Weapons knowledge

[bunk]

im sorry that i gave the wrong impression and now you think i'm some kind of a spy

[Soviet power supreme]

I dont need weapons, I use my fists to beat the crap out the cappies. :angry:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

OK I have a question:

Which is more powerful, 5.56mm or .22LR?

[Nobody]

I went to a freckin' Libyain camp!

Just kidding CIA dude, I love you.

[Individual]

I went to grammar school. So basically if you have a question.

Just kidding. However what kind of weapon training did you attend? And there are an extreme amount of weapons out there. Or do you know a lot about all of them?

[ComradeRed]

I went to public skool, so im proeffecient in most hand guns :P

[hazard]

here is a classic thread concerning weapons knowledge

besides all of the posturing and insults, there is some good information being used

it revolves around the first phase(the invasion phase) of the second IRAQ war

here's the link

don't mind the title, I don't actually "love" the ak47 or anything like that

heh

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...9148&hl=beloved (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=9148&hl=beloved)

[Sabocat]

OK I have a question:

Which is more powerful, 5.56mm or .22LR?


I'm assuming your referring to the .223 (5.56x45) M-16, M4A-1 round. Definitely more powerful.

The 5.56x45 propels a 55 grain bullet at an inital muzzle velocity of 3,180 fps (964

mps) through the standard 20 inch barrel of the M16.

A .22 LR cartridge is typically around 40 grains and has an initial muzzle velocity of around 1280 fps.

[bunk]

im sorry that i gave the wrong impression and now you think i'm some kind of a spy

[Individual]

Did you click the link? Lets say we all have the knowledge, there just isn't much to discuss on the subject.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm assuming your referring to the .223 (5.56x45) M-16, M4A-1 round. Definitely more powerful.

The 5.56x45 propels a 55 grain bullet at an inital muzzle velocity of 3,180 fps (964

mps) through the standard 20 inch barrel of the M16.

A .22 LR cartridge is typically around 40 grains and has an initial muzzle velocity of around 1280 fps.

I think you will find a .22 is just as powerful as the 5.56x45 at close ranges- the smaller surface area compared to the power of the cartridge- a 'needle and hammer' effect with the 5.56 being the hammer and the .22 being the needle.

Don't forget also that the 5.56 'tumbles' after a certain distance, decreasing it's penetrating power and causing more injury than death.

Althought the 5.56 has far superior range than the .22

[Sabocat]

Yes, but the defining quality for "power" of a round is the energy that it delivers. The velocity of the 5.56 creates much more shock than the .22 LR.

The drawback to the 5.56X45 is that it is full metal jacketed, and thus will tend to over penetrate at close range, whereas a .22LR can be a lead round or semi jacketed which will expand better.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 01:01 PM

OK I have a question:

Which is more powerful, 5.56mm or .22LR?


I'm assuming your referring to the .223 (5.56x45) M-16, M4A-1 round. Definitely more powerful.

The 5.56x45 propels a 55 grain bullet at an inital muzzle velocity of 3,180 fps (964

mps) through the standard 20 inch barrel of the M16.

A .22 LR cartridge is typically around 40 grains and has an initial muzzle velocity of around 1280 fps.
I believe it is a bit generalised to assume it is only in an M-16. 5.56 is a Nato round, and if you take, for example the SA80 then (although I am not too sure about A2) it has a velosity of 902 mps...a bit less than an M16, but slightly more stopping power.

Powerful weapons are great, but everything has to be used in relation to range, as a weapon to powerful will simply exit to quickly, a round that takes more to cause an exit wound is often messier.

The only knowledge I have is from Training with the British Army, mainly through cadet forces...I have undertaken two small arms coaching courses, and other things are from involvment with a few mates living wild for a bit. Although this summer will have to be withoput weapons...one of my friends having gotten locked up for armed robbery.

