Ukrainian parliament passes a law banning "Communist ideology and propaganda"

[Dire Helix]

On April 9, the Ukrainian Rada passed 4 pieces of legislation submitted by the government that ban all symbols and propaganda of communism. After the law comes into effect, any monuments of communist figures which have not already been destroyed by fascist thugs in the last few months must be demolished. As well, any cities and streets which are named after communists are to be renamed.

In order to justify this legislation, the ruling parties have resorted to the trick of equating Communism and Nazism. Thus, the preamble of the law says: “The draft law is aimed at condemning Communist and National Socialist (Nazi) criminal totalitarian regimes at the legislative level, implementation of the ban on public denial of the criminal nature of totalitarian regimes, banning public use of symbols and propaganda, the introduction of the State’s obligation to carry out an investigation and disclosure the crimes committed by members of these totalitarian regimes to prevent the recurrence of such crimes in the future, eliminate threats to the sovereignty, territorial integrity and national security of Ukraine, as well as for historical justice”


The law specifically mentions the “production”, “circulation” or “public utilisation” of symbols of these “totalitarian regimes”. The list of banned items includes the Soviet flag and anthem as well as monuments and historical plaques commemorating communist leaders. Penalties for violating the law range from five to 10 years. The anti-propaganda legislation is concerned with communist symbols from 1917 to 1991.


http://www.marxist.com/ukrainian-parliament-bans-communist-symbols.htm

Aside from the things already mentioned in the news article above, the law also bans:

- public display of the coats of arms of any of the Union republics as well as those of the historical socialist states(including Yugoslavia and the People's Socialist Republic of Albania)

- justifying the Bolshevik revolution(referred to as a coup in the official documents, of course) or the establishment of the Soviet rule in Ukraine

- justifying the actions of the Red Army and Soviet partisans in Ukraine during WWII

Regarding the legal status of Marxism, according to Yuri Lutsenko(the leader of Petro Poroshenko's Block) and several other state officials, you can still read Marxist literature, but you are not allowed to quote from it, reproduce it, sell it or promote it, otherwise you'll be chilling in jail for the next five years or so.

[Sinister Intents]

So essentially a communist movement will be pushed underground, I feel like this will backfire like when prohibition of alcohol was being utilized in the USA. The mafia helped the rise pf a black market and capitalized on it. Certainly the banning of socialist and communist literature will have an effect where the law creates a taboo that people will go after?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

This is par for the course in the glorious democratic (and, of course, ethnically cleansed of Russians) European Union, meaning the good old regime in Kiev is probably on the fast track to EU membership.

[Dire Helix]

So essentially a communist movement will be pushed underground, I feel like this will backfire like when prohibition of alcohol was being utilized in the USA. The mafia helped the rise pf a black market and capitalized on it. Certainly the banning of socialist and communist literature will have an effect where the law creates a taboo that people will go after?

Everything even slightly to the left of Pinochet or, given the regional specifics, Stepan Bandera, is already underground. The few activists who dared raise vital social and economic demands during the Maidan events last year barely managed to get out alive(that they shouldn't have appeared at that liberal/nazi get-together is another matter). Many leftists have already left Ukraine to escape violence at the hands of the far-right "territorial battalions" who've been essentially granted a free reign inside the country.

Regarding whether the ban will have any positive effect at all... Given the level of social and economic degradation and the extent to which the increasingly lumpenized masses are affected with petty-bourgeois illusions and rabid nationalism, I expect things to only get worse.

[John Nada]

- public display of the coats of arms of any of the Union republics as well as those of the historical socialist states(including Yugoslavia and the People's Socialist Republic of Albania)That going to be a problem with diplomats and tourist from countries like China or Vietnam.
- justifying the Bolshevik revolution(referred to as a coup in the official documents, of course) or the establishment of the Soviet rule in UkraineIronically the Bolsheviks were the biggest advocates for Ukrainians. The Tsarist regime tried to suppress Ukrainian language and culture, belittled them by calling them "Little Russians". Lenin said that they were an oppressed nation with the right to self-determination, and Russians should set things right. The Soviets encouraged Ukrainian's to learn their language and culture(with greater success in the west and rural areas), even had something similar to affirmative action. Ukraine achieved the status of a Soviet Republic, as opposed to a German colony under the Hetmanate.
- justifying the actions of the Red Army and Soviet partisans in Ukraine during WWIIOver 4 million Ukrainians served in the Red Army, versus 500,000 tops(more likely 20,000-50,000) collaborating with the Banderites. Why is a relatively small group exalted, and a large group condemned? I see that 5 billion dollar the US spent on "promoting democracy" has paid off.

