RUSSIAN-CHECHEN CONFLICT

[Guerilla22]

Two days ago a bomb ripped through a subway train in Moscow, killing 39 and injuring some 350. No one has claimed responsibility yet, however I'd say it's pretty fair to say that Chechen rebels carried out the attack. Russian Pres. Vladmir Putin stated "Russia doesn't deal with terrrorist, Russia destroys terrorist," in response (in typical Putin hardass fashion)

I can some what empathize with the Chechens, they are fighting for their freedom and the Russian government has killed a fairly large number of Chechen civillians, since the conflict sparked in the mid-90's. However, it seems as though the Chechen cause has gone the way of fundamentalism. In addition, the Chechen rebels have carried out attacks agianst Russian civillians. So I guess I would like to know where others stand on the issue of the Russian-Chechen conflict.

[Hawker]

I'm standing with the Chechens,they're trying to free their country and doing whatever it takes to do it.

[Soviet power supreme]

Well I wouldnt blow myself and 40 other people for my country.Nationalism is not worth dying for.

[Heesh]

I'm on the chechnyans side but these methods are unacceptable.

[Fidel Castro]

The Chechen people must be allowed the right to self determination and soverignty over their own lands. Although I frown upon terrorist tactics and the killing of civilians, I believe the Chechens are fighting for a just cause.

[Pete]

To put it simply: At times you do not have to take sides.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Im with the Russians, I have little sympathy for a fundamentalist group...

[Organic Revolution]

i am not siding with anyone.. both nationalists, both killers... i have no say in this matter

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 04:02 AM
Im with the Russians, I have little sympathy for a fundamentalist group...
That's interesting, the Russian aggression is what lead to the growing fundamentalism and Al Qaeda and other such groups entering.

[dissident]

that is right... the simple fact is that putin saw a winner in chechnya: use it to win an election by "cracking down" on Chechnyian rebels. It has been said, and it is quite plausible, that the Russian secret service- the successor of the KGB who are not really that different from their predessesors- orchestrated an attack on their own people and blamed it on chechynian separatists, which gave Putin the political impetus to send in the tanks to chechnya. Putin's popularity soared. So chechnyians are being driven to 'fundamentalism,' a desperate people, and nationalism or successionism is merely an attempt to break free of moscow's iron grip. The suicide attacks cannot be justified- but we must understand what drives such peoples to these extremes. The true victims are the people- both ordinary chechynians and Russians, who are manipulated by politicians who use nationalism for their own ends. It is a bit reminiscent of Kosovo, where both serbs and albanians were victims in the game of politics.

[Kez]

surely we should be for the chechen peoples right to national self determination?

We should fight for a socialist transcaucasian federation, with it the Chechens against the imperialist aggressors Russia who would turn at the first sight of a socialist caucasia

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

What we should fight for are mental institutions for all these fundamentalists...

[crazy comie]

I support neather side.

[The Children of the Revolution]

What we should fight for are mental institutions for all these fundamentalists...


You crazy fool!! Fundamentalism is extremism ... as is Marxism!!

Would you imprison the radical extremist Che Guevara??

Islamic fundamentalism, too, is offering a real challenge to American Imperialism - should we silence them??

I am "supportive" of the Chechens, but as someone suggested earlier, I cannot condone their actions either. Peace to the world!

[Kez]

Marxism is not extremism. Its relative. Labour would be extremist in Nazi Germany.

We shouldnt even passively support islamic extremists, they should be crushed, motherless pieces of shit

[The Children of the Revolution]

We shouldnt even passively support islamic extremists, they should be crushed, motherless pieces of shit


Huh? Why is this? Please explain...

[18tir]

I support the people of Chechyna in their fight for freedom and independence. The Russian military is responsible for terrible crimes. They are occupying Chechyna and have killed tens of thousands of civilians and rebels. Most of the atrocities are being committed by them. Chechyna has been mostly destroyed.

It is unfortunate that the Islamic fundamentalists have gained so much power. From what I hear, the Chechens never embraced fundamentalism. Their struggle for freedom was always nationalistic. It was only in the late 90s that the fundamentalists were able to takeover. I hope that the Chechen people can reject right-wing fudamentalism, organize a secular and democratic resistance and throw the occupiers out.

[Kez]

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 9 2004, 10:09 PM


We shouldnt even passively support islamic extremists, they should be crushed, motherless pieces of shit


Huh? Why is this? Please explain...
because their religious fundamentalists...need i say more. Why on earth should we support them? beecause theyre the underdog against the imperialist aggressor? Our aims lie in the working class, what will these fundamentalists do to help Chechen workers, other than supress their workers rights, as well as human rights? Using your argument, the Taliban should also be supported!

[The Children of the Revolution]

Marxism is not extremism. Its relative. Labour would be extremist in Nazi Germany.


Marxism/Anarchism is as extreme as politics gets. Therefore I would deem it "radical" in any society barring a communist one. Islamic fundamentalism is also extreme. But to use your argument, it is not so in a Muslim country which embraces MOST of the values they subscribe to.



because their religious fundamentalists...need i say more.


Just out of morbid curiosity, would you brand all religious Fundamentalists as "motherless pieces of shit"?



Why on earth should we support them? beecause they're the underdog against the imperialist aggressor? Our aims lie in the working class ...


If these fundamentalists were to lose, this would represent an extension of Imperialist power. Which is a bad thing. Imperialists commit atrocities too - the Iraqi invasion killed more innocents than 9-11 did. Imperialists oppress the workers - obviously. And Imperialists restrict human rights as well. Why then, should we NOT support the fundamentalists?

Also, bear in mind that the situation in many Islamic countries is VERY different to our own. In almost all cases, political workers uprisings would be rejected straight away. Islam IS politics. The workers do not want to see a "Godless Communist" state. Do not presume to impose our idea of "utopia" on them!

[Zanzibar]

I certainly don't support islamic fundementalists.
Nor do I support Russia as it stands today.

There you have it.

[Guerilla22]

It should be taken into consideration that often oppression is the under lying factor in creating fundamentalism however, it should be taken into account that acts of violence against a certain people, also creates fundementalism in the opposite extreme. Case in point; 9/11.

[acg4_9]

this conflict is one of the dirty plans by the CIA from one hand and puten with his dirty gang on the other hand. america doesn't want a strong russia so she used chechen to make sure that russia is busy and to update the CIA knowledge about the russian military power it's a copy from the soviet-afghanestan war that happened in the 80s which led to the creation of ibn laden and his gang and was one of the causes of the 91 crisis. on the other hand the russian nationalists need a reason to slow up dmocracy and to increase the military budget. the only losers are the civilians and especially the working class. the only ones whom we must support are the honest men and women that fight for peace not for money.

god bless our freedom fighters.
viva iraq, viva palestine.