Weight Loss Accountability

[Redistribute the Rep]

Well, it's a new year almost, so some of us who haven't been doing so well with our weight loss goals have a good reason to start up again. Let's make the year 2015 a healthy one and keep each other motivated. I personally am not comfortable posting specific weights or calorie counts, but that's fine if others want to do that. We can talk in this thread or subscribe to the group The Jay started:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1287

[BIXX]

joined, will participate once i actually know my weight and goals

[oktaysinan]

I think wieght loss is not so important but fitness is important! :)
you can get fitness without much weight loss! :)

[Quail]

Joined the group, so now I'm not only accountable to my diary, I'm accountable to *gasp* other people. Not looking to lose masses of weight but I feel a bit unfit at the moment (and have gained holiday squishiness).

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Is this . . . uh . . . like, I wonder if "accountability to others" vis-a-vis one's "health" or weight is actually, like, a good thing.

I mean, whatever, do what you want with your bodies, but this seems like it's promoting weight loss . . . which, uh . . . well, probably promoting weight loss has ruined a lot more lives than it's improved.

I . . . yeah, this gives me all sorts of really terrible feels.

Should that be fleshed out in this thread? Is that another thread?

Eeeeg.

Uh . . . yeah.

[BIXX]

Is this . . . uh . . . like, I wonder if "accountability to others" vis-a-vis one's "health" or weight is actually, like, a good thing.

I mean, whatever, do what you want with your bodies, but this seems like it's promoting weight loss . . . which, uh . . . well, probably promoting weight loss has ruined a lot more lives than it's improved.

I . . . yeah, this gives me all sorts of really terrible feels.

Should that be fleshed out in this thread? Is that another thread?

Eeeeg.

Uh . . . yeah.
I mean, I'd be totally down to talk about it. Cause I can understand why you have the bad feelings associated with weight loss (I just need to be accountable to go to the gym, not really about weight loss).

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I feel like it would be promoting weight loss if the moderators put everyone in the group by default lol. A voluntary group to monitor fitness doesn't seem like such an issue, the OP just happens to be concentrating on weight loss for the time being. I think we should be as suspicious of 'health acceptance' currents, for lack of a better term, as we should be with the general 'self improvement' currents as well. Both leave people susceptible to manipulation either by market forces, pseudo-science and peer pressure. As long as this isn't advocating anything dangerous or disrespectful I can't see how anyone should feel offended.

E: Let it be known that I advocate for the shameless consumption of food at all times.

[Loony Le Fist]

Awesomeness. I joined. I'm going to be doing some basic circuit training 3 times a week with a day or two of rest between workout days: crunches, push-ups and prisoner squats (no weight) for 15 minutes.

[cyu]

I mean, whatever, do what you want with your bodies, but this seems like it's promoting weight loss . . . which, uh . . . well, probably promoting weight loss has ruined a lot more lives than it's improved.



Agreed - negative body image is not a good thing (http://www.revleft.com/vb/society-and-pathological-t189772/index.html). But if you are better equipped to storm the Bastille this week than you were last week, then I will cheer you on :grin:

[Sewer Socialist]

Is this . . . uh . . . like, I wonder if "accountability to others" vis-a-vis one's "health" or weight is actually, like, a good thing.

I mean, whatever, do what you want with your bodies, but this seems like it's promoting weight loss . . . which, uh . . . well, probably promoting weight loss has ruined a lot more lives than it's improved.


Well, "accountability" in the sense that weight must be lost at all costs would certainly be a bad idea. However, I don't think anyone takes Revleft that seriously; the everyday world exerts far, far more pressure on body image than a messageboard where no one even sees each other.

There are certainly healthy ways to go about weight loss, and for many people, improvements to health are to be had from it. There is also a lot of weight loss which is cosmetic or functional, as in for sports performance. Anorexia and bulemia are terrible disorders, certainly, but they appear in people with serious mental disorders, and typically involve different methods than people normally use in weight loss.

As someone with an anorexic mother, and someone who has engaged in concerted weight loss efforts down to fairly low weight, the actions and methods of both people are quite different.