Has any here been shot at before? I wouldn&#39;t relly say I have, although the psycho now in prison has shot at me with a .22 and actually got be with a glancing hit from a 1.77 air rifle...it fucking hurts <_<. Weapons are fun, but I still think that too many irresponsible people get their hands on them.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Has any here been shot at before? I wouldn&#39;t relly say I have, although the psycho now in prison has shot at me with a .22 and actually got be with a glancing hit from a 1.77 air rifle...it fucking hurts . Weapons are fun, but I still think that too many irresponsible people get their hands on them

If it weren&#39;t for the fact that other ppl would get hurt, I would say let idiots have weapons; and let nature take it&#39;s course. Darwin would have been proud.

All I&#39;ve fired is a bb pistol (hmm), a .22 rifle and an L98A1 Cadet Rifle.

The closest thing I&#39;ve came to being shot at is being ambushed by my friends with bb guns. twice.

but that&#39;s another story...

[Sabocat]

I believe it is a bit generalised to assume it is only in an M-16. 5.56 is a Nato round

Sorry. I meant it for demonstrative purposes, although I believe that the M-16 was the first military rifle chambered for that caliber.

Nato only fairly recently has adopted it as their cartridge. It was previously the 7.62. It is now split between the 7.62 and the 5.56.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Does anyone know precisely what calibre the AK-47 uses? I know it&#39;s 7.something...

[Sabocat]

The Ak-47 is chambered for 7.62x39

The Ak-74 developed later, is chambered for 5.45x39

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Thanks a lot disgustapated&#33;

Would you consider yourself a gun nut? :)

[Sabocat]

No, not a gun nut. I am an enthusiast though. ;)

Seriously, I grew up hunting, have always owned at least one shotgun, one rifle and one pistol and one compound bow at any given time. Actually, these days I seem to prefer shooting/hunting with the bow. Much quieter, and not as heavy to lug around the woods. I also have a relative who is a historic/antique gun collector, so I get to shoot some pretty cool guns from time to time.

I do love target shooting my Browning .30.06 though. It is insanely accurate.

[Spartacus2002]

were can i get me a cheap hand gun???

[Individual]

Depending how cheap, you can try and get it free.

Just try and rob a gun store. Just ask for the gun loaded and for a kevlar vest so you can hopefully experience your new weapon for longer than 10 seconds.

RUN&#33;

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 03:37 PM

Nato only fairly recently has adopted it as their cartridge. It was previously the 7.62. It is now split between the 7.62 and the 5.56.
Yer they would have went for a smaller round still, needed for better stopping power, but I think it was America that were pushing for larger round types. Still a 7.62 out of a GPMG is so much fun :)

NoXion soon the L98 will be upgraded. You should get A1 SA80 mods on them. The cocking handle is being replaced, and they will fire on repetition only, but at least the gas parts mean that you won&#39;t have to cock the thing every shot. Still not allowing the widespread use of the SUSAT in cadet forces. If you have fire that then you should hae a go on the LSW soon, perhaps the GPMG as well. See if you can get yourself on exchanges with foreign forces. The best chance of trying out the M16 etc.

The largest gun I have fired is the 106mm light gun. Acting as a number 3 you fire it, although you normally have 6 man teams opperating it, so I have only got off a few rounds before...the rest of the time stuck lifting the wheel or something.

[bunk]

im in a cadet force, that cocking lever gets stuck sometimes and the guns are pretty prone to jamming

[Hegemonicretribution]

They normally are in cvadet forces, incorectly cared for most of the time.You are not supposed to know how to clean them properly they see it as more important that the firing pin is not lost or bent.....Ah well I was in the process of building one a few years back,. got a couple of bits of the bolt and a few magazines a few years back but that idea died:)

[MiniOswald]

crossfire do you mean the ccf and is that gun your refering to the L98, cos if you are then we may have something in common.... damn that L98, but it is accurate ;)

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 10:13 AM
crossfire do you mean the ccf and is that gun your refering to the L98, cos if you are then we may have something in common.... damn that L98, but it is accurate ;)
I am guessing that is what he is refering to. Accurate..sort of, but if you have used the cadet rifles wait until you use the target rifle they use at Bisley. Have you tried SAM...or are you going this year?