[Atsumari]

This law is very unfortunate in regards to honesty in history, but knowing the rhetoric and ideology of Ukrainian "communists," will this law going to affect communist and worker's struggles or Russian nationalism more?

[Antiochus]

Certainly the banning of socialist and communist literature will have an effect where the law creates a taboo that people will go after?

Not necessarily. In the U.S proscriptions of Communists (and leftists in general) absolutely destroyed these movements whereby today saying you are a communist is tantamount to saying you have schizophrenia or something. At least if you're a schizo you'll get pity.

And as pointed out by Atsumari, this law has other purposes. As far as I know, Communism is virtually non-existent in Ukraine. So what exactly is the point of "going after them"? My take is that given the fact that the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR and the fact that far-right/nationalist Russian groups love to utilize signs of Lenin/the USSR (Stalin too) in order to "internationalize" their hegemonic agendas, this is more about attacking people with pro-Russian sympathies. For example, supporters of the National Bolsheviks (a neo-Nazi Russian group) would be far more affected than any genuine Communist movement (which were already underground as far as I can tell). And off course, it doesn't hurt the fact that by going after "Communism", they can associate the Putinists with the USSR, thereby killing two birds with one stone, by linking two ideologically different enemies (in Ukraine the USSR is already reviled).

[tuwix]

On April 9, the Ukrainian Rada passed 4 pieces of legislation submitted by the government that ban all symbols and propaganda of communism. After the law comes into effect, any monuments of communist figures which have not already been destroyed by fascist thugs in the last few months must be demolished. As well, any cities and streets which are named after communists are to be renamed.

In Poland, we have such law too. But there was nobody sentenced by this law. So I think in Ukraine there can be similar significance of such law...

[Atsumari]

In Ukraine, the law will most certainly be enforced given that they are in a state of war and that it was created due to the current state of Ukraine.

[Dire Helix]

That going to be a problem with diplomats and tourist from countries like China or Vietnam.

The law specifically mentions that those countries that presently use communist/socialist symbols in their coat of arms are to be made an exception.



This law is very unfortunate in regards to honesty in history, but knowing the rhetoric and ideology of Ukrainian "communists," will this law going to affect communist and worker's struggles or Russian nationalism more?

Why are communists in quotation marks? And I think it's clear as day that a law banning communist propaganda and agitation is going to affect communist propaganda and agitation first and foremost. No more Marxist lectures, seminars or handing out leaflets. It's that simple. I have no idea why it's being spun by some to appear as something else.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Why are communists in quotation marks? And I think it's clear as day that a law banning communist propaganda and agitation is going to affect communist propaganda and agitation first and foremost. No more Marxist lectures, seminars or handing out leaflets. It's that simple. I have no idea why it's being spun by some to appear as something else.

Because the current so-called Ukrainian "communist" party is, like the rotten sack of odious nationalist rubbish that is the KPRF, not really communist at all.

[Dire Helix]

Because the current so-called Ukrainian "communist" party is, like the rotten sack of odious nationalist rubbish that is the KPRF, not really communist at all.
No shit? Why, thank you! I had no clue and if not for you, would no doubt still be in the dark in respect to the nature of these organizations.

On a serious note, why are Ukrainian communists being generalized as having relation to the CPU? Should we henceforth assume that the term American communist necessarily implies membership or support of the CPUSA?

[BITW434]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm under the impression that most of the self-proclaimed Marxists in Ukraine would share a similar sentiment to our 'glorious anti-fascist comrade' Antonina Khromova (a former Communist MP) who declared that Ukraine does not need European values such as 'same-sex marriage' and 'African panhandling'.
While I obviously oppose any laws which are anti-communist in nature, I'm struggling to give a shit about the plight of the Communist Party of Ukraine...

[BITW434]

On a serious note, why are Ukrainian communists being generalized as having relation to the CPU? Should we henceforth assume that the term American communist necessarily implies membership or support of the CPUSA?
Where are these supposed Ukrainian communists who aren't massive homophobes, racists, social conservatives and Russian chauvinists? They seems to be very few and far between...

[Rurkel]

This law is extremely harsh, and, as written, does not affect only the CPU, which now holds no parliament seats and is totally demoralized - it as a party can't throw its lot with the separatist republics in the East, although some of its individual members did, and it can't play on Ukrainian nationalism, given that the current government and the far-rightists with which it is allied with, play that card far better - which they are now doing with these laws, probably in order to create more "national unity" crap in the face of the awful state of Ukraine's economy. It's a blanket ban on soviet communist stuff (1917-1991) in general, although it's rather unclear to me how it will proceed in practice.

