embarrasing euphoria. But i'll also run the risk of crying, getting angry and violent, doing some unpleasant shit, and STILL getting the post-intoxication misery session.

That said, I do like drinking and I like most drugs. Depending on the company or what you aim to achieve, the day after can be more than worth it.

[Slavic]

The issue is not really drug use, as long as you aren't harming anyone else with your behaviour, then go ahead, do what you want. The issues lie in the circumstances that promote excessive drug use, dependency and suffering, because you basically want to have a good time, like any human being, pro-paint huffing or not.

Preciously, circumstances that can increase the change of excessive drug use and dependency such as mental illnesses should be the only drug related issue that should concern socialists.

Finding ways to remedy such illnesses can decrease instances of excessive drug use and dependency. Any other stance regarding drug use is just pandering to morals.

[Os Cangaceiros]

A quarter gram of MDMA, that's a pretty hefty dose...

[Futility Personified]

To be fair i've found that people's dosage with MD varies like crazy, but there are also quite reasonable deviations on purity from place to place. It did get to a point where SWIM could round off a night on about a gram with 4 drops. I've also met people who got by on about a 10th for a whole night, on the same stuff. MDMA purity is supposed to have gone up in the last year. Thinking back on it now, remembering the tentative steps towards dosage in the early stages of that 'career' and then the somewhat haphazard 'eyeball I know it all paul' attitude that came about, that was foolhardy to say the least.

From a harm reduction perpective, correct information on the safe overall amount along with reasonable dosage amounts (or recommended daily allowance depending on your vibe) and being informed of the legit amount of actual active ingredient in there (not just 'it's pure man') is something that is just a no-brainer. There will always be juvenile machismo fuelled antics, but at least you can give them concrete parameters within which to be silly.

[Rafiq]

Alcohol is, on a personal or individual level a horrible drug. It is however still a social drug that binds collective groups of people together in ways otherwise not possible, depending on the circumstance of course.

It is also a drug, in great moderation that can be less socially and mentally harmful than even using LSD here or there. It's a drug that becomes harmful when it's abused, but many psychedelic drugs are really unpredictable and can fuck you up for long periods of time. That is of course a personal assessment, and has nothing to do with a justification for its criminality.

[Slavic]

but many psychedelic drugs are really unpredictable and can fuck you up for long periods of time. That is of course a personal assessment, and has nothing to do with a justification for its criminality.

The condition for this condition is extremely rare and honestly shouldn't be used as a basis for judging the use of psychedelics.

[Rafiq]

The condition for this condition is extremely rare and honestly shouldn't be used as a basis for judging the use of psychedelics.

Well it's true that it shouldn't be a substitution for real studies and tests and so forth, but from personal experience almost everyone I know who uses them regularly isn't 'all there' and the worst of them conceive them as some kind of grand new age esque transcendental experience.

[mushroompizza]

The best way to eliminate drug use is total legalization, after alcohol was legalized post-prohibition use rates dramatically dropped almost immediately.

[Smash Monogamy]

Drugs are a preparation for living in post-revolutionary society. Under communism, virtually everyone will spend their days loitering and getting fucked up. Sobriety is reactionary, it's the "false consciousness" Marx was referring to. Communism is an unending heroin nod.

[motion denied]

Drugs are a preparation for living in post-revolutionary society. Under communism, virtually everyone will spend their days loitering and getting fucked up. Sobriety is reactionary, it's the "false consciousness" Marx was referring to. Communism is an unending heroin nod.


reminded me of this for some reason

http://greatmomentsinleftism.blogspot.com.br/2013/08/the-situationist-international.html

[Slavic]

Well it's true that it shouldn't be a substitution for real studies and tests and so forth, but from personal experience almost everyone I know who uses them regularly isn't 'all there' and the worst of them conceive them as some kind of grand new age esque transcendental experience.

I understand your rationale, it is just a pet peeve of mine when people chastise psychedelic substances because "it makes you go crazy".

I have done psychedelic substances upwards of a hundred instances, and have known many heavy users like myself, none of which succumbed to any form of psychosis. Meta-physical hippie babble aside, these are all anecdotal.

