Anti-Communism driven by same tendencies as Islamophobia?

[The Epitome of Justice]

What do you think? I've compared communistphobia/modern day red scare to Islamophobia and found many similarities.

Well Islamophobia is driven by poorly hidden racist tendencies to give an excuse to deport Middle Eastern or brown people. Notice how many supporters of it are neo-nazis, rednecks or ultranationalists? Islam is peaceful and benevolent in its ideological manifesto but a few opportunists are made to make the whole thing look had. It is a religion but also an ideology, an ideology with a value or belief system.

What if the same could maybe be said for anti-communism, or communistphobia as the appropriate term for it? Many communistphobes from what I've seen online are neo-nazis, fascists or have racist tendencies towards certain Eastern European and Asian cultures. You will find alot of communistphobes of today are also Islamophobes. Not only do they try to demonise an ideology through using the actions of a few or any opportunists to try to make it look bad but many also can be found to have racist tendencies towards certain Eastern Europeans, Chinese and even can be found to be Anti-Semitic.

Islamophobia and Red Scare Remnants(Communistphobia) are driven by the same backwards way of thinking of saying "Ism killed millions." and racist tendencies. They also try to use Islam and Communism as a way of trying to drive back immigration of a certain ethnic group that have had it in their country.

The Anti-Communism, Communistphobia and red scare of today should be denounced and dealt with the same way as Islamophobia. From my research they are both driven by identical racist tendencies and backwards thinking. Just poorly hidden racism too.

[RedKobra]

I would disagree that Islam, as a "manifesto" was peaceful or benevolent. As a manifesto it is backward and reactionary, as the vast majority of religions are. Remember there is a huge, chasmic difference between the religion as "understood" and practiced by its adherents and the actual tennets of the scripture. Of course the vast majority of Muslims are kind and generous people, just as are Christians and Jews and every one else. For the most part though to be so they have to ignore whole swathes of scripture. The bible and Koran are quite explicit about unbelievers...something about taking them to the edge of town...something about stones...you get the picture.

[The Epitome of Justice]

My main point is some racists use antagonization of ideology as an excuse to promote xenophobia.

For example Islamophobia being used as an excuse to promote Xenophobia against brown or Middle Eastern people.

Just as how Communistphobia may also be used by some racists to promote xenophobia towards certain asian or Eastern European cultures it was associated with or is.

As a result we could have anti-communists denounced and the demonisation of communism reversed or be classified as a form of hate speech. Since many communistphobes might be driven by racist tendencies.

[BIXX]

Lol I think any of the more militant communist texts are pretty explicit about nonbelievers as well.

[RedKobra]

Be specific.

p.s - I don't think Communists have ever claimed to be pacifists. The existance of classes unfortunately entails struggle. Outlawing freedom of conscience, disagreement and dissent is something altogether different.

[BIXX]

Communists as a while have no claimed to be pacifists, just like islamists. And furthermore, in practice have killed a fuck of a lot of people, repressed different strains of though within the movement, etc... And I believe at various times Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky all called for various authoritarian shit, not the least of which includes killing of dissidents.

[RedKobra]

There's a world of difference between saying that those who oppose and sabotage the end of exploitation will face punishment and then the religious itteration which demands non-negotioable subservience to a theocratic totalitarianism on the pain of death.

They are two completely different things.

All societies have laws. Things you are permitted to do and things you are not permitted to do. For every transgression there are consequences and appropriate resolutions and restitutions. The difference is for what end and under what moral code.

It is not law and punishment in of itself that is wrong. Its what type of society those laws and punishments are in service of.

[BIXX]

However looking back there has never been a communist movement whose brutality has resulted in an ends that justify the means. Furthermore, the USSR was terrible for queers in general, along with being very patriarchal. Marx himself was homophobic, calling one of the early advocates of sexual freedom a "cock-queer", and generally using homophobic terms against queers. Engels claimed sodomy was an abominable act. The list goes on. Marx and Engels had a framework that was extremely racist regarding their views of civilization, and furthermore were just generally racist. Was the society they aimed for really much better? Was it really emancipatory or was it simply emancipatory for the straight white dude?