[Loony Le Fist]

For anyone that needs a good strength training program, check out Stronglifts 5x5. It's a great program that mimics Rippetoe's Starting Strength, but without the power cleans (PCs are hard to do with good form, especially for those starting out). Barbell rows are a better compound upper body workout, without the form issues. I'm going to try this out when I can get a hold of a power rack. For now, I'm sticking to body weight exercises in a circuit training program.

Here's a demonstration. There are two workout sessions consisting of three exercises performed with 5 sets, 5 reps each.


Workout A
Workout A

Workout B
Workout B

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Kk. Thanks y'all for engaging a bit. I appreciate it.

[Quail]

I just want to add that I want to get in shape for healthy reasons, i.e., I want to fight in Judo competitions in a certain weight category and build up my general fitness. I have had plenty of problems with eating disorders in the past and I know what unhealthy attitudes look like. There's a difference between being nasty and competitive and creating a place where people can find mutual support.

[DAN E BOY]

I'm going to put on my science hat on here and talk very technical (for me).

When starting off on a diet, at the very early stages of the process, it is actually possible to put weight on. And this is how:

If you're an individual who does little or no exercise, starting to do exercise or even just more exercise (like weights, running etc) will increase muscle mass. Muscle is 3x heavier than fat. So your body weight could increase, but your fat mass decreases and muscle mass increases. But this is not something to rely on lack-of weight decrease long term, only for a couple of weeks or so whilst your bodies muscles are in the growth period.

Also i'll say one thing about the food part of the diet. So many people (and i've done it myself) select a diet that isn't going to work for them, and eventual give up on it. When you select your diet, try to make sure this is ''a diet for you'' and you can continue with it long term, not just a quick fix or something fancy. It makes sense to chose a diet you can use long term.

Any serious sports people struggling to get to there weight before a competition, there's always the athletes way of sweating it out with the sauna before a weigh-in.

[Quail]

Any serious sports people struggling to get to there weight before a competition, there's always the athletes way of sweating it out with the sauna before a weigh-in.

True, but this is only safe for a small weight loss. I know someone who lost so much water weight for a weigh-in they had a seizure.

[Tim Cornelis]

When starting off on a diet, at the very early stages of the process, it is actually possible to put weight on. And this is how:

If you're an individual who does little or no exercise, starting to do exercise or even just more exercise (like weights, running etc) will increase muscle mass. Muscle is 3x heavier than fat. So your body weight could increase, but your fat mass decreases and muscle mass increases. But this is not something to rely on lack-of weight decrease long term, only for a couple of weeks or so whilst your bodies muscles are in the growth period..

I'm by no means an expert, but based on what I've heard, read, and personal experience, that doesn't seem very likely. First, the person in question would need to do a program specifically designed for muscle or strength growth, but people here seem more focussed on weight loss on itself and so would probably do more cardiovascular exercises. Second, they'd need to have a diet specifically geared toward muscle growth. For instance, in a bulk I eat about 120-140 grams of protein for muscle growth, and would need to eat the same if I wanted to continue increase my strength and muscle while in my cut... But that's really difficult unless you go out of your way. Essentially, it would mean eating a regular health diet of about 1300 kcalories (not that much) plus one can of tuna (150g) and a can of quark or cottage cheese (500g) every single day. Obviously, you'd need to sacrifice some other foodstuffs to make room for the quark/cottage cheese and tuna so it eats into your dietary diversity.

============

As for weight loss in general, people tend to overestimate the amount of calories they burn and underestimate the amount of calories they consume, and hence some people gain weight while trying to lose it. I don't recall the specific numbers, but it was something like 30 minutes of intense cardio burns 200 kcalories (participants estimated 400), which is essentially two slices of bread with one layer of peanut butter -- not much really. The calorie loss was, in this experiment, offset by the extra calories the participants consumer due to energy loss, leading to many of them gaining weight. Key is tracking calories and other macronutrients. Weigh everything you eat, write it down, add it up. I have been cutting for one month, first at 2,200 kcalories for about 1.5 week, then 2,000, then 1,800 and more recently 1,700 kcalories and I have lost about 2.5kg of bodyweight and my waist measurement dropped by 2cm without any cardiovascular training. I only do weightlifting training, which burns about 100-110 kcalories. To measure is to manage. Meten is weten, je weet.