[BIXX]

Honestly I don't think psychedelics aren't for me (mentally illness history with family and self) but if I could guarantee that they wouldn't fuck time too hard I'd be totally into them I think.

[Rafiq]

I have done psychedelic substances upwards of a hundred instances, and have known many heavy users like myself, none of which succumbed to any form of psychosis. Meta-physical hippie babble aside, these are all anecdotal.

That's good, and I'm sure there are many people who don't experience harmful effects. At the same time, when effects are harmful, it isn't because of abusing the drugs but because of chance. That is why, in a way, they can be more dangerous than alcohol.

[Lily Briscoe]

That's good, and I'm sure there are many people who don't experience harmful effects. At the same time, when effects are harmful, it isn't because of abusing the drugs but because of chance.

I don't think this is actually very true. Setting is much more of a factor in profoundly negative experiences than 'chance', and there are pretty simple things people can do in terms of controlling the environment in which they use psychedelics which massively reduce the probability of having an experience with lasting harmful effects.

Idk, I get that negative experiences can be really jarring and disturbing, but it's annoying when people have a bad trip and then attribute that experience to some inherent feature of psychedelics rather than recognizing that they were probably pretty careless/irresponsible in the way that they used them.

Also, with regard to the 'people who use psychedelics aren't all there' generalization, it seems pretty obvious to me that it's much more a case of the subcultures around those substances disproportionately attracting weirdos, rather than psychedelics turning 'normal' people into vegetables/nutters/whatever.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Hopefully with the trend towards drug policy liberalization in some nations there will be more research into psychedelic drugs and what they do in the brain. Up until now research has been severely hindered by the illegality of the drugs themselves...LSD for example was made illegal three years before the invention of the MRI, so it'd be really interesting to harness technology like that to further study such substances.

[Rafiq]

I've always thought that they could have incredible implications in the domain of psychology

[The Intransigent Faction]

So, apparently grocery stores here will soon be legally permitted to sell beer. How irresponsible!

Seriously, around here liberalization of alcohol sales has pretty solid support, which is actually troubling in a way, but not for moralistic reasons. When the current structures present an image of an anachronistic, paternalistic state using fear tactics to maintain a monopoly (despite that beer is sold by a private consortium which many wrongfully believed to be publicly owned and operated), liberalization is either implied or explicitly claimed to mean greater freedom. Obviously, any notion of the 'free market' as liberator from a moralizing, out-of-touch state is problematic for socialists. Yet, at the same time, the notion of the state as the well-meaning, if occasionally bumbling, people's protector against unscrupulous companies is also problematic.

[Sewer Socialist]

That dichotomy itself creates an inability to think beyond the capitalist mode of production, to understand socialism, and what we might dare to move towards.

[Bala Perdida]

As far as narcotics are concerned, yeah I see the need for them to be liberated. Liberated as in better access to cleaner product and such. Less of the need to make diluted substances out of broken glass, rat poison, and kerosene. Also to keep the plants from being eradicated and access to antidotes and clean equipment and such. That's my general view on sed things.

[Dirknight]

Legalize it all.

Produce, grow and sell it lower than any street criminal! Clean drugs themselves would save alot of lifes. Most importantly information has to be released. There is nearly 0 official detailed information on drugs. I personally would like to know human limits, cheimcals contained, effects of the body and mind.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

drugs feel almost as good as purging the party of revisionists. almost.

[cyu]

Was going over this some more, but is it an issue between hedonists and spartans? One cares mainly for pleasure, the other cares mainly for conquest. Swing too far in the direction of pleasure, and your society is conquered by neighboring spartans. Swing too far in the direction of conquest, and your society is torn apart internally by increasing misery. Seems you'd need a balance between pleasure, and the ability to protect that pleasure.

More off-topic, but the theory of empire might be one way to ensure the emperor's pleasure, while also protecting his security. In the long run though, if his empire results in the spread of misery and number of enemies, it works against his security. Seems if you had a society that actually finds pleasure in helping to protect one another, that may be one of the most stable philosophies.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I don't think there's any dichotomy between conquest and pleasure.

