RevLeft Wiki

[RedWorker]

Marxistpedia (http://marxistpedia.mwzip.com/) is up and running!

I know RevLeft used to have a wiki. Maybe it could be useful if we had one again, but actually cared about making it really good this time. It doesn't need to be on this site, we can set up our own unofficial wiki for RevLeft users. Sea previously made an unofficial one, but didn't seem to take it seriously.

People come here and ask the same questions, and have the same doubts about communist theory, and there's no way for them to get in-depth explanations without reading books. Wouldn't a wiki help with all of this? Considering that Wikipedia and other places are the first thing people check, but are crap at explaining anything related communism. We could compete with them.

What I wonder is if people would actually follow quality standards, use reliable sourcing, etc., or would they use it for tendency wars and personally attacking other users? [which seems to be the prevailing mentality here]

If there's some interest then it may be worth it doing this.

[Tim Cornelis]

We have one. I forgot what it was named so I googled, the first one that came up, my best article so far:

http://therevleft.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Revleft_Users_who_got_into_a_physical_alte rcation_over_mistaking_the_Nigerian_national_footb all_team_for_the_Kenyan_national_football_team

[Creative Destruction]

lol

http://therevleft.wikia.com/wiki/Revleft_Clique


List of Revleft CliquesEdit
(This list is incomplete, you can help by expanding it)

The Kaut-Clique: a clique of orthodox Marxist social-democrats and centrists centered around Q and DNZ who compete for hegemony. Clique 'members' and associates: Tjis, Tim Cornelis, DNZ, Creep.

The Bordiga Totalitarianist Clique: a clique of hardtalk Bordigist dogmatists that use online revolutionary terror in place of debate to subdue their ideological enemies (particularly anarchists and Stalinists). Primary clique 'members' and associates: Takayuki, Tenka, Remus Bleys.

The Collectively Simultaneous Drug Binge Clique: users parachuting, bumping, and swilling their way across the forum leaving a delightfully entertaining plane of scorched nonsensical waste.

Leader-board Race (also see TCSDBC clique above): During any time certain users race to post in every thread in the recent thread index at the top of the main forum index page before another member of the clique sees what is happening and interrupts the attempt. The pre-game usually involves frequent browser refreshing to make sure that no admins are online before proceeding.

The Post Thousands of Meaningless Emails/Charts Clique: ckaihatsu

The Revleft Wiki Clique: escipates

[RedWorker]

Ya that wiki is a joke. I mean a serious one.

[Illegalitarian]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RevLeft


lol

[Redistribute the Rep]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RevLeft


lol

It's obviously written by a former revlefter, probably banned

[Tim Cornelis]

You can add more serious articles to the Revleft wikia, but I'd say if you want something serious it shouldn't be related to RevLeft. It will probably get personal. You get sectarian edit wars. Etc. But I was surprised there isn't actually any Marxist wikipedia. There's an anarchist one even, but Marxism offers a more sophisticated paradigm to look at the world. I just hijacked this defunct/inactive wikia:

http://marx.wikia.com/wiki/Marxism_Wiki

Usually, these projects come and go and bleed out after a (short) while. This one probably will but I'm gonna be active on it nonetheless. If anyone wants join me. Of course, you need to be a Marxist so not a Stalinist. Trotskyists are borderline.

[consuming negativity]

all of the stickies in the learning forum are outdated and full of broken links

why not just fix that and not bother with some wiki?

[Redistribute the Rep]

A sectarian edit war sounds like a lot of fun, not sure why people always use that as an argument against a wiki

[RedWorker]

A sectarian edit war sounds like a lot of fun, not sure why people always use that as an argument against a wiki

You've not been on Wikipedia much, have you?

[Tim Cornelis]

hi there http://marxistpedia.mwzip.com/wiki/Main_Page

[RedWorker]

Ok, let's do the editing on that.

[Tim Cornelis]

Yeah that was stupid. Not sure if it's doable or whether I need to delete the whole thing and reregister it.

[The Idler]

Good work, let's see how it goes.

[Creative Destruction]

iawtp

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Alright, seriously, pointing out that me and Tim disagree at this stage is like pointing out the Sun is a bit hot or that Mick Jagger is a bit old, but I honestly think that, regardless of the content, the tone of the wiki is too editorialising. You're supposed to be writing an article, not a polemic.

(As I said, this goes regardless of the content. Workers' Vanguard does this a lot.)

[Tim Cornelis]

I don't think it's polemical. It isn't as 'article-ish' as it should be yet, but it certainly isn't polemical. The text on soviet union's crisis of the absolute over-accumulation of capital and socialism's definition were copied from revleft, and a lil' bit rewritten, but they need to be rewritten to make them more article-ish.

[Redistribute the Rep]

I think next we should start a weight loss forum for leftists

[DOOM]

I think next we should start a weight loss forum for leftists

How to loose fat easily while fighting the bourgeoisie!

[consuming negativity]

Alright, seriously, pointing out that me and Tim disagree at this stage is like pointing out the Sun is a bit hot or that Mick Jagger is a bit old, but I honestly think that, regardless of the content, the tone of the wiki is too editorialising. You're supposed to be writing an article, not a polemic.

