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Pete
7th February 2004, 04:03
So what do you think about this idea: Oil begins to go on the downslide, and it takes society with it.

Why?

Oil is used for everything, especially food production. Food production leads to increased population which leads to increased demand for food, and thus oil. Oil is irrenewable, so it is going to run out some time. Many experts believe that this time is relatively soon, and may be upon us (as oil 'harvest ahs been decreasing for the past 4 years).

What does this mean?

Well here is a little table put together by the author of the site I will cite at the end of this post:


If you'd like to use history as a guide, I feel the following timeline is a reasonable approximation of what to expect in developed nations such as the United States:

1-5 years post-peak: Major recession comparable to those experienced during the artificially created oil shortages of the 1970's.

5-15 years post-peak: Recession worsens into a second Great Depression.

15-25 years post-peak: Society begins to collapse. Conditions in the United States begin to resemble those in the modern day former U.S.S.R.

25-50 years post-peak: Societal collapse worsens. Conditions in what used to be called the United States begin to resemble those in modern day Iraq, Liberia, Somalia etc. . . .

50-100 years post-peak: Society begins to stabilize, albeit in a form drastically different than anything most of us have imagined.

Sounds like fun eh? And who said revolution was not right on the horizon? What is a driving cause of change, even in just the 19th century? Food prices. Indeed high food prices can easily be shown to come before times of major social revolt, such as in 1789, 1830, 1848, and 1871.

So why am I posting this then?

Well basically a few people on this site seem to be naysayers that the environment is a big part of what any revolution should be about. Basically I am saying that claim is ignorant bullshit, and using the Oil Peak Crash theory as proof. As we rely on oil and its reserves are dwindling we will see a higher cost for it, yet at the same time an even higher demand, thus even higher prices, in relation higher costs for food, which will also have a higher demand as the world population continues to grow, and that leads inturn to higher prices and a greater demand for oil; you get the point?

Sustainablity is everything. With out it, both environmentally and socially, there is no hope for the future, and it will create us instead of us creating it. Bland? Well it is suggested that about 100 years after the Peak Oil Crash the world population will shrink to 500 million. That means if you take India, get rid of half the people, that will be how many of us are left.

And there are also links, through global warming (which I have not back sourced yet), that Britain may experience drastic weather changes, sending it to Canada like temperatures within 50 years, which will only increase the stress on the waining oil reserves.

So my friends, what do you think?

Life After the Oil Crash - On Peak Oil (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/)

Edit: Here is another quote from that site: " It would take us a minimum of 50 years to develop a food delivery infrastructure based on alternative energies. Peak Oil is going to occur within five. Even if we stopped all wars, and committed ourselves entirely to energy alternatives such as solar, wind, hydrogen etc, the best we can hope for is a managed collapse.
Fossil fuels account for 65% of our current global energy supply."

-Pete

redstar2000
7th February 2004, 16:51
The best response that I can offer is that such a scenario is possible.

One thing you might look for: if energy companies think that the oil is really "running out", they will quietly begin acquiring coal fields.

Another sign: there will be a marked resurgence in the construction of nuclear fission plants.

Still another: major corporations will make significant investments in energy-conservation measures...while continuing to encourage consumer extravagance, of course.

No one really knows, of course, how much undiscovered oil there is...or how costly it will be to find and extract it.

I do not doubt there will be "shortages"--artificially created by the energy companies to manipulate consumer prices (as in California recently).

Whether or not there will be a true shortage in this century remains, I think, to be seen.

:redstar2000:

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

monkeydust
7th February 2004, 20:51
That's a very comprehensive site Pete, I read the whole thing and it's quite an interesting theory. I tend to be a bit of a sceptic about these things, but like Redsar says it's certainly possible. I shudder to think about the possibilty of another major war within our lifetimes, as the site points out, this could be a possibility.

Anyway, a another point:

I've also heard of that theory relating to weather changes in Britian. From what I can remember, the basic idea is that with more Global warming etc there will be more rain, this will be to the extent that it will dilute the salt content in the NorthWest Atlantic. As a result the Gulf streams current will cease to function (I can't remeber how exactly I'm afraid) and Britian will be significantly colder. Any more info on this would be appreciated.

Pete
7th February 2004, 21:11
I found the first link here (http://indymedia.org/en/index.shtml) and it was talking about global warming. The thing about Britian, which I have not read, can be found here (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/09/271761.shtml), here (http://maritimes.buffaloimc.org:8080/news/2004/01/7305.php), and here. (http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,582584,00.html) I have not checked this links, but they are linked from Indymedia, so take that as you will.

I take it with skepticism as well, but it fits into other things that I have been noticing, have had pointed out to me, ect over the past few years.

For example, moving into Iraq secures more oil fields. If their was not a problem, then why look for extra reserves? There are a few answers to that question.

Also, why the abandonment of Afganistan? What about the Caspian sea reserves? Well the answer on the site (first post) says taht is because the reserves are insignficant in comparison. And why go to expensive offshore rigs if the oil will last for longer? Same answer really, it is more expensive there, but cheaper then getting it anywhere else.

It is something to keep in mind, and the change probaly won't be obvious. One day you will wake up and have your new ration cards in the mail.

Soviet power supreme
7th February 2004, 21:11
http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...ST&f=22&t=18481 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=18481)

monkeydust
8th February 2004, 15:27
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 10:11 PM
I found the first link here (http://indymedia.org/en/index.shtml) and it was talking about global warming. The thing about Britian, which I have not read, can be found here (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/09/271761.shtml), here (http://maritimes.buffaloimc.org:8080/news/2004/01/7305.php), and here. (http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,582584,00.html) I have not checked this links, but they are linked from Indymedia, so take that as you will.

I take it with skepticism as well, but it fits into other things that I have been noticing, have had pointed out to me, ect over the past few years.

For example, moving into Iraq secures more oil fields. If their was not a problem, then why look for extra reserves? There are a few answers to that question.

Also, why the abandonment of Afganistan? What about the Caspian sea reserves? Well the answer on the site (first post) says taht is because the reserves are insignficant in comparison. And why go to expensive offshore rigs if the oil will last for longer? Same answer really, it is more expensive there, but cheaper then getting it anywhere else.

It is something to keep in mind, and the change probaly won't be obvious. One day you will wake up and have your new ration cards in the mail.
Definately, it could easily be a problem and fits in with several events happening recently. I guess we'll have to wait and see as to what the U.S. actually will do with the oil in Iraq, whether or not they will allow the trade of it to be dominated by U.S. companies and most trade to e directed there, or if they will simply pull out, allowing the oil to be traded for purposes not specifically helping the U.S and there allies.

Clearly oil is very importnant, as the article said for so much more than fuel alone. Plastics, for example are often made out the hydrocarbon chains found in oil.

Interestingly, some old Welsh miner I spoke to not so long ago, claimed that if there was to be a shortage of oil in the near future, there's still enough left in Wales to last 100 years, for the U.K. at least. Hopefully we'll find some other alternative as well, this problem does though seem to be a case of when rather than if .


Like many problems, sceptics like myself would claim that more people would notice the signs and give a damn about the problem, if it were a real threat. However, looking back at history, the Wall Street crash seemed to be an inevitable event, yet nobody cared to pay attention to the signs of it's coming, raher enjoying the present as it was instead.