I don't think we need to get philosophical about drug prohibition. There were various concrete historical trends (like progressive-era beliefs that we can legislate successfully against moral vice like alcohol, the rise of mass media, etc) combined with the fact that a lot of people figured out that they could become very wealthy by criminalizing people's disorders & banning certain substances. Drug prohibition hasn't always been around and one day it'll be relegated to the same category of failed experimentation that alcohol prohibition is in.

[The Intransigent Faction]

I don't think there's any dichotomy between conquest and pleasure.

I don't think we need to get philosophical about drug prohibition. There were various concrete historical trends (like progressive-era beliefs that we can legislate successfully against moral vice like alcohol, the rise of mass media, etc) combined with the fact that a lot of people figured out that they could become very wealthy by criminalizing people's disorders & banning certain substances. Drug prohibition hasn't always been around and one day it'll be relegated to the same category of failed experimentation that alcohol prohibition is in.

Out of curiosity, was prohibition really so ineffective in terms of its immediate aim of preventing access to alcohol? We have this image of nouveau-riche sipping whatever in The Great Gatsby, but would the price of bootlegged and more scarce alcoholic beverages not be prohibitive for the working poor?

[Sinister Intents]

I've always thought that they could have incredible implications in the domain of psychology

If you want to see the affects of drugs and analyze them. I'll buy myself a pound of somethin' or other and you can take notes while I'm stoned or tripping. You might learn something fascinating, be bored as shit, or be completely disturbed out of your mind. When I do shrooms I feel at peace and one with myself and the universe, when I smoke weed my anxiety dies and I become intensely introspective and hyperanalytical. Wanna talk about my drug use for your own knowledge? Just PM me if you're interested

[Os Cangaceiros]

Out of curiosity, was prohibition really so ineffective in terms of its immediate aim of preventing access to alcohol? We have this image of nouveau-riche sipping whatever in The Great Gatsby, but would the price of bootlegged and more scarce alcoholic beverages not be prohibitive for the working poor?

Well it was somewhat effective in reducing alcohol consumption, particularly in rural areas. But clearly it was a failure in historical hindsight, because it once enjoyed a widespread support across a broad spectrum of society and within a couple decades it pretty much died with a whimper as policy

[John Nada]

I think all the "soft" drugs should be straight up legalized. "Hard" drugs might be available in diluted form, or by prescription for addicts. They're just never going to disappear. All ran by socialized medicine, no big pharma profits.

Funny thing is, in many ex-Eastern Bloc countries, I don't think a lot drugs were ever actually banned in many of them. The Soviets didn't banned many drugs until 70's, but there was still a lot of shit OTC that would surprise you. A lot of the LSD in the 60's came from Czechoslovakia. So the socialist position is: prohibition is Brezhnevite revision!:D

IIRC it was only China and Vietnam that actually banned drugs, due the ramped addiction pandemic forced onto these nations by the imperialist. I wonder how they were able to rehabilitate the addicts? Going from 1/5 addicted to heroin to almost eradicated in the case of China is just unreal.
We have this image of nouveau-riche sipping whatever in The Great Gatsby, but would the price of bootlegged and more scarce alcoholic beverages not be prohibitive for the working poor?I remember the movie adaptation of that book said alcohol was cheaper than ever. But I remember hearing somewhere that a bottle of beer cost the equivalent of $10, and a bottle of liquor cost like $100+, adjusted for inflation. Now the poor today can get drugs for around that price but fuck. Alcohol withdraws is a twisted motherfucker. I'm not surprised crime skyrocketed. Movies make it seem like it was fun, but I'd imagine a lot of speakeasies were more like crackhouses, and drunks lived like crackheads, just hustling for cash. Seems like the glamorous side of prohibitions focused on, but I'd like to know how the average alcoholic lived.

[mushroompizza]

Drug Prohibition was a method of the conservative bourgeoisie to control minorities (especially Mexicans) after Prohibition failed. To continue to prosecute people for drugs is to continue the bourgeoisie struggle to control the worker.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

but would the price of bootlegged and more scarce alcoholic beverages not be prohibitive for the working poor?

