Tiocfaidh Ar La! What do you think?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

In a user's sig XPhile I think I saw this and thought, nationalist bullshit.

And I am Irish, I know the history, remember watching the news when the Omagh bomb went off etc.

It means our day will come and it was first spoken by Bobby Sands the hunger striker, it essential is the equivalent of Che's Hasta la vitoria siempre.

But it has different connatations of course.

My question is as socialists etc. is it right to support groups like the IRA which are fighting for an anti-imperialistic cause?

I in my youth like any working class or even middle class young man supported the cause, most of my friends have IRA tattoos and support Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA.

But the amount of death caused by this organisation makes me wonder is it worth fighting for what is really just a flag these days.

Dont reply with Catholic discrimanation, that is no longer the case, both are generally discrimanted against these days.

Can we equate them with the Zapatistas for example?

[RedAnarchist]

I know what it means

I've put it there to show my opposition to the far-rigtht Unionsists and the fact that the British imperialists are still occupying part of Ireland.

I'm a little Irish myself and even my avatar shows Irish Republicanist sympathies. I dont like the use of bombs to kill civilians personally.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I know you know what it means, that was for other members.

The IRA and Sinn Fein are both right wing nationalists.

[RedAnarchist]

My Avatar is a symbol used by Socialists

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

The Origanal IRA were Marxists but the Provisional IRA are not, they are right wing, extreme views on religion, Catholicism etc.

What does your avatar have to do with anything.

They are murderers.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

The IRA is, or maybe was, a sanctioned political group that respectfully came to a treaty with Great Britain. the loosely organized groups now are just morons with bombs.

Um, the IRA was never a sanctioned politically group, it has been illegal in the South of Ireland since 30's maybe 40's and of course in the North since its inception really when it was the IRB.

You make it sound so simple, came to a treaty with Britian...

They are on ceasefire while their political wing try to uphold a very shaky treaty that is under severe threat at the moment unless they disband or disarm.

The spinter groups, the Real IRA, Continuity IRA are now running most of Dublin's sex and drug rackets and supplying the new breed of gang with lethal weapons.

They IRA stopped fighting for freedom in the name of the Irish people the first day they bombed a civiliam human being apart in their name.

[BOZG]

My question is as socialists etc. is it right to support groups like the IRA which are fighting for an anti-imperialistic cause?

Osama bin Laden fights the imperialist cause, do we support him? It is a case of whether the enemy of my enemy is my friend or not. You have to look at the broader picture and attempt to see what the IRA actually fights for. While the IRA/SF may use left-wing soundbites (like Hitler did), it does not necessarily mean that they are left-wing. The leadership of both groups and much of the membership are right-wing and extremely nationalist. There is also rampant racism within the nationalist movement in Ireland (as well as society as a whole). During the last Stormont government, we have seen the role played by SF, a role supportive of the ruling classes, with them implementing cutbacks and attacks. This is what SF stands for at the top.

We also have to look at the outcome of a United Ireland. What would fundamentally be different if there was to be a United Ireland today? Instead of a British (or Northern) ruling class deciding the faith of the population, we'd have the Irish ruling class doing it. The Union Jack would be gone but the tricolour would be flying. The policeman's badge would carry a harp. There is absolutely no basis for a united Ireland under capitalism or under the leadership of SF/IRA.



The Origanal IRA were Marxists but the Provisional IRA are not, they are right wing, extreme views on religion, Catholicism etc.

Being nationalists they could not be Marxists as such though I do agree that they were more left and socially inclined.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by BornOfZapata[email protected] 8 2004, 01:38 PM


The Origanal IRA were Marxists but the Provisional IRA are not, they are right wing, extreme views on religion, Catholicism etc.

Being nationalists they could not be Marxists as such though I do agree that they were more left and socially inclined.

Well I meant they called themselves Marxists although of course their nationalism makes that impossible.

I gather it was more of an influence.

[RedAnarchist]

I've changed my avatar.

Also, ,i've got rid of the offending part of my signature