Battles With Conservative Reactionaries

[red-winter]

So I run a punk rock show on my school's radio. The slot after my hour is a conservative talk show. So the other day after my slot they came in and saw one of my doodles (I like to draw Marxist-oriented political cartoons while songs play) and naturally started making jokes. This eventually somehow devolved into them attacking me with their conservative nonsense, which somehow devolved furthermore into them standing by the statement that Constitutional Monarchy is a valid system that works :cursing: This whole time I attempted to remain civil (though I was livid) and quote Marx to explain how they have no idea what any leftist ideology entails. They just kept interrupting me and using logical fallacies to support their dead-end arguments. Have many of you experience this regularly? How do you guys deal with this? Obviously conservatives are difficult to deal with due to their lack of common sense, so what are some simple arguments or explanations that can be used to make them shut the fuck up? Sorry if this is the wrong board to post this, I'm still kinda new. Thanks to all in advance for their replies!

[Cliff Paul]

So the other day after my slot they came in and saw one of my doodles (I like to draw Marxist-oriented political cartoons while songs play) and naturally started making jokes.

If someone is going to make jokes about your political beliefs, especially while you are standing there in front of them, then talking/interacting with them is probably not going to do you much good.

[Comrade Bob]

It's an annoyingly common occurrence, right-wingers like to demonise left wing ideologies without any understanding of what they stand for, nor do they seem to want to learn about them. In my country, "lefties" are merely a strawman attacked by the right as something to pin all their problems on (when it's not immigrants or Muslims). The best thing to do is attempt to educate them, but if they are laughing at you or purposefully misunderstanding you then the best thing to do is try and spread the word to people who are willing to listen

[cyu]

When debating on the air, it's not really about trying to convert your opponents, since nobody wants to admit defeat in public, especially if it's something they care about. Even things they don't care about, like beer pong, often lead to people getting carried away trying to avoid public humiliation.

Instead of focusing your attention on them, focus your attention on your audience instead. In general, you don't have to worry about people who already agree with you - they're already rooting for you like fans of your football team. The most useful thing you can do for them is to introduce new ideas that they can add to their arsenal to defend things they already believe in.

More importantly there are two other groups. Those who support your opponents, and those not really on either side. If you can speak to the neutral people and tilt them toward your own side, then great. Even better (but harder to do), is to use the debate as a chance to get inside the head of your opponents. Find out what makes them tick, find out what they are secretly afraid of. And if you can figure that out, don't go after your debate opponents, but use what you learned to speak to their supporters in the audience - if you can speak directly to their fears and motivations, then you might be able to channel them in a different direction - or at least into a more moderate position, curious to learn more in the future.

[red-winter]

The problem is that I have to see them every week. Generally I avoid arguments (especially political ones), but if I'm provoked, it's really hard to ignore the attacks.

[red-winter]

I wasn't actually debating on air, but rather outside the station room during the buffer period between our shows. Regarardless, your advice is still helpful. Thanks you!

[BIXX]

I thought this thread was going to be a bunch of videos of actual fights against conservatives.

Now I'm a bit disappointed.

[Mr. Piccolo]

The best advice I can give is to maintain a sense of humor and don't let them fluster you. I notice that conservatives enjoy trolling us and making us angry which can make us look bad if we let them succeed. If they are cracking jokes give it right back. These fellows don't sound like they want a genuine debate anyway.

[Sewer Socialist]

My sarcastic communist game is pretty strong. Most of the time people aren't trying to debate, but just talk shit.

[TheBigREDOne]

My sarcastic communist game is pretty strong. Most of the time people aren't trying to debate, but just talk shit.

Maybe some examples are in order, comrade? :o

[red-winter]

Look up the video titled "Young Stalinist Communists in Russia." It's basically a bunch of leftist factions beating the shit out of Nazis. Revleft won't let me post the link so all I can give you is the title. Hopefully this is akin to your taste? :laugh:

[Bala Perdida]

This whole time I attempted to remain civil (though I was livid) and quote Marx to explain how they have no idea what any leftist ideology entails. They just kept interrupting me and using logical fallacies to support their dead-end arguments. Have many of you experience this regularly? How do you guys deal with this? You have to scare them out of bothering you.

Them: Communism is when the state controls everything.
You: No, the communist revolution is when the proletarian uses the state as a weapon to purge society of its capitalist infestation.
Them: But that means taking things away from people, who worked hard to get them.
You: Yes, rounding up all those poor people and minorities and threatening them by gun point to build their wealth doesn't sound like an easy task. And turning the tables isn't easy either. So you better get used to sharing your car and having all those unused rooms in your house occupied, that is unless we burn it down.
Them: But that's a violation of our constitutional rights...
You: The fact that you think I should respect a doctrine telling me what I'm ALLOWED to do, shows how much of a parasite you are. Either conform to the revolution or you're gonna be done away with along with your precious property!
Them: So you're gonna impose gulags and secret police, taking away our freedoms!
You: No, the people you've helped to exploit and oppress are going to rebel against you. There will be no kidnapping, there will be no patrolling. Were gonna hold court up in the streets, that way everyone can participate in the insurrectionary jury. And if by taking away your freedoms you mean taking away your right to exploit, then yes that will be done away with.

Weather you mean it is up to you. I dunno, that's what I do. Liberalism is a violent ideology, that doesn't recognize its own aggression. I don't care for being civil to anyone that's that overt and flaunting of their terrible politics. If your personality is good, then other people won't care.