Only if you didn't know where to get it.

Take it from someone who has a history of moonshine making in their family history. In the rural areas, moonshine stills popped up like weeds all over the South. Not only was it easy to make (find a bag of yeast and some copper line, and you're pretty much set) it was also pretty cheap.

[John Nada]

Only if you didn't know where to get it.

Take it from someone who has a history of moonshine making in their family history. In the rural areas, moonshine stills popped up like weeds all over the South. Not only was it easy to make (find a bag of yeast and some copper line, and you're pretty much set) it was also pretty cheap.Shit, you don't even need the yeast. Alcohol producing microbes are ubiquitous. Might taste like shit, but leaving something with carbohydrates out for airborne microbes will make some alcohol. That white frost on grapes is yeast. I don't see how it was even possible to ban alcohol. In prison they make white-lighting this way, by distilling pruno.

They used to sell "bread making kits'. It was malt and yeast, supposedly to make bread but was really for alcohol. If I could find it, it'd be great for my food stamp dependent ass.

[Sewer Socialist]

If ya'll are making gross hooch, you might as well distill it:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-still/
http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/home-distilling-zw0z1212zmat.aspx

The first set of instructions don't really seem to understand how to use a still - you're supposed to separate the good from the bad. Also, possibly illegal where you live. Also, creating flammables and using a pressure cooker could be dangerous; doing this outside is safer if you don't know what you're doing.

If you want to achieve something like barrel aging for cheap, get some oak chips from a homebrewing store and soak them in your moonshine to take the edge off. You can also soak spices in it to make things like gin.

I would not recommend "aging" it in the open air - I'm not sure why that wouldn't evaporate. Also, the article doesn't mention that this will make pretty high proof stuff that you'd usually want to water down - it can be up to 190 proof which is, again, super flammable. You can be precise with an alcometer, otherwise you can just mix 1:1 to get something reasonable.

[mushroompizza]

You could just huff insect repellent for a buzz.

[John Nada]

You could just huff insect repellent for a buzz.Fuck that! Get golden spray paint, starter fluid or gasoline if you want permanent brain damage for a cheap buzz.:lol: And I strongly discourage all of these. The damage/fun ratio is just not worth it. Which coming from me says something.:(

Get "whip cream chargers", "VCR cleaners" or "room aromas"(all used in medicine) from the smoke shop if one must smell something. Even better grow up and buy alcohol, cough syrup or real shit that's less dangerous and damaging than huffing.

[OGG]

Don't really care about drugs tbh

[The Modern Prometheus]

I have nothing against anyone using drugs as it is their own bodies and thus their own free will to put whatever substance they want in it as long as they are not hurting anyone else. The problems that arise from drug use such as violence related to trafficking and overdoses is due exclusively to prohibition. If people could legally buy Diamorphine aka Heroin or Cocaine in a drug store sold the way liquor is the drug cartels would collapse in a week and overdoses would go down as well as most as due to not knowing what is the dose or purity of street drugs.

The only drug i use recreationally these days on a regular basis is Cannabis really. Alcohol kicks the shit out of me and stopped being fun in my early 20's and i only use stimulants such as Cocaine or Amphetamines a few times a year as i can't handle the comedowns like i used to. I do take Clonazepam for anxiety as well as to help my mania and Morphine for severe chronic pain but i rarely use enough of either to get anything approaching a high these days. Plus i have been on both so long they have just become boring and like any other medications i take. Not that Benzodiazepines such as Clonazepam are very recreational for most people anyway.


You could just huff insect repellent for a buzz.

I can't stress how dangerous huffing is. The only drugs safe to huff are Nitrous Oxide and Amyl and Buthyl Nitrate. You can die the very first time from sniffing glue, gasoline or any other solvent due to it's cardiotoxicity. That's not scare mongering either it's called Sudden Sniffing Death Syndrome. If that doesn't get you you are very likely to end up with severe permanent brain damage, damage to the central nervous system and multiple organ damage. My aunt who has worked in a nursing home has had to look after people in their 20's and younger who are vegetables unable to look after themselves anymore because of chronic inhalant abuse. She said it's a sad sight to see to say the least.