[cyu]

I have my own list of suspected government agents based on their past opinions of the situation in Ukraine - no matter though, the successful propagandist is able to speak even to the spies ;)

Reminds me of the anti-leftist incompetence under Pinochet though. The ruling class that the CIA is trying to install is feeling desperate, and as a sign of their desperation, resorts to the most blatant forms of suppression. It would be sadly pitiful if not for the fact that those sociopaths will end up killing so many people - and many have died already in the east - but hey, what do sociopaths care right? Pawns, innocent bystanders, they might as well be insects - games without frontiers.

[Sasha]

funny how revleft is always up in arms about these kind of laws that in general never end up targeting the real revolutionary left but cant be bothered about "anti-extremism" laws and designated police forces in places like russia that abuse, lock up and torture the revolutionary left non stop.
tankie LARPers gonna tankie LARP i guess

[Dire Helix]

While I obviously oppose any laws which are anti-communist in nature, I'm struggling to give a shit about the plight of the Communist Party of Ukraine...

Except the law doesn't make any mention of CPU. At all.


Where are these supposed Ukrainian communists who aren't massive homophobes, racists, social conservatives and Russian chauvinists? They seems to be very few and far between...

None of the ones I know are what you described. The revolutionary communist movement in contemporary Russia and Ukraine is still at a pre-circle level if we are to draw rough parallels with pre-1917 Russia. If you are expecting a large, visible party of professional revolutionaries, I'm afraid you'll have to wait a while.



funny how revleft is always up in arms about these kind of laws that in general never end up targeting the real revolutionary left but cant be bothered about "anti-extremism" laws and designated police forces in places like russia that abuse, lock up and torture the revolutionary left non stop.
tankie LARPers gonna tankie LARP i guess

As always, you are way too obvious, dude. Are you ever going to own up to your shitty crypto-liberal politics in regards to the events in Ukraine and Syria, or will you keep resorting to these pathetic cop-outs.

[Apollodorus]

Well at least the Right Sector and the Azov Battalion won't be happy as well...

[Sasha]

Better a crypto-liberal than a nazbol...

[Rurkel]

Well at least the Right Sector and the Azov Battalion won't be happy as well...

They are unlikely to suffer from the new law, which defines its anti-Nazi symbols part rather narrowly - only against state symbols of Nazi Germany and the NSDAP. Azov's Wolfsangel and many other neo-Nazi symbols are neither.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

funny how revleft is always up in arms about these kind of laws that in general never end up targeting the real revolutionary left but cant be bothered about "anti-extremism" laws and designated police forces in places like russia that abuse, lock up and torture the revolutionary left non stop.
tankie LARPers gonna tankie LARP i guess

Of course these laws will target "the real revolutionary left" only sporadically, since the communist movement is minuscule in the Ukraine. The people that will be targeted are going to include anyone who objects to the glorification of Banderaite fascists, as well as any Russian activists. As for the laws in Russia, people do complain about them - as they should. I remember most people being correctly opposed to the law against "homosexual propaganda", for example. But if your "revolutionary left" are people like Vladimir Zadiraka and Oleg Vernik, that's part of the problem.

[Dire Helix]

Better a crypto-liberal than a nazbol...

Sasha's false dilemma.



They are unlikely to suffer from the new law, which defines its anti-Nazi symbols part rather narrowly - only against state symbols of Nazi Germany and the NSDAP. Azov's Wolfsangel and many other neo-Nazi symbols are neither.

Exactly. Nazism is only there to further stigmatize communism and draw a false equivalency between the two. The law makes no mention of the swastika, Nazi insignias, 14/88 or any of the fascist regimes and movements that existed throughout Europe. If anything, things are going to be even easier for the Ukrainian far-right from now on.

[BITW434]

Except the law doesn't make any mention of CPU. At all.

Just because the law doesn't explicitly reference the Communist Party of Ukraine, it was quite obviously done to curb their influence. I don't think the Ukrainian government gives a shit about these irrelevant Marxists (no disrespect to them) that you know. This legislation was passed with the sole intention of making life difficult for the nominally socialist CPU and their quasi fascist friends who exist primarily to serve Russia's imperialist interests.

[Dire Helix]

Just because the law doesn't explicitly reference the Communist Party of Ukraine, it was quite obviously done to curb their influence. I don't think the Ukrainian government gives a shit about these irrelevant Marxists (no disrespect to them) that you know. This legislation was passed with the sole intention of making life difficult for the nominally socialist CPU and their quasi fascist friends who exist primarily to serve Russia's imperialist interests.

