Communist/Socialist state

[jullia]

Hello everybody,

I want to know, for you which state is or was the more closer to the communist princips?

[Blake's Baby]

The state of grace before the expulsion from Eden.

No state can be close to the principles of communism, because communist society will be classless and stateless, and all states are by definition an expression of class society. So all states fail on two counts. As to 'moneyless'... some states have got by without a universal equivalent of exchange, but not usually in the recent past. And the bit about 'to each according to their needs'? I think it's recognised that this is a factor relating to class again.

So, I guess, somewhere that didn't use money as such, but did have a class system, is closer than somewhere that has both money and a class system. Maybe, the barbarian tribal economies of Germany in the 2nd century AD, as an example?

EDITTED to say 'without a universal equivalent of exchange...' as that's what I meant to say...

[RedKobra]

The state of grace before the expulsion from Eden.

No state can be close to the principles of communism, because communist society will be classless and stateless, and all states are by definition an expression of class society. So all states fail on two counts. As to 'moneyless'... some states have got by with a universal equivalent of exchange, but not usually in the recent past. And the bit about 'to each according to their needs'? I think it's recognised that this is a factor relating to class again.

So, I guess, somewhere that didn't use money as such, but did have a class system, is closer than somewhere that has both money and a class system. Maybe, the barbarian tribal economies of Germany in the 2nd century AD, as an example?

I think the presence of a god would preclude somewhere from being at all Communistic. Surely the whole point is that there are no masters. If God existed I don't know if freedom would even be a coherent concept.

[Devrim]

"To the devil with freedom, to the devil with the state".

Devrim

[TC]

No state is or could be perfect - all human institutions are flawed especially in a flawed world, but I think Cuba comes closest to a model of socialism that makes sense and works.

[Blake's Baby]

I think the presence of a god would preclude somewhere from being at all Communistic. Surely the whole point is that there are no masters. If God existed I don't know if freedom would even be a coherent concept.

And, what you took away from my post is 'oh, BB's a Christian (or slightly less probably, a Jew)'?

[RedWorker]

No state is or could be perfect - all human institutions are flawed especially in a flawed world, but I think Cuba comes closest to a model of socialism that makes sense and works.

Then so is North Korea.

[tuwix]

No state is or could be perfect - all human institutions are flawed especially in a flawed world, but I think Cuba comes closest to a model of socialism that makes sense and works.

No, they don't. The Scandinavian states are as much egalitarian but more democratic. Besides there is no such censorship and stupid propaganda as in Cuba. But this discussion is irrelevant because neither state can be truly socialist.

[RedKobra]

And, what you took away from my post is 'oh, BB's a Christian (or slightly less probably, a Jew)'?

Our personal religious beliefs are irrelevant. I was disagreeing with the notion that in a Theistic universe, Christian, Jew or whatever communism would be possible. I don't know if you said it as a throw away line or not, its hard to tell on the internet.

[Ravn]

I think the presence of a god would preclude somewhere from being at all Communistic. Surely the whole point is that there are no masters. If God existed I don't know if freedom would even be a coherent concept.

Foreknowledge doesn't necessarily signify that everything is predetermined. Foreknowledge is essentially just a prediction. So, there's no necessary incompatibility between omniscience & free will. (Knowledge of an action, & the action itself are two different things.) It's got nothing to do with theology. It's just logic.

Since matter & energy can not be created nor destroyed, only transformed to either thing, a creator is superfluous. So stop worrying about god in the first place.

[Blake's Baby]

Our personal religious beliefs are irrelevant. I was disagreeing with the notion that in a Theistic universe, Christian, Jew or whatever communism would be possible. I don't know if you said it as a throw away line or not, its hard to tell on the internet.

No, it wasn't a throw-away line. It was a reference to a mythology of a 'state' (important word that) that is closer to communism than any existing or historical state. But, it's certainly a fictional 'state', and therefore as an answer, not something to be taken entirely seriously.

But then, I can't really take the question very seriously. It's a bit like asking if one would rather have a squid or a condor as a taxi-driver.