So if you want a great high from inhaling something get some whippets or something that has Nitrous in it. It is a very safe drug that is virtually non toxic as well though i would not advise sniffing it all day. Just make sure to take B-12 supplements with it as Nitrous especially with heavy or continuous use can cause B-12 depletion. Hitting nitrous while high on Ketamine is definitely one of my favorite drug combos for sure :)

[Os Cangaceiros]

^ Clonazepam ("Klonopin") is one of my favorite drugs...if I had to only live with two drugs for the rest of my life, it would definitely be one of the two (the other would be cannabis). It's just so practical yet also really enjoyable in my opinion.

The only things I don't like about it are 1) I get EXTREMELY hungry on it, and 2) it makes me slightly more stupid (or at least I feel slightly more stupid while on it).

[The Modern Prometheus]

^ Clonazepam ("Klonopin") is one of my favorite drugs...if I had to only live with two drugs for the rest of my life, it would definitely be one of the two (the other would be cannabis). It's just so practical yet also really enjoyable in my opinion.

The only things I don't like about it are 1) I get EXTREMELY hungry on it, and 2) it makes me slightly more stupid (or at least I feel slightly more stupid while on it).

Really? I have been taking it for anxiety everyday for about the past 10 years and i have yet to get anything resembling euphoria from it. Sure it add's to the relaxation of Cannabis and the sedation of opiates but that's about it for me. It did cure my crippling anxiety though as well as help my mania and neuropathic pain so it has been a great drug for me for medical use.

And yes benzodiazepines can make some people hungry and they can make you feel kind of stupid and cause poor memory if you take too much of it or are suseptible to those side effects. My memory and thinking actually improved after going on Clonazepam as i no longer was having constant panic attacks or the awful brain fog caused by constant anxiety.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I mean, it's not euphoric in the way that, say, meth or heroin is, and that's why a lot of people don't think it's recreational. I don't really take it for recreational purposes, anyway...the range of doses I do with clonazepam range from 1-2 mgs, which are just therapeutic doses.

The physical sensation of the drug is really nice due to it's muscle relaxation properties and also it's calming neuropathic effect (it's prescribed to multiple sclerosis patients for this reason), and the mental sensation...is incredible IMO. It's a feeling that everything is "right" in the world. I have mild anxiety but I imagine for someone with severe anxiety something like clonazepam has the potential to be addictive.

I've tried at least 8 different drugs in the benzodiazepine family and it's my favorite. I can take clonazepam in the afternoon one day, go to sleep that night, and wake up the next day feeling incredible, and that feeling lasts all day. There's no such thing as a "miracle drug" but it's about the closest I've ever encountered, pharmaceutical-wise.

[The Modern Prometheus]

For some odd reason Clonazepam's only on label use in Canada is as a Anti-Convulsant though it's most prescribed use is as a anti-anxiety drug. I am prescribed 6mg's a day and have been for about 8 years i guess which is considered alot of Clonazepam. But i have never become psychologically addicted to it and have only run out early a handful of times in the time i have been on it. I like it because it has a really long method of action and long half life so unlike say Ativan or worse Xanax you don't have to keep redosing nearly as often.

I have trigeminal Neuralgia which is often caused by MS which thank fuck i do not have as TN is bad enough thank you very much. Clonazepam helps the facial spasms and the nerve pain more then any other benzodiazepine i have tried and certainly more then junk like Gabapentin and Lyrica have. Since i have anxiety which was severe to the point of being crippling before i went on Clonazepam, Bipolar disorder and Neuropathic pain my chronic pain doc and former psychiatrist just suggested i up my Clonazepam dose to help my pain. Why Clonazepam is the only benzo indicated to treat trigeminal neuralgia and other forms of neuropathic pain i don't know but it's probably due to it's strong anti-convulsant effects or it's long method of action.

I would have to say though in terms of a muscle relaxant i find Valium and Temazepam to work better then Clonazepam but everyone is different.

[StromboliFucker666]

I smoke weed and I drink. I usually smoke weed a few times a week and drink about once a week/