death of socrates

[ComradeRed]

http://www2.uerj.br/~fil/imagens/socrates.jpg this is my favorite pic by jacques louis david. I love this, socrates dies for what he believes in.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Then sends man into an Apollonian decline for the next 2,000 years!

oh how very nietzschen of me

[allixpeeke]

The colors, lighting, and perspective were very well applied in that painting.

~~~alex.

[Anarchist Freedom]

yah socrates is a great man


:che:


CGLM! (http://www.cglm.tk)

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 7 2004, 08:02 PM
yah socrates is a great man


:che:


CGLM! (http://www.cglm.tk)
I disagree.

[STI]

Parappa! WooHoo!

[hazard]

maybe he did die for what he believed in

but he really died because he didn't conduct himself accordingly in a court of law

if he was less intent upon conducting a lecture upon the nature of existence, in that he claimed that the court would be idiotic to sentence him to death since death might in fact be the greatest good known to humanity, and more intent upon defending his sorry ass from the death penalty he probably wouldn't have even been banished or charged for the matter

but nooooooooo

socrates felt he had to make the court and the senators and everybody else look like a bunch of idiots

which is, I guess, is something he believed in

so, if he was arguing, which he did, that his society was SO stupid that they might be sentencing him to the greatest possible good a human can ever know (death), then he did indeed die in order to prove that society was that stupid

he never really made a stand against capital punishment before, so I don't really think that that was what he believed in.

"all I know is that I don't know anything" was what he REALLY believed in. see, at least he knew this, while everybody else didn't know that and just pretended that they knew something. is that what he died for though? its difficult to say. socrates may have become senile in old age. thats not my call though.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Maybe you need to look into Socrates a little more Hazard.

He believed it was better to suffer injustice than to dish it out, that I believe is his main belief. He could easily have gotton off if he wanted by acting as a sophist but his belief in discovering what justice truly mean stopped him from using sophistry to get out of the situation.

Read the Gorgias and the Republic for his views on justice and of course the Apology.

I am no fan of Socrates, I follow the Nietzschen line on Socrates/Plato but I do believe he died for philosophy and thus gave it new life.

[Wenty]

don't u think its hard to ever gain an opinion of someone like socrates as everything he says comes through plato?


He believed it was better to suffer injustice than to dish it out

i believe that 100%

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Well Socrates and Plato can be viewed as synomounous really when you think about it.

[STI]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 01:33 PM
oh how very nietzschen of me
Hey, hope you don't mind, but I made this part of my sig. I just thought it was pretty funny. Thanks in advance, but if you don't want me to use it, that's okay.

[hazard]

geist:

you may have focused on one aspect of socrate's position, but not the summation of it

the point of socrates trial, his dialogue, had less to do with his rather brief discussion on justice which took place in like thirty pages at the beginning of the REPUBLIC, and much more to do with what I have already asserted, the nature of life and death as well as the inherent stupidity in any governing body that would hold value in the death penalty

[Guest1]

Neitzche... wasn't he quite the fascist?

Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

[Guest1]

Marx and Neitzche in a bar (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=23&t=18290&st=)

[STI]

Originally posted by Che y Mar[email protected] 14 2004, 08:38 AM
Neitzche... wasn't he quite the fascist?

Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
No. He has been associated with the Nazi party, outside his own will. His sister, whose husband was a fascist, if I'm not mistaken, changed some of his works in order to suit her own needs.

[ComradeRed]

hey what type of art is it? like is it impressionist, what?

[pandora]

I saw this painting I forget where, if it was the Met or on tour elsewhere or in Europe, I do remember it made me cry and pre-empted the rest of my trip to the museum. Why do we kill those with wisdom, to blame Socrates for his death is to blame any person of wisdom, Che, MLK, Ghandhi, yes Jesus[even though I am far from Christian he did have some good quotes on poverty, Malcom X. All of these people knew if they continued teaching as they were that they would eventually face death, and many had warnings, but they continued teaching anyways.
Personally would rather be she who fights and runs away lives to fight another day, but this is not always possible with numerous death threats or legal ambiguities. So lets move from blaming Socrates for his own death.
Much prefer Socrates to Plato, and no they are not the same thing, will pick up this thread later if need be. Socrates was very much of people and spent much of his time around the town square speaking to ordinary people. Socrates moves through Plato much the way any man of great wisdom moves through his followers, his words are clear.
In my opinion Nietzche [sp?] did not have the compassion for the common man that Socrates did, Wisdom must be combined with compassion to truly effect change for the masses. Socrates understood this. Socrates reminds me a bit of an early Freire, but that's me in his wish to educate the common man for social change. Comments?
Signed a fool