Why was the USSR and Cuba very conservative on social issues

[revnoon]

I'm puzzled in the past and to this day both countries being very conservative on social issues.

exemple

Homosexual acts and gay marriage is a punishment offense. If you a gay, lesbian or a transsexual you have to go underground it is punishment offense in Russia or Cuba.

If the USSR was more liberal on social issues it would not be in mess it is in today.

And Russia today just trying to do the opposite of any country in world.

Russia today does not identity itself left or right today.:ohmy:

Even the US is more liberal on social issues than Russia or Cuba today.

[The Epitome of Justice]

Russia stopped being a socialist country officially in 1991.

As for the U.S.S.R probably bourgeoisie or conservative infiltrators, Mao tried to get rid of conservatives within his Socialist state by implementing a decade of mob rule or a mob rule tactic known as Cultural Revolution in which the majority could forcefully remove anybody who didn't serve their interests or they didn't favour. This included conservatives who were crushed under the weight of mob rule, conservative values including gender role were totally destroyed by the cultural revolution too. However they didn't manage to find them all and by the time of Mao's death it was already too late and the conservatives within seized power.

I think in the future allowing a form of mob rule/cultural revolution along with arming the masses of people could prevent the corrupt from taking power and keep the conservatives out. Any who did would be very quickly thrown out of office. Cultural revolution will very quickly destroy all tradition and conservative values. Intellectuals and experts also made accountable to the masses.

[Puzzled Left]

Mao tried to get rid of conservatives within his Socialist state by implementing a decade of mob rule or a mob rule tactic known as Cultural Revolution in which the majority could forcefully remove anybody who didn't serve their interests or they didn't favour. This included conservatives who were crushed under the weight of mob rule, conservative values including gender role were totally destroyed by the cultural revolution too. However they didn't manage to find them all and by the time of Mao's death it was already too late and the conservatives within seized power.

No, in fact, Mao was quite a conservative himself. Being homosexual itself is a crime and may face severe punishments. Dating in schools, and even in college, can face severe reprimand from school officials. In fact, China only started to become slightly more socially liberal after the Culture Revolution disaster.

I think authoritarian states just must impose their own standards on individuals, so their's always a limit of how socially liberal they can be.

[mushroompizza]

My belief on the Cold War communist countries (Cuba, USSR, etc) is that they did a full circle they went so far left they became left. Similar to the French Revolution democrats became so radical they made a monarchy. Basically these leaders loose their reason in the struggle and become radical reactionaries, not true marxists.

[tuwix]

I'm puzzled in the past and to this day both countries being very conservative on social issues.

exemple

Homosexual acts and gay marriage is a punishment offense. If you a gay, lesbian or a transsexual you have to go underground it is punishment offense in Russia or Cuba.

If the USSR was more liberal on social issues it would not be in mess it is in today.

And Russia today just trying to do the opposite of any country in world.

Russia today does not identity itself left or right today.:ohmy:

Even the US is more liberal on social issues than Russia or Cuba today.

The Soviet Union and Cuba were build on very conservative societies. Besides there are oligarchies with very weak influence of public opinion on state. The USA, for example, try to pretend to be a state where is democracy and pretends that changes are possible and something can be influenced. But Russia and Cuba don't pretend that.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

For the record, it should be pointed out that Lenin and the Bolsheviks, although somewhat conservative in their social views, on their seizure of power in the October Revolution immediately abolished various bourgeois social laws. In effect, Russia became the first modern state to legalize homosexuality, no-fault divorce, and reproductive rights for women (including abortion) all in one fell swoop. They even abolished the death penalty (for a short time, anyway).

Homosexuality and abortion didn't become crimes again in the USSR until...you guessed it...Stalin poked his face caterpillar into it and re-criminalized them both during his era.

It also needs to be stated that there was a long-held belief in the socialist/communist movements that homosexuality and other 'perversion' were results of capitalist corruption and were linked to fascism. This is obviously untrue, but those were the times. This influence rubbed off on all of the other Marxist-Leninist movements and states of the time.

[Gracchus R.]

I'm puzzled in the past and to this day both countries being very conservative on social issues.

exemple

Homosexual acts and gay marriage is a punishment offense. If you a gay, lesbian or a transsexual you have to go underground it is punishment offense in Russia or Cuba.

