DotP and the Workers' State

[Asero]

I've got a rough bearing on what they are, but I want something more consice.

So, what exactly is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the State of the Working Class, and, if any, what are their differences?

[The Feral Underclass]

A reason why this thread isn't attracting much attention might be because it is the oldest and most discussed topic on the board. There are many, many, many threads over the years about this subject. It might be a good idea to do a quick search and read those threads if no further replies are forthcoming :)

[TC]

A major problem with the learning forum generally is that explanations are either low quality, or mixed quality from which it is impossible to distinguish high from low quality comments. No one cites sources. And why should they invest in an authoritative post when they'd just have to repeat their effort dozens of times to similar questions?

Seems like going to wikipedia is probably in most cases a more reliable source than the learning forum - which is not to say its highly reliable. Talk to a reference librarian. Conduct some independent research on Google Scholar (preferably while using a university wifi - many of which are open to the public - so you can get free access to articles). People could post links to articles here (which would mostly never get read) but really how would that help?

Seems like this format of a forum is good for discussion but not so good for finding out unbiased information.

[Diirez]

I'll try to do my best to clear this up for you. I'm only going to explain the dictatorship of the proletariat. I don't know the other one.

The dictatorship of the proletariat is when the proletariat, the working class, has control of political power. Despite its name, it does not mean dictatorship, but rather a purely democratic system that cannot exist under a single party system (cough Soviet Union cough).
"The dictatorship consists in the manner of applying democracy, not in its elimination." (The Russian Revolution - Rosa Luxumberg)

It is also the transition from a class society to a classless society.
Evidence: "...that this dictatorship, itself, constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society." (Letter from Marx to Joseph Weydemeyer, 1852)
"Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of one into the other...in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat." (Critique of the Gotha Program)

Marx and Engels also believe that the dictatorship of the proletariat could not exist without force.
"[the proletariat's] ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions." (Communist Manifesto)
"That force, however, plays another role in history, a revolutionary role...that it is the instrument with the aid of which social movement forces its way through and shatters the dead, fossilized political forms." (Theory of Force - Engels)


So in a clear concise manner, the dictatorship of the proletariat is when the working class overthrows the ruling class and sets up a democratic government for the transition from capitalist to communist.

[contracycle]

There is always SOME class which imposes itself as a dictatorship on all others. In the medieval period, that was the aristocracy, and they were overthrown by the bourgeoisie. So what we live in today is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

The dictatorship of the proletariat refers to a state of affairs in which those who do the work, as opposed to those whose primary social product is violence, or those who control capital, are running the show.

The workers state, then, is one means by which the dictatorship of the proletariat could be enacted.