Patriotism: It's Place in the Revolution

[RedBlackStar]

So most leftist revolutionaries who I am aware of have found that a revolution should be global. I am inclined to agree with them. But does this necessarily mean that Patriotism is negative? I'm interested in hearing the views of comrades on this and why they hold that particular view.

[RedWorker]

Patriotism is worship of the state disguised in one form of another, and of course suffers from all the evils of nationalism.

[Illegalitarian]

Patriotism and nationalism are one in the same.

Might as well be proud of being white, or having blue eyes, or any other meaningless thing that you were born in to.

[Blake's Baby]

Not just be proud of it, go and kill other peole because of it.

All nations need to be destroyed. We're humans, not Belgians, Greeks, Angolans, Malays or whatever. Communism is the establishment of the world human community. There's no room for nationalism in it. If the working class is fooled into thinking it has common interests with its oppressors just because those oppressors have the same accent or wear the same kind of hat, then it will be less likely to make common cause with other workers who don't have the same accent or wear the same hat.

The revolution depens on the unity of the working class and its opposition to the bourgeoisie. Class beats nation every time. There can be no unity across the class divide - if the working class supports 'its own' bourgeoisie it's just strengthening the conditions of its own oppression and making its own emancipation more difficult.

[Atsumari]

Whereas civic nationalsim/patriotism/constitutional patriotism may have been reasonable back in the day such as the French Revolution, it's practicality in the 21st Century is very questionable. In other words, reactionary. When I talk to many people who support right-wing populism, most of them seem to be less about blood and soil or the Old Right and more about ideological identity as promoted by Geert Wilders.

I also have to question the imagination of those who believe that a world revolution is possible. On a social epistemological level, it's just absurd and unbelievably Eurocentric. Whenever I hear a leftist self-righteously condemning a worker's protest in some developing nation because they rally around some populist ideology rather than their specific brand of obscure theory that also promotes universalism but available only in European and some Asian languages, then I only hear "Only can you be my comrade if you do everything as I tell you." Just like the liberal humanist who says "Let's treat each other like human beings" when the language translate into "Act white"

[RedBlackStar]

I do of course agree with all the above comments.

However the notion was put forward to me that pride in one's country empowers the masses, as does any pride. And furthermore the fellow also made the claim that t love one's country is to love its people; when the patriot sees that Capitalism damages the people, he will see revolution as a just cause. I found it an interesting idea.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

It's a very strange socialist who does not hate "his" state.

[Sabot Cat]

Patriotism's place in the revolution is outside of it.

After all, patriotism is what compelled the social chauvinist parties to shun the Stuttgart Resolution, under the banners of Burgfriedenspolitik or L'union sacrée. This shattered the very foundations of leftist unity and proletarian internationalism in the First international, and I believe it's one of the primary reasons we live under capitalism even today.

[Comrade #138672]

Patriotism's place in the revolution is outside of it.I chuckled. Well said, comrade!

[TC]

"Patriotism" is the nationalism or sectarianism of nations that the speaker likes at the speaker's preferred level of intensity expressed with the speaker's preferred political ideology. It is a concept without meaningful content beyond "nationalism or loyalty to a government expressed in a manner that I agree with."

[Red Son]

It's a very strange socialist who does not hate "his" state.

Indeed.

Making parties like this, at least as far choice of name goes..and policy, quite baffling - patriotic-socialist.org.uk (http://www.patriotic-socialist.org.uk)

They contested Rochester & Strood by-election recently, the one won by UKIP defector, got piss all votes of course.

When I see patriotism in any form, I see only the potential for right-wing bullshit about country, people, race etc.