If the USSR was more liberal on social issues it would not be in mess it is in today.

And Russia today just trying to do the opposite of any country in world.

Russia today does not identity itself left or right today.:ohmy:

Even the US is more liberal on social issues than Russia or Cuba today.

At first, after the bolchevik revolution, homosexuality was descriminalised. But under Stalin, it was illegalised. It is often seen as an attempt to inflate birthrate or an attempt to please a population that had more conservative opinion (that's weird, supposing that opinion of the soviet people on such a matter could have been change through the education system).

Why such law stay under USSR ? I suppose it could be based on two main reasons: That homosexuality was seen as desease (not in the moral sens) by those who gouvern (in the way that they believe it as a social or biological origin, and that they could undermine homosexuality with such policies) or that it could trouble the public order. I also read somewhere that homosexuality was often seen as fascist or a right-wing behavior, maybe this have as a starting point with the rumored homosexuality behavior in the prussian army or that in some bourgeois society it was less underground.

That's all a bunch of maybe, trying to find why USSR and Cuba was culturaly conservative is hard. On certain matters, they was conservative, probably because of those who was at the head of governement and the social origin of those people, or/and they believed it could put in peril the public order.


My belief on the Cold War communist countries (Cuba, USSR, etc) is that they did a full circle they went so far left they became left. Similar to the French Revolution democrats became so radical they made a monarchy. Basically these leaders loose their reason in the struggle and become radical reactionaries, not true marxists.

I'm very desapointed about the general lack of knowledge about the French Revolution, a lack that everyone seem to have. It is often a question of political struggle that finally put those reactionaries in power, not that progressives do themself a full circle. And those who power seem to make loose their reason are those who are more preoccupied by power than by convictions.

[Illegalitarian]

Well Russia and China have historically been very conservative societies, which means that even the communists they produced were quite conservative on many issues.

Like Rafiq said in the thread on how the US became so conservative, I would say conservatism in these nations is so prominent due to the mass push towards communist revolution that took place there. If further solidified the conservative reaction throughout society, and permeated even throughout the phony socialist governments themselves.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

This is really two different questions.

Russia has a peculiar history stretching back to at least Alexander III, of patriotism and generally the conservative outlook that comes from much of Russia seeing very little change for a very long time. It is a national culture that survives today, as we see rampant nationalism and homophobia in Russia, and an admiration for the strong leader Putin, just as was seen for Stalin, and Alexander III before him; there was even genuine admiration for Nicholas II up until 1905.

Cuba is different. I think it suffered more from the personal influence of the circle around Fidel Castro, who was known in the 1960s not to be sympathetic to gay rights, for example.

Two very different countries, with different histories and types of development, and probably two different reasons for social conservatism.

I would also hesitate to be anachronistic with Cuba, since they and Fidel Castro have since denounced themselves as mistaken on social issues like gay rights. I think we do need to recognise progress when it comes, and also recognise that around the world there are peculiar reasons (for example in Russia) why populations hold different cultural beliefs that are anathema to our own.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Up into the final quarter of the 20th century, even western European and US Marxists quite often held conservative views about sexuality. A few still hold them (I was just informed by one the other day that there is no such thing as working class LGBT people and as such LGBT people don't belong in a revolutionary movement).

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Up into the final quarter of the 20th century, even western European and US Marxists quite often held conservative views about sexuality. A few still hold them (I was just informed by one the other day that there is no such thing as working class LGBT people and as such LGBT people don't belong in a revolutionary movement).

Seriously? What an asshole.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Seriously? What an asshole.
Yeah. An asshole and divorced from reality.

[dinosaur]

Maybe Cuba is so socially conservative because of their large population of religious people, especially Roman Catholics.

[Mr. Piccolo]

Up into the final quarter of the 20th century, even western European and US Marxists quite often held conservative views about sexuality. A few still hold them (I was just informed by one the other day that there is no such thing as working class LGBT people and as such LGBT people don't belong in a revolutionary movement).

Yes, this is true. Post-war Italian Communists, for example, actually echoed Catholic sentiments when criticizing films for being too "sexy."

I think things started to change in the 1970s when the Western Left became more socially liberal. But you can still find socially conservative Leftists in the West, and especially in the Third World.

[G4b3n]

Never underestimate how reactionary a state claiming "Marxism" can be.