[Slavic]

However looking back there has never been a communist movement whose brutality has resulted in an ends that justify the means. Furthermore, the USSR was terrible for queers in general, along with being very patriarchal. Marx himself was homophobic, calling one of the early advocates of sexual freedom a "cock-queer", and generally using homophobic terms against queers. Engels claimed sodomy was an abominable act. The list goes on. Marx and Engels had a framework that was extremely racist regarding their views of civilization, and furthermore were just generally racist. Was the society they aimed for really much better? Was it really emancipatory or was it simply emancipatory for the straight white dude?

Marx is not communism, Engels is not communism, the USSR is not communism; why are you framing what a communist society is by individuals and a capitalist state like the USSR?

It is pretty explicit that a communist society seeks to eliminate repression of the exploited such as homosexuals. A movement that carries the red banner while simultaneously exalting homophobic rhetoric and practice is obviously not communist regardless of appearances.

As to the OP

Racists will always have reasons from which to draw from to hate members of different races, be it appearance, religion, culture, or ideology. I don't think though, that you can attribute the current anti-communist trends in the world entirely to racists. That is to ignore anti-communist stances that are taken up by all states worldwide, and practiced by their law enforcement and education systems. Anti-communism is daily business for these states because communism threatens their very nature.

If one could possibly imagine a world free of racist thought; there would still exist anti-communist attitudes is capitalism still exists. Communism is the bane of capitalism, and while capitalism exists it will never concede.

[Mr. Piccolo]

On an ideological level, militant Islam is now seen as the major enemy of the capitalist West, so in that sense it has replaced communism as a sort of ideological enemy.

In practice, though, militant Islam is reactionary and the United States and its allies have supported and still continue to support religious reactionaries in the Islamic world, especially if the alternative is a socialist or nationalist government or movement that may interfere with the ability of multinational corporations to make profits in those regions.

Western support for reactionary Islamist rebels in countries like Libya and Syria are good examples of this tendency.

EDIT: So, I would say that scaremongering about Islam probably has the same ideological utility to capitalists that anti-communism does (displacing people's fears and hatred away from the oppressive capitalist economic system onto a foreign enemy) and the demographic of Islamophobes is probably similar to that of hardcore anti-communists, but the reality of the relationship between capitalism and militant Islam is different from the relation between capitalism and communism.

[Bala Perdida]

Marx is not communism, Engels is not communism, the USSR is not communism; why are you framing what a communist society is by individuals and a capitalist state like the USSR?

It is pretty explicit that a communist society seeks to eliminate repression of the exploited such as homosexuals. A movement that carries the red banner while simultaneously exalting homophobic rhetoric and practice is obviously not communist regardless of appearances.

They're not saying that all communist society is necessarily terrible in that way. Just those resulting from the former mainstream movement, which are pretty terrible. The recent tendencies towards general liberation are basically that, recent. Internationally, it still doesn't hold solid ground in the movement. Overall, the point is to address the point made in the OP that communist and Islamist texts are benevolent in root and have been mis-shaped by capitalism. That is definitely true, but that doesn't address the bigotry in those works that are usually not brought up since those same tendencies are upheld by capitalism. I understand that PC is no fan of communism, but they are not attacking communist society right now, just the communist movement.