[bunk]

yeh i am reffering to that gun. On a recruit camp we went on a 30m range firing live rounds, the gun is accurate but has many other faults. Lucky im not left handed.
In a guerilla campaign i would want one of the kalashnikov family for reliability, or even better a AN94.
Edit: MiniOswald have you chosen your section; im in the army.

[MiniOswald]

yup Ive chosen my section, im in the R.A.F., with possibly the most unflattering uniforms in all the armed forces :P , I fired live rounds from the L98 on a camp at halton (also on a 30m range) and it is accurate, on my first time I got within 3 inches of the squares but as you say it is prone to jammings.
The newest ak&#39;s however, namely the 107&#39;s and 108&#39;s tend not to jam and are very reliable

[bunk]

None of the AK family are really prone to jamming.
I thought that you don&#39;t usually fight a guerrilla war with planes so i went army

[MiniOswald]

the knowledge I learn in them tutors could be very handy on day

[Guest]

did you get mixed up between SA80 and Ak cause in one of your posts you said that earlier AK&#39;s are unreliable,Which they are not......

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It was the SA80&#39;s that had a shit first production run...

[bunk]

yeh i know...........

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 02:34 PM
It was the SA80&#39;s that had a shit first production run...
They are quite reliable now with the A2 mods...I would say more so than the M16

[MiniOswald]

They&#39;re very bloody accurate now but can still get jammed a bit more than m16&#39;s

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 04:25 PM
They&#39;re very bloody accurate now but can still get jammed a bit more than m16&#39;s
I suppose it depends on the conditions in which they were used. Half the reason for upgrading was the fact that they couldn&#39;t handle the conditions of Afganistan. The SUSAT hasn&#39;t been altered much, I can&#39;t remember it has been a while, but from what I can remember the main external difference is the cocking handle...although there are numerous internal improvements decreasing the stoppage rate. I am almost certain it has a lower rate than the M16 in active service.

Still I think the Bullpup design alone gives it quite an advantage, more versatile..and better from firing from cover.

[MiniOswald]

I remember the Sa80&#39;s had a lot of trouble with their dust covers i.e. they didn&#39;t stop dust, so as you say they messed up in afganistan but they&#39;re tip top now, but one more thing why does the l98 (baby brother of the Sa80) have to make so much god damn noise&#33;

[Hegemonicretribution]

I hear you on that, well I think (even if it does sound daft) that it may have something to do with the flash eliminator. The muzzle on the L98 certainly won&#39;t help. The lack of gas parts is also a *****, nothing is pushed back to recock the weapon...so I don&#39;t know.

I remember back in the day as a Bombadier (corpral) a group of us plotted to gain access to the female basha and fire a blank to wake them up...we thought of unloading an LSW in there, but decided we would do the GP because it is louder. More than worth the safety risk gained by not having a BFA.

That exercise was fantasitic, we carried the female weapons because they were louder whilst carring ours because they were heavier. 8 man squad of senior armed with 6 LSWs and 2 GPs (nick named mortars). Us vs an entire cadet force that areunarmed..plus we were non tac :D

[MiniOswald]

very nice, the wonderful lsw&#39;s miked with the l98 cannons&#33; :D

[Mr. Morrison]

The main weapons you need for guerilla warfare are guns and explosives, you have mostly covered guns, although you have done it rather well - I broadly agree with what has been stated on various automatic weapons. My personal preference is for the Kalashnikov series, they are rugged and you just know they won&#39;t jam. Ever.

As for explosives, all the relevant information is available online for those willing to spend a few weeks studying, don&#39;t go for the dangerous and ineffective anarchist cookbook type bullshit (and there is a lot of it besides the original "cookbook" itself, you can recognize it by spelling errors, lack of precautions, unscientific language and the fact that it takes a billion shortcuts and doesn&#39;t explain the reactions taking place - you&#39;re gonna need some basic chemistry before you start), but in fact the real information is actually out there as well.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I have limited experienced with PE4....a pound of that stuff can take down a building when placed right, although I only used it splitting rocks.

The anarchists cookbook is a bit of fun for when you are younger...although it can be expensive and dangerous. I did still feel a slight bit of pride when a 13 year old I used to babysit for came home with magnessium ribbon for igniting thermite. :)