Is Heightism a real issue.

[∞]

It seem that short men and tall women go through some real bullshit.

[Redistribute the Rep]

I laughed when I saw the title.

But anyway, the short people in my family would get bullied constantly for their shortness. They are all female, as all the men in my family are really tall. But the tall women in my family get a lot of shit from the others as well, because apparently it's not feminine, so you really couldn't win as a female. I'm not sure how it is for men though. While people may get made of for their height a little I don't think that makes 'heightism' a real material hierachal relation, although I do remember a study where shorter men were perceived as less assertive by employers and therefore less likely to get the job. I would say this is more related to sexism, as shortness as seen as womanly, and therefore undesirable. But as I said before I think for women they want to be taller, since that's associated with masculinity and masculine traits are celebrated more, but then they also get shit on for being taller because it's not feminine.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

That rancid smell of SJW Shitblr fantasies is rather strong, here, I feel.

[Lily Briscoe]

No

[Sinister Intents]

Though the majority think I'm a man, I get treated differently for being short, my height actually has prevented me from getting a winter job and so has my appearance in general. I'd have to say that most definitely height gets tied into sexist prejudices as well as others like racism I'm sure

[Lord Testicles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_discrimination#Legislation


Examples of successful legal battles pursued against height discrimination in the workplace include a 2002 case involving highly qualified applicants being turned down for jobs at a bank because they were considered too short; a 2005 Swedish case involving an unfair height requirement for employment implemented by Volvo car company; and a 1999 case involving a Kohler Company informal practice not to consider women who applied for jobs unless they were at least 5 ft 4 in (1.63 m) tall. Height requirements for employment which are not a bona fide occupational requirement are becoming more and more uncommon.If it's not an actual issue then someone should inform the legal world...

I'm sure people with dwarfism don't experience any discrimination, and if they do then it's probably just "SJW" nonsense...

(BTW anyone who uses the term SJW seriously needs to be shot, repeatedly. It's a good indication that said person is a loathsome little shit)

[Lily Briscoe]

I'm sure there are plenty of instances where people are treated unfairly based on factors like height or weight or hair color or baldness. Is 'baldism' a thing also? Tacking an 'ism' onto the end like these are real forms of structural oppression is a few smells steps removed from the ginger pride parade.

[Redistribute the Rep]

(BTW anyone who uses the term SJW seriously needs to be shot, repeatedly. It's a good indication that said person is a loathsome little shit)

I was especially surprised to see that the mods use that term around here. Next they'll be lamenting the "political correctness" of the left

[Sasha]

sure, there is this really nice women with dwarf growth who comes to my work every weekend and the blatant "look at that monkey" behavior of a huge section of the crowd (both male and female) when she walks by is appalling.
but just being belowe or above average is annoying and sure you get shit sometimes but thats more on par with being a little over or underweight (ie not obese or anorexic) than being black or handicapped or anything.

[Lord Testicles]

I'm sure there are plenty of instances where people are treated unfairly based on factors like height or weight or hair color or baldness. Is 'baldism' a thing also? Tacking an 'ism' onto the end like these are real forms of structural oppression is a few smells steps removed from the ginger pride parade.

Except it isn't called "hightism" it's called height discrimination...

You show me an instance where someone has has taken a company to court for not hiring them based upon their lack of hair and then subsequently won that case and we can talk about "baldism" as if it's a thing.

Just because height discrimination might not be as serious as racism or homophobia doesn't mean it's not an issue. I imagine someone who has trouble finding work due to their dwarfism will view it as a serious issue and rightly so.

[Lily Briscoe]

The OP was very clearly not talking about dwarfism, but about "short men and tall women". I'm sorry, I just think the whole thing is absolutely absurd.

[consuming negativity]

as a shorter-than-average (5'8) dude, the biggest disadvantage that i think comes from not being tall is having limited dating prospects. and i guess there are some things with employment, like if you're going to be a bodyguard or a bouncer you need to be tall and built and such, but that sort of comes with the