As for the OP, yeah Islam is basically the new communism. It's not peaceful, and being a religion, it's more susceptible to make itself seem peaceful but for the same reason it is naturally not. However, in western society Islam does have more of a racial tie, which makes it more of a tool for racism against middle eastern people. Therefore, any aggressive criticism of Islam has to be examined carefully, since a lot of these can easily degenerate to racism. Communism, on the other hand, is international. So any minority group disliked by liberal powers was labeled communism. As for eastern Europeans, I haven't looked into that, but them being white made it harder for explicit racism to be practiced against them. Also many of them that showed disdain for their birthplaces where championed in the US as American dreamers and what not. Where as people from the middle east bring the religion and culture with them, so it's easier to label them threats. So Islam has largely taken the place of communism as a more consistent buzz word, but it has more of a racist connection. Communism is still used when the middle east is not necessarily the subject.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

As for eastern Europeans, I haven't looked into that, but them being white made it harder for explicit racism to be practiced against them. Also many of them that showed disdain for their birthplaces where championed in the US as American dreamers and what not. Where as people from the middle east bring the religion and culture with them, so it's easier to label them threats.

In my experience, that depends on the class (and the position within the class) of the immigrants. Growing up in Croatia in the nineties, the idea of "unassimilated" people from the Middle East didn't really cross my mind. The only people from the Middle East I knew were professionals, for example the Palestinian who used to pick through my teeth. Whereas a lot of the workers Yugoslavia "exported" to Germany etc. were notorious for segregating themselves into enclaves, having extreme nationalist politics etc.

Also, please, for the love of the nonexistent God, let's not invent some kind of "communistphobia". Comparing political disagreement with oppression of women, gay and trans* people etc. is simply dishonest. "Islamophobia" is not about Islam, which is as problematic as all religions are, but about the coded racism.

[Viktor89]

I really dislike all religions, but I would say islam is more peaceful in some ways than christianity/judaism. But nothing for us anyway, they still, all of the religions, oppress women and look away from the problems of today and instead long for something that doesn't exist.

But yes, at least in Sweden, the right wing fuckers usually throw around words like "you commies are muslim-lovers" (sorry but this is so ignorant that I can just laugh at it) just because we ANARCHISTS don't want borders. LOL! They say that we in the left want Sweden to be "islamized" whatever that would mean. Same ignorant idiots who should really read some books or go to school before they open their mouths.

[The Epitome of Justice]

Communists as a while have no claimed to be pacifists, just like islamists. And furthermore, in practice have killed a fuck of a lot of people, repressed different strains of though within the movement, etc... And I believe at various times Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky all called for various authoritarian shit, not the least of which includes killing of dissidents.

And capitalism/profit notion have killed over a billion.

[Yugoslav Partisan]

The same people who are islamophobic are anti-communist. But, as communists, we must defend secularism or state atheism. Whether it be fighting Christians or Muslims.

[Bala Perdida]

And capitalism/profit notion have killed over a billion.
Nobody's denying that. Their position isn't reactionary anti-communism, it's something much more diverse.

[Bala Perdida]

Also, please, for the love of the nonexistent God, let's not invent some kind of "communistphobia". Comparing political disagreement with oppression of women, gay and trans* people etc. is simply dishonest. "Islamophobia" is not about Islam, which is as problematic as all religions are, but about the coded racism.
Yeah that's basically what I said about Islamophobia. While anti-communism is usually just a minor annoyance for radicals in liberal 'democracies'. Unless it's ethnic groups being considered such, but that's usually only confined to right wing blogs from my experience.

[The Epitome of Justice]

Yeah that's basically what I said about Islamophobia. While anti-communism is usually just a minor annoyance for radicals in liberal 'democracies'. Unless it's ethnic groups being considered such, but that's usually only confined to right wing blogs from my experience.

Problem is they spread propaganda to make people not want to get involved in the movement.

[Bala Perdida]

Problem is they spread propaganda to make people not want to get involved in the movement.
What exactly is getting involved?

Anyways loosing a support base isn't exactly like being 'justly' discriminated against because you fit the ethnic terrorist profile

[Luís Henrique]

Anti-Communism driven by same tendencies as Islamophobia?

No.

Anti-communism is driven by the desire not to share wealth and prosperity; islamophobia is driven by willful ignorance about Islam, or (more commonly, I would say) by racism, "Islam" being a convenient pretext to disguise irrational hate of people of different skin colour as a rational disagreement over matters of faith.

Luís Henrique