It quite obviously wasn't. Ukrainian economy is standing one leg in the grave and social catastrophe is no longer a prospect, but a reality that most Ukrainians have to deal with on a daily basis. In this dire situation, the official propaganda has been actively shifting the blame for the economic woes on the "totalitarian past" and insufficient "decommunization". The history of Ukraine is being re-written and destroyed as we speak to avoid any unfavorable comparisons between the current third-world debt-colony and the developed industrial nation that Ukraine once was. It's the historical socialist experiments they are after, the legitimacy of our movement as well as any material reminders that struggle for a better society can exist under a different banner and pursue different ends. The already anemic CPU is merely collateral damage at this point.

[John Nada]

Some Google translations of the law:
1. The terms have the following meanings:

1) Communist Party - Russian Social Democratic Labour Party (Bolsheviks) (RSDLP (b), the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) (RCP (b), the All-Union Communist Party (Bolshevik) (VKP (b), the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU ), the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of Ukraine (CP (b) U), Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU), the Communist Party of Soviet republics, which were part of the Soviet Union and their cell autonomous Soviet socialist republics, territories, regions, autonomous regions , autonomous regions, cities of republican subordination and local branches;It lists the CPU, but also lists those raving racists homophobes of the Russian Social Democrat Labour Party. You know, the ones who legalize homosexuality back when LGBT people were being imprisoned and murdered in the street in the US and Britain.:rolleyes:
4) marks the communist totalitarian regime - symbols include: a) any image state flags, emblems and other symbols of the Soviet Union, USSR (USSR), other union or autonomous Soviet republics of the USSR states so-called "people's democracy": People's Republic of Albania (Socialist People's Republic of Albania), the People's Republic of Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, the People's Republic of Romania (Socialist Republic of Romania), the Hungarian People's Republic, the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic, the Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia (Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) and socialist republics that were part of it, except those which are in force ( applicable) flags or emblems of the world;I see a loophole. China, Vietnam and Cuba aren't listed. Ukrainian communists will just have to get acquainted with the works of Ho Chi Minh, Che Guevara, and Mao Zedong. They'll need it anyway.
e) The image of the Communist Party slogans, quotes people who occupied senior positions in the party since the position of Secretary of the District Committee and above[/b], people who occupied senior positions in higher government and administration of the USSR, the Ukrainian SSR (USSR), other union or autonomous Soviet republic government and administration areas of republican subordination (except quotations related to the development of Ukrainian science and culture), workers of the Soviet state security at any level;
g) the name of regions, districts, towns, city districts, parks, boulevards, streets, alleys, descent, passages, avenues, squares, squares, embankments, bridges and other objects of place names of settlements, enterprises, institutions, organizations, who used the names or nicknames of people who occupied senior positions in the party since the position of Secretary of the District Committee and higher and higher by the authorities of the Soviet Union, USSR (USSR), other union or autonomous Soviet republics, worked in the Soviet state security, the name of the Soviet Union, USSR (USSR), other union or autonomous Soviet republics and their derivatives, and the names associated with the activities of the Communist party (including party congresses) anniversary of the October revolution on October 25 (November 7) 1917 establishment of Soviet power in Ukraine or in some administrative units, the struggle against the participants in the struggle for the independence of Ukraine in the twentieth century (except for the names associated with the resistance and the expulsion of the Nazi occupation of Ukraine or the development of Ukrainian science and culture);A lot of names associated with the October Revolution. Lenin's definately a no-no, Marx might not be allowed either, unless he's "associated with the resistance and expulsion of the Nazi occupation of Ukraine or development of Ukrainian science and culture. Technically couldn't Stalin fall under that exemption?:confused: Bandera would.
i) the name of the Communist Party;That's blunt.
Symbols of the National Socialist (Nazi) totalitarian regime - symbols include:

a) The symbolism of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP);
b) The national flag of Nazi Germany of 1939-1945;
c) the national emblem of the Nazi Germany of 1939-1945;
d) the name of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP);
e) image inscription dedicated to events related to the activities of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP);
e) images slogans National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP), quotations persons occupying management positions in the Nazi Party (NSDAP), higher authorities and government of Nazi Germany and the occupied territories it in 1935-1945 respectively.Notice how the ban on communism is pretty fucking broad, but Nazism is limited to German fascism.
2. The above prohibition on making the communist totalitarian regime symbols, symbols of the National Socialist (Nazi) totalitarian regime is not covered by the manufacture of such symbols for further use for the purposes referred to in the third paragraph of this article.
3. The prohibition does not apply to the use of symbols of the communist totalitarian regime, symbols of the National Socialist (Nazi) totalitarian regime in the museum, thematic exhibitions, research, manuals, textbooks and other materials educational and scientific nature (provided it does not denial of the criminal nature of the totalitarian communist regime 1917-1991 years the criminal nature of the National Socialist (Nazi) totalitarian regime), while research and dissemination of their results in no way prohibited by law Ukraine on tombstones, monuments and memorials, located in the cemetery (cemeteries), during the presentation or rehabilitation (including historical) historical events, as well as collecting such symbols.I suppose communist might be able to educate people about Marxism, if the work of Marx and Engels itself falls under the exemption on education and thematic exhibitions.