[PhoenixAsh]

If you want to lose weight (slowely) eat half a fresh grapefruit a day. It works.

That said. Scales are nothing...the average weight of a human can fluctuate by 5kg per day. Though this may sound extreme and usually is a lower number...it actually is true.

Scales are not measurements for fat loss but for body weight at a particular time under particular circumstances.

[DAN E BOY]

True, but this is only safe for a small weight loss. I know someone who lost so much water weight for a weigh-in they had a seizure.



I should have really pointed out there are health risks involved in deliberate rapid dehydration. Thanks for that Quail.

But usually the only people who go through this process are people who have trainers. The top MMA fighters have been known to sweat ten pounds of water out of themselves in one sauna session . . . dangerous.

Be carefully if your going to do this guys.

[Redistribute the Rep]

@Garbage Disposal Unit

Yea, I have struggled in the past with eating disorders like others in the thread, and have also been able to lose weight in a more healthy way, there's a pretty significant difference. But I'd be open to discuss more in a new thread maybe



That said. Scales are nothing...the average weight of a human can fluctuate by 5kg per day. Though this may sound extreme and usually is a lower number...it actually is true.


One should weigh at the same time of day, preferably in the morning before showering and after using the toilet (if you need to) for most accuracy. This is how I've always done it and have seen pretty consistent numbers with insignifcant fluctuations.

[DAN E BOY]

I'm by no means an expert, but based on what I've heard, read, and personal experience, that doesn't seem very likely. First, the person in question would need to do a program specifically designed for muscle or strength growth, but people here seem more focussed on weight loss on itself and so would probably do more cardiovascular exercises. Second, they'd need to have a diet specifically geared toward muscle growth. For instance, in a bulk I eat about 120-140 grams of protein for muscle growth, and would need to eat the same if I wanted to continue increase my strength and muscle while in my cut... But that's really difficult unless you go out of your way. Essentially, it would mean eating a regular health diet of about 1300 kcalories (not that much) plus one can of tuna (150g) and a can of quark or cottage cheese (500g) every single day. Obviously, you'd need to sacrifice some other foodstuffs to make room for the quark/cottage cheese and tuna so it eats into your dietary diversity.

============

As for weight loss in general, people tend to overestimate the amount of calories they burn and underestimate the amount of calories they consume, and hence some people gain weight while trying to lose it.


It's a fact my friend. It's not true to all people,but i was just stating it's possible for your weight to go up (in the very early stages) if you're badly out of shape.And if you think about it a simple matter of physics.

No, your diet/regime does not have to implement a lot of muscle building exercises, i simple walk a lot,but if your muscles have been neglected, and are then put to work , the density will increase and that creates weight increase. On the other part of the equation, you could be losing weight with fat reduction. But it's a fact that muscle weighs 3x more than fat.

Part of it is what kind of condition your body is in to start with.

The overall message really was it might take a little time to see positive results, but they could be happening slowly but surely.

[Loony Le Fist]

As far as diet is concerned, I would say carb cycling is going to be the best option to sort of jump start your metabolic pathways for burning fat. Rippetoe's caloric excess is ridiculous (he's calling for like 3000-5000 kcal per day, which is very unnecessary. You only need about 2000-2200 kcal (at most 2400 kcal if you're big, and 1800 if you're really small), and you'll be fine.

Here's a decent diet plan. I ought to go in and break down the carbs, fats, and proteins and tweak it a bit. Overall it looks good though.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hd-abs-the-ab-etching-diet.html

While I completely reject the aesthetic component (visible abs are for show), the bodyfat reduction is generally a good thing for health reasons. Under 25% for females and under 15% for males is good enough to keep your body functioning optimally. Also a general caloric restriction of about 10% in maintenance has also been shown in multiple studies to increase your lifespan.

[Tim Cornelis]

It's a fact my friend. It's not true to all people,but i was just stating it's possible for your weight to go up (in the very early stages) if you're badly out of shape.And if you think about it a simple matter of physics. .