[red-winter]

Scare tactics are always fun :grin: Especially if you don't like the people annoying you. In most cases I'll try and educate the other person (they can't help that they were brainwashed by Capitalist propaganda being force-fed to them since day 1) but in this case I might as well get 'em to be intimidated solely for the purpose of making them fuck off.

[Sewer Socialist]

Maybe some examples are in order, comrade? :o

Hmm, I can't quite remember a specific example I've used, but it's really just a bunch of low blows, not showing respect to reactionary views, etc. When people are curious, I'll explain things with a kind tone, but when I'm talking to an idealogue not willing to listen, or when they're trying to crack jokes, taking them seriously isn't the way to go. Like when they talk about the free market, (eye roll) "yes, the free market, freedom for the rich, servitude for those who have nothing but their hands to rent".

If you want to debate someone, they have to be willing to debate in kind; arguments sort of go to the lowest common denominator.

[email protected] Fuerte showed another side, a less sarcastic one than I go for, but nonetheless dispensing with kindness and civility.

[cyu]

I thought this thread was going to be a bunch of videos of actual fights against conservatives.

Now I'm a bit disappointed.
Deploying the riot police: the first sign of a failed state https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAuDLJ8q7C4

[Stirnerian]

The way to handle reactionaries in verbal debate is with what I like to call rhetorical jujitsu.

For instance: you say that these conservatives actually defended the concept of monarchy? And they're American? If it were an on-line conflict, there are dozens of quotations from the American Founding Fathers you could post regarding the subject of monarchy that would probably get them arrested in the United Kingdom for making terroristic threats.

You don't have the luxury of looking up quotations in real-life, so just sticking to the broad theme suffices: you prefer monarchy to good old-fashioned American republicanism? And you say you idolize Thomas Jefferson?

This is especially useful when debating in front of an audience. Monarchism is out-of-context to American conservatism, because the nation's political tradition was forged in a bourgeois revolution against monarchy. In effect, these conservatives are defaming the men who fought and died in the American Revolution.

Always, in all cases, the aim is to turn the values of the opposition against themselves - hence 'jujitsu'.

[Vogel]

Now, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if you want to beat conservatives on marxism on the Radio, it'd be helpful to get a Marxist radio host. Perhaps a radio host who has been a professional Marxist Economist for his entire adult life of 72 years old. Is a Professor on economics at the New School University.

Richard Wolff would probably love being on a debate, and if that means defending Marxism, spreading the message, and swaying people, then do it!
He is a professional, and would no doubt be a valuable person to have on. http://rdwolff.com/contact

[Futility Personified]

Good lord Vogel..... I hope i'm not the only one who feels like banging their head against the wall reading that.

To the OP:

A good thing to do is just make a list of all the typical fallacies they keep using (other people's money, human nature, theory not practice) and make notes for yourself on why those are incorrect. Remember to assert that socialism is a broad church, and there are so many different doctrines that attempting any general refutation along such vague lines is not only fruitless, it's also dishonest.

That said, in this day and age someone with the chops to actually support a monarchy is a bonafide tosser anyway.

[Tim Cornelis]

Conservative reactionary is an oxymoron.

Richard Wolff is not that good at all. I don't understand how so many Marxists can be so ignorant about the basics of Marx's critique of political economy. Commodity exchange is entirely inconsistent with a system of common ownership and direct, free association of producers, that is, communism. If you propose a system of commodity exchange you propose a system that must be based on private labour and therefore private producers and therefore, in combination with the present level of development of the material forces of production, capitalism.

[Comrade #138672]

Start drawing cartoons about them instead. Take their favorite arguments and turn them into satire. That will probably piss them off.

[BIXX]

Now, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but if you want to beat conservatives on marxism on the Radio, it'd be helpful to get a Marxist radio host. Perhaps a radio host who has been a professional Marxist Economist for his entire adult life of 72 years old. Is a Professor on economics at the New School University.

Richard Wolff would probably love being on a debate, and if that means defending Marxism, spreading the message, and swaying people, then do it!
He is a professional, and would no doubt be a valuable person to have on. http://rdwolff.com/contact

Listen. I think you're addicted to Wolff. And as your fellow forum member I think its time to send you to rehab or have an intervention or something cause it ain't good.

[Vogel]

:crying: thank you

[Црвена]

Maybe, if your school allows it, you could give a talk on communism - on air or just during lunch break sometime - and argue against the popular myths about it, and then take questions after? There always tends to be a few insanely anti-communist reactionary nutters who won't listen to any arguments, but they're in the minority. In my experience most people are quite interested in different opinions.

[Tim Cornelis]

I'm sure most high schoolers don't care about politics.

[Црвена]

I'm sure most high schoolers don't care about politics.

You'd be surprised - my peers don't subscribe to political ideologies or align with any organisations yet, but most of them do genuinely seem to be interested in discussing how society should be organised, as long as I don't explicitly tell them that we're talking about politics, in which case they'll feel bored and feel like they don't know enough to discuss it before I even say anything. Communism seems to interest them too, probably because it sounds edgy and outrageous to those who don't know much about it.

[roses]

The right will use some of its most effective tools, mockery and the Cold War mentality that causes many Americans to knee jerk reflexively at the words "communism" and "socialism."