Kyriarchy rather than Patriarchy

[RedBlackStar]

I have a problem with the idea of Patriarchy being applied to modern societies Western. This is because it's my view that the real inequality that women face in these societies is gender stereotypes, which is where 'male privilege' takes its current form. However this 'privilege' is not a fixed thing to every situation and the level to which it may apply depends upon too many variables to be as set in stone a the idea of 'Patriarchy'.

Kyriarchy acknowledges this and is a theory based upon multiple power dynamics. For instance if a brown man and a white woman with the exact same experience/skills go for a job the employer may be inclined to not have a stereotypical idea of women, thus negating the brown man's 'male privilege'. He may however be a racist, giving the woman the advantage in that position. Boom, she gets the job. This logic is applicable to: gender, sexuality, race and so many others which all vary on being the largest factors depending on circumstance and individuals.

What do y'all think comrades?

See a more detailed explanation here: http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/04/kyriarchy_not_p

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I have a problem with the idea of Patriarchy being applied to modern societies Western. This is because it's my view that the real inequality that women face in these societies is gender stereotypes, which is where 'male privilege' takes its current form. However this 'privilege' is not a fixed thing to every situation and the level to which it may apply depends upon too many variables to be as set in stone a the idea of 'Patriarchy'.

Kyriarchy acknowledges this and is a theory based upon multiple power dynamics. For instance if a brown man and a white woman with the exact same experience/skills go for a job the employer may be inclined to not have a stereotypical idea of women, thus negating the brown man's 'male privilege'. He may however be a racist, giving the woman the advantage in that position. Boom, she gets the job. This logic is applicable to: gender, sexuality, race and so many others which all vary on being the largest factors depending on circumstance and individuals.

What do y'all think comrades?

See a more detailed explanation here: http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/04/kyriarchy_not_p

What I think is that this is another in an endless line of theories that want to address the oppression that happens in class society without addressing the root causes of this oppression (the class society and the family). Be that as it may (I realise I probably wasn't the intended audience for this question), I think the statement that the "real inequality" women experience is "gender stereotypes" is absurd - and it shows much of what is wrong with this sort of politics. "Gender stereotypes" are ideas - and people have stereotypes about men as well. Yet men are not systematically raped, beaten, killed for being men, forced to remain pregnant, forced to (as in China) abort, forced by the market into low-paying jobs, forced to provide household and reproductive labour for free and so on. Oppression exists and it is material; women are actually being coerced and violence is actually being committed against them. Reducing this to "stereotypes" boggles the mind.

[PhoenixAsh]

Kyriarchy is not about stereotypes but about the multidemensionality and intersectionality of structures of oppression.

And no...it is not about adressing the root cause...because there is a difference of opinion on what the root cause of oppression actually is. Marxists tend to think it is material...others see different root causes or multiple root causes co-existing at the same time. Kyriarchy is a method, or model if you will, that more accurately reflects the power situations in reality than the seperation of models.

[Redistribute the Rep]

Are the two mutually exclusive now?

[BIXX]

Yeah, to me kyriarchy just sounds like analyzing patriarchy with intersectionality. I mean, I'm not opposed to it, I just don't yet understand what is special about it.

[RedBlackStar]

Are the two mutually exclusive now?

They're like the Marxist theory of revolution compared to anarchist. Two seperate perceptions which reach the same goal but use seperate applications to the smae provlm. A comparison is useful.

[Sea]

*raises hand*

I have a question

Is it possible to continue to develop our theories without re-naming them all the time? When economists started adopting neoliberal theories in place of Keynesian theories, they still called it "economics" and we still called it "bullshit".

I have a term we can use to describe the interrelated web of discrimination that all sorts of groups groups suffer under class society. No, it's not "kyriarchy". It's this:

oppression

[PhoenixAsh]

Really? So all oppression is both the same and linear?


The term is used for more than 20 years now and deals with how oppression works in society. The fact that you are only now getting aware of its existence and do not know what the term stands for does not make it bullshit, nor does it mean it's worthless.

[Comrade #138672]

Kyriarchy is not an explanation at all. It is merely a description of different sub-modes of oppression, e.g., racism, sexism, ableism, and how they interact. In fact, it does little more than aggregating those and giving it a new name.

Anyway, it does not explain the source of oppression, which is class society, e.g., capitalism.

[GaggedNoMore]

Are the two mutually exclusive now?

This is something that I haven't understood either.

It's not a question of "either/or". My understand that the concept of kyriarchy came about in academic feminist/women's studies circles (I'm not sure about this though) as an alternative to the concept of patriarchy, given its limitations in understanding the dynamics of intersecting axis of oppression. :confused:

[TC]

Fantastic, another guy here to deny the existence of patriarchy.

Somehow I don't think you're trolling the Michael Brown murder threads complaining that the issue isn't institutional racism, because of sex based oppression, and anti-racist analysis should focus on Kyriarchy rather than institutional racism...

[BIXX]

Now, unless I am horridly mistaken, kyriarchy sounds like an acknowledgement of intersectionality and giving all forms of oppression equal sway kinda?

I don't see the problem that folks have with it.

[PhoenixAsh]

If there is any doubt about the relation between Kyriarchy and Patriarchy:

Patriarcy is the system of oppression alond the lines of sex and gender.

Kyriarchy is the intersectionality of oppression in general...including sex, gender and race etc.

The difference between the two is that Kyriarchy is more of a general model dealing with the interaction of different modes of oppression including patriarchal modes of oppression.

Kyriarchy does not negate patriarchy. They are two systems with different subjects and so sometimes have different outcomes. They do not negate each other.

[BIXX]

So why is everyone so damn upset about it? It seems pretty reasonable imo.

[PhoenixAsh]

Well, I don't know. You have to ask them.

However. Post-feminists have proposed Kyriarchy as a replacement as a step away from the idea of patriarchal oppression since they consider the sex dichotomy to be a thing of the past. (Post-feminism is not a monolothical entity and it is more complicated than that...but as a generalization...that is basically what it comes down to) and within third wave feminism, intersectionality, is becoming more important as part of the widening of feminist struggle (which is including racial and ethical influence on sex/gender oppression and their intersectionality...and expanding the definition of sex & gender).

[Rudolf]

So a question out of ignorance... is kyriarchy actually a model of the intersection of oppression or a word coined for intersectionality? I always took it as the latter and thus never bothered with the term due to not wanting to add yet another word barely anyone knows to my vocab. If the former i wonder how it differs from a feminism rooted in revolutionary socialism.


Anyone have any reading suggestions? :)