Dr. Rosenpenis
9th February 2004, 22:03
Apparently their are many militias in Iraq that are refusing to disband despite the US's request taht they do so. They say that they halp the police in "keeping the cities clean" and securing what the US military is not able to.
They are in Iraq now in opposition to American will, but they may be negative nonetheless. According to the article, the people do not like the militias, obviously a quote from someone who believes that Iraqis are benefiting from the occupation. However, they may also divide the country according to ethnicity, the acrticle says.
What do you think will be the result of America's oposition to these militias?
Do you think that they're important in drving America out of Iraq?
If so, are they really a good social force?
Will the American military power structure in Iraq to be replaced by these powerful militias and the political parties they support?
Is that what we want?
Here's the article
Iraqi Militias Resisting U.S. Pressure to Disband
By EDWARD WONG
Published: February 9, 2004
AGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 8 — Several of the biggest political parties in Iraq say they are determined to keep their well-armed militias despite American opposition to the idea.
They contend that the militias remain necessary in light of the lack of security throughout the country.
Having had scant success so far in persuading the militias to disband, occupation officials are searching for a new policy that will help disarm the groups, whose members total in the tens of thousands, said a senior military official.
But less than five months remain until the transfer of sovereignty to an Iraqi government, leaving the Bush administration little time to deal with what many officials here consider an incendiary problem.
In the rugged north, Kurdish militiamen called the pesh merga patrol the roads. In the south, members of the Badr Organization, a militia run by a prominent Shiite political party, work with the police to secure the cities, said the group's leader.
Iraq's instability — and fog-shrouded political future — leave the parties with no incentive to disband the militias, experts say.
"It's all a matter of confidence in the future," said Joost R. Hiltermann, an Iraq expert at the International Crisis Group, a conflict prevention organization. "You're not going to give up your weapons if you think you're going to fight again in the future."
Militia leaders say the groups can help stabilize the country, something they argue that American troops have been unable to do.
Several politicians say they may push to have the Iraqi Governing Council enshrine the existence of the militias in an interim constitution due Feb. 28, with the justification that the armed groups can serve as emergency forces.
Some even suggest that American officials should transfer oversight of security entirely to Iraqi forces — including the militias.
"The issue is just like cleaning the city," said Hassan al-Amari, the leader of the Badr Organization, estimated to have at least 10,000 members. "You can't keep the city clean without the help of the people themselves."
All along, the Americans have worried that private armies like the militias could inflame a nation already divided along ethnic and religious lines. Starting in the mid-1970's, militias fought each other in the Lebanese civil war.
The major militias here are attached to parties dominated by Kurds or Shiite Arabs, who make up a majority of the population but were long excluded from real power. The other main group, the Sunni Arabs, do not have political parties with militias and fear retribution for their years in power.
"People don't like the militias," said Samir Shakir Mahmoud Sumaidy, a Governing Council member and a Sunni Arab. "They think they are going to destroy what we are building here."
The continuing presence of the militias "holds real danger," said Mr. Hiltermann of the International Crisis Group. "If you give real power to these militias, how do you fold them into a big army? They might not want to join."
There are three groups the American military considers to be active militias. First, there is the pesh merga, whose 50,000 soldiers are split between the Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Next is the Badr Organization, a unit of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a powerful Shiite party. Then there is the Mahdi Army, formed by Moktada al-Sadr, a virulently anti-American cleric who is Shiite.
The senior military official estimated the number of the Mahdi Army in the "high hundreds to thousands," and said its antioccupation stand "concerns us greatly." In October, members of the militia ambushed American soldiers in Sadr City, a sprawling Shiite slum in Baghdad. Two soldiers and two Iraqis were killed in firefights.
Days later, other members of the Mahdi Army, named for a mythic Shiite imam who is supposed to reappear to lead an apocalyptic battle, reportedly fought in the city of Karbala against American soldiers and supporters of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the revered Shiite cleric.
They are in Iraq now in opposition to American will, but they may be negative nonetheless. According to the article, the people do not like the militias, obviously a quote from someone who believes that Iraqis are benefiting from the occupation. However, they may also divide the country according to ethnicity, the acrticle says.
What do you think will be the result of America's oposition to these militias?
Do you think that they're important in drving America out of Iraq?
If so, are they really a good social force?
Will the American military power structure in Iraq to be replaced by these powerful militias and the political parties they support?
Is that what we want?
Here's the article
Iraqi Militias Resisting U.S. Pressure to Disband
By EDWARD WONG
Published: February 9, 2004
AGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 8 — Several of the biggest political parties in Iraq say they are determined to keep their well-armed militias despite American opposition to the idea.
They contend that the militias remain necessary in light of the lack of security throughout the country.
Having had scant success so far in persuading the militias to disband, occupation officials are searching for a new policy that will help disarm the groups, whose members total in the tens of thousands, said a senior military official.
But less than five months remain until the transfer of sovereignty to an Iraqi government, leaving the Bush administration little time to deal with what many officials here consider an incendiary problem.
In the rugged north, Kurdish militiamen called the pesh merga patrol the roads. In the south, members of the Badr Organization, a militia run by a prominent Shiite political party, work with the police to secure the cities, said the group's leader.
Iraq's instability — and fog-shrouded political future — leave the parties with no incentive to disband the militias, experts say.
"It's all a matter of confidence in the future," said Joost R. Hiltermann, an Iraq expert at the International Crisis Group, a conflict prevention organization. "You're not going to give up your weapons if you think you're going to fight again in the future."
Militia leaders say the groups can help stabilize the country, something they argue that American troops have been unable to do.
Several politicians say they may push to have the Iraqi Governing Council enshrine the existence of the militias in an interim constitution due Feb. 28, with the justification that the armed groups can serve as emergency forces.
Some even suggest that American officials should transfer oversight of security entirely to Iraqi forces — including the militias.
"The issue is just like cleaning the city," said Hassan al-Amari, the leader of the Badr Organization, estimated to have at least 10,000 members. "You can't keep the city clean without the help of the people themselves."
All along, the Americans have worried that private armies like the militias could inflame a nation already divided along ethnic and religious lines. Starting in the mid-1970's, militias fought each other in the Lebanese civil war.
The major militias here are attached to parties dominated by Kurds or Shiite Arabs, who make up a majority of the population but were long excluded from real power. The other main group, the Sunni Arabs, do not have political parties with militias and fear retribution for their years in power.
"People don't like the militias," said Samir Shakir Mahmoud Sumaidy, a Governing Council member and a Sunni Arab. "They think they are going to destroy what we are building here."
The continuing presence of the militias "holds real danger," said Mr. Hiltermann of the International Crisis Group. "If you give real power to these militias, how do you fold them into a big army? They might not want to join."
There are three groups the American military considers to be active militias. First, there is the pesh merga, whose 50,000 soldiers are split between the Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Next is the Badr Organization, a unit of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a powerful Shiite party. Then there is the Mahdi Army, formed by Moktada al-Sadr, a virulently anti-American cleric who is Shiite.
The senior military official estimated the number of the Mahdi Army in the "high hundreds to thousands," and said its antioccupation stand "concerns us greatly." In October, members of the militia ambushed American soldiers in Sadr City, a sprawling Shiite slum in Baghdad. Two soldiers and two Iraqis were killed in firefights.
Days later, other members of the Mahdi Army, named for a mythic Shiite imam who is supposed to reappear to lead an apocalyptic battle, reportedly fought in the city of Karbala against American soldiers and supporters of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the revered Shiite cleric.