(As I said, this goes regardless of the content. Workers' Vanguard does this a lot.)

if 870 is talking about the fact that it's biased as fuck i'd have to agree

if not then i may agree depending on what s/he was actually trying to say

then again, the whole "marxist" wiki thing isn't exactly for people like me so maybe my opinion doesn't matter

---

also, for the record, i think linking to marx/engels shit on the first page is a bit crass

you should make a page of recommended readings sorted by author/subject/comprehension level or something

/2¢

[Tim Cornelis]

I don't see how it is biased. It seeks to provide information from a uniquely Marxist perspective, then obviously it's going to reflect the perspective of Marxism. That's hardly biased. In the same way that essays and papers written in academia from a Marxist, constructivist, realist, etc. perspective is not 'bias' even though it's not 'neutral' (but then you consider educators parasites so maybe that argument doesn't work for you).

Similarly:

"No, Marxism is a method or approach in the social sciences, not an ideology. Social scientific enquiry is informed by ontological assumptions about the nature of reality, which may or may not manifest as bias in epistemological approaches. Marxists, like other individuals subscribing to other methods, are susceptible to this. Materialism is but one approach, as is constructivism, behaviouralism, rationalism, or neo-liberalism. Each works from ontological assumptions. Marxism is no different in that regard. It logically follows that we then point out inconsistencies and contradictions to Marxism of those claiming to be Marxists."

[The Idler]

Are there going to be categories?

[BIXX]

http://marxistpedia.mwzip.com/wiki/Terrorism_and_Communism_(Trotsky)

Lol

[Creative Destruction]

if 870 is talking about the fact that it's biased as fuck i'd have to agree

if not then i may agree depending on what s/he was actually trying to say

then again, the whole "marxist" wiki thing isn't exactly for people like me so maybe my opinion doesn't matter

---

also, for the record, i think linking to marx/engels shit on the first page is a bit crass

you should make a page of recommended readings sorted by author/subject/comprehension level or something

/2¢

The wiki is for exploring the ideas of M&E. How is linking off to them at all "crass"?

[Creative Destruction]

Tim; maybe there should be a work group of some sort for this? Where if someone wants to contribute, they're assigned a page to do or something that like.

[RedWorker]

http://marxistpedia.mwzip.com/wiki/Terrorism_and_Communism_(Trotsky)

Lol

Why do you have the right to 'lol' at others' work? What have you contributed yourself? What's wrong with this? Looks like a good first draft.

[BIXX]

Why do you have the right to 'lol' at others' work? What have you contributed yourself? What's wrong with this? Looks like a good first draft.
I wasn't trying to laugh at the work itself but it made me laugh when everything was just placeholders and shit.

However I don't appreciate Marxism really so I don't really care for the project. But yeah, I was just laughing when I read it regarding the emptiness.

And even if I was laughing at the work (which I may still do) who you to decide my "rights"?

[RedWorker]

We need more people to get editing.

[Creative Destruction]

Why do you have the right to 'lol' at others' work?

Why doesn't he have the "right" to do that? Ignore his posts if you don't like it.

[Q]

Why doesn't he have the "right" to do that? Ignore his posts if you don't like it.
Likewise, if he doesn't want to contribute to this project, he may refrain from posting at all.

[Q]

Just created an account myself :)

Question though about this:

Marxistpedia rejects several tendencies which it does not consider to be Marxist, such as Stalinism (http://marxistpedia.mwzip.com/wiki/Stalinism).
MIA makes no such distinction and operates on the premise that "those who consider themselves on the far left, get included" as outlined here (https://www.marxists.org/admin/legal/charter.htm#c5). In my opinion this strengthens the role of MIA. It also avoids silly discussions like "but Trotskyism is closely related to Stalinism, therefore it too has to be banned!".

What I think is a more fruitful endeavour is to avoid presenting articles as The Marxist Truth (tm), and instead from the start write articles from one or multiple viewpoints. Like, an article on the Communist Party could have a Trotskyist commentary, a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist one and an orthodox Marxist one.

Also, this kind of project would be ideal to update this (http://www.broadleft.org/) :)

[RedWorker]

MIA makes no such distinction and operates on the premise that "those who consider themselves on the far left, get included" as outlined here (https://www.marxists.org/admin/legal/charter.htm#c5).

Yet Stalin and Mao are included in the reference archive... not the Marxist archive.


What I think is a more fruitful endeavour is to avoid presenting articles as The Marxist Truth (tm), and instead from the start write articles from one or multiple viewpoints. Like, an article on the Communist Party could have a Trotskyist commentary, a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist one and an orthodox Marxist one.

Oh, please no. But we may as well write "Trotskyists believe this...", but in no way different from how we would write "socialdemocrats believe this..."

[Q]

Yet Stalin and Mao are included in the reference archive... not the Marxist archive.
That is still better than not including them and ignoring that these political currents exist.


Oh, please no. But we may as well write "Trotskyists believe this...", but in no way different from how we would write "socialdemocrats believe this..."A different way of doing what I proposed. The point is to make such a resource open for multiple points of view and also explaining to outsiders what currents there exist within the Marxist left and what nuances there are between them on a variety of topics.