The punishment for violating the law:
shall be punishable by imprisonment for up to five years, or imprisonment for the same term with confiscation of property or without it.This appears to be a rather harsh law restricting leftist discourse. It clearly isn't aimed and nazbols or other fascists. I think it's in anticipation of the IMF austerity.

[Sasha]

Hey not saying this kind laws are not bad news, but shit like this is happening the world over, like said in russia but we here in the netherlands, after a long development in germany (where the indexation also always tageted the radical left and not only the extreme right) also moved towards what is called an "extremism" analysis. In the EU aligned eastern europe there is just some extra revanchism towards the offical communists, i was just saying its fucking typical who here on revleft are always moaning about when in eastern europe they threathen "muh hammer and sickle" while they dont give a rats arse (and often support) the repression (both at home as in places like russia) of actual revolutionary activists under legislation that is so broad and far reaching they didnt even care to include some silly revanchism to nostalgic symbolism.

[Sasha]

If you can read a bit of dutch this is an excelent article about the situation in germany and the netherlands; http://www.groene.nl/artikel/die-extreme-beruhren-sich

[John Nada]

Hey not saying this kind laws are not bad news, but shit like this is happening the world over, like said in russia but we here in the netherlands, after a long development in germany (where the indexation also always tageted the radical left and not only the extreme right) also moved towards what is called an "extremism" analysis. In the EU aligned eastern europe there is just some extra revanchism towards the offical communists, i was just saying its fucking typical who here on revleft are always moaning about when in eastern europe they threathen "muh hammer and sickle" while they dont give a rats arse (and often support) the repression (both at home as in places like russia) of actual revolutionary activists under legislation that is so broad and far reaching they didnt even care to include some silly revanchism to nostalgic symbolism.Yeah, other countries are fucked up too.

One of the justifications of the bill was in support of the Council of Europe resolution 1481. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe_resolution_1481 . It's preceded the European Parliament Resolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_resolution_of_2_April_2009_on_ European_conscience_and_totalitarianism , about 10 months before that article.

This has me thinking. There's left-wing, right-wing and Islamic extremism(why isn't Islamic extreme part of rightist extremism?). Under their standards burning cars=burning people, which any ration person would say is outrageous and extreme belief. Logically, there should be "centrist extremism".

That article says extremism is persons or groups willing to break the law for their ideology. This should include liberals and conservatives, who, to uphold capitalist "democracy", break international laws by use of torture, assaulting peaceful protesters, robbery(of oil), kidnapping, mass killings through drone strikes, and illegal search and seizure. Meaning the NATO and EU nations are lead by centrist extremists!:ohmy:

The horseshoe theory doesn't take this into account. Hence I propose a new theory. It's called "The Triangle Theory". The triangle has different angles and dimensions, which change approximately every election, war or business cycle. Each point has a different distance from "moderate". That point can be anywhere. The "moderate, rational" position opposite of the extremes' points. That sweet spot is defined as whatever I agree with, everything else is way too extreme! Most scientific and objective measurement thus far.

Having scientifically proven what extremism is, I see a problem. Totalitarian centerist has killed tens of millions of people throughout the world, such as Vietnam and the Congo. A campaign must be waged to combat this. Hence, the Resolution Condemning NeoLiberalism and Imperialism. Triangle theory says it's all the same.

[Dire Helix]

It lists the CPU

It's a different CPU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Ukraine_%28Soviet_Union%29

[Comrade Jacob]

They are scared. This will backfire on them.

[clyder]

As far as I know, Communism is virtually non-existent in Ukraine. So what exactly is the point of "going after them"? ).

No, prior to the junta the CP had enough support to get deputies elected to the parliament, and still exists as an organisation, albeit made up predominantly or older people.

[clyder]

It lists the CPU, but also lists those raving racists homophobes of the Russian Social Democrat Labour Party. You know, the ones who legalize homosexuality back when LGBT people were being imprisoned and murdered in the street in the US and Britain.:rolleyes:

The RSDLP was of course the party headed by Vladimir Ilyich before it took on the name communist party