EDIT:

Oh come on, I gave you a chance to provide some credible information and you say ''If you think about it a simple matter of physics''. And physics == gut feels? It's squarely impossible. Because what you imply is that[I] it's possible to gain muscle faster than one loses fat in a caloric deficit without a muscle-enhancing based workout program. That is more than hard to believe, it's ridiculous. Even using steroids just walking and moving will not do the trick.

This article was written for you:

"QUESTION: I’m trying to lose fat, but I seem to have reached a weight loss plateau. My weight has remained exactly the same for about 4 weeks straight even though I’m eating right and working out.

Is it possible that I’m still losing fat but just gaining equal amounts of muscle? I’ve heard muscle weighs more than fat, so I figured the muscle I’m building is replacing the fat I’m losing and it’s causing my weight to remain the same even though I’m still losing fat just fine? Is this what’s happening?"

"ANSWER: Boy do I love this question. It contains 2 elements that I love (a mostly silly idea and a meaningless saying), and this gives me a chance to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Let the fun begin…"

"Let’s see. Is it all possible? Technically, yeah. But is it all likely? Probably not."

"Fat can be, should be and virtually ALWAYS IS lost much easier, much quicker and much more consistently than muscle could ever be built."

"So the clear message here is that in most of the cases where you see NO weight loss for an extended period of time and think it’s because “muscle weighs more than fat” and you’re really losing fat but just simultaneously gaining an equal amount of muscle at an equal rate… you’re probably wrong. And by “probably,” I mean you’re wrong 99% of the time. (More here: Can You Lose Fat And Build Muscle At The Same Time?)

In reality, the reason why your weight isn’t decreasing is because you’re just failing to lose fat."

"And let’s also keep in mind that if you’re truly losing fat, it means you’re in a caloric deficit. And with the exception of fat beginners, steroid users and those who are regaining lost muscle, the majority of the population will not be building ANY muscle in a caloric deficit (let alone exceeding the best-case-scenario numbers and gaining muscle at the same rate fat is being lost at)."

"And please, for the love of God, can we all stop saying this nonsensical phrase? Seriously. Muscle weighs more than fat… WTF does that even mean?

Put 5 pounds of muscle on a scale and then put 5 pounds of fat on a scale. I got 20 bucks that says they will both weigh 5 pounds."

http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/weight-loss-plateau-myth-muscle-weighs-more-than-fat/

---

"This means you CAN design a diet and exercise program that will allow you to add some muscle and lose some fat. It will take a semi-fanatical attention to the details of planning and timing your nutrition and exercise in just the right way. It also means that you won't be able to lose fat or gain muscle as efficiently or quickly as you could if you focused on just one of these goals at a time."

http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.asp?post=you_asked_is_it_possible_to_build_mu scle_and_lose_weight_at_the_same_time


You only need about 2000-2200 kcal (at most 2400 kcal if you're big, and 1800 if you're really small), and you'll be fine.

2000-2400 on a bulk? I lost weight at 2,000, very incrementally, but still.

[DAN E BOY]

Do you have any sources then? I just find it incredibly hard to believe that walking in a caloric deficit will build muscle.

'If you think about it [is] a simple matter of physics'. And physics == gut feels?


Sorry i thought this was common knowledge, i've spoken to people in the fitness industry, and i have my own experience.

I'm just coming to the end of a diet, i wanted to get rid of excess fat.At the start of this diet i was 14 stone, i'm now only five pounds lighter. And there's been significant fat loss. And at the start my weight was hardly changing at all, but i know i was losing fat, because my clothes are looser.

And for some, it can be even more extreme:increase of weight at the start at the start of a new diet.

No i cant provide sources. Be a student not a follower-do your own research. :)

[Lanfear]

Ive signed up but for me the mirror can be a bneter judge than the scales. Also, body fat percentage is a better judgement IMO. Either way, I need to lose a few pounds. 16 and a half stone is too much for me

[Sewer Socialist]

As far as how many calories to aim for, it depends entirely on the individual person and what they're doing. I can lose weight while eating 5000 calories a day, depending on what I'm doing.

Additionally, some strenuous forms of exercise can cause the body to take on water temporarily as it recovers from the stress of training, which will cause a slight weight gain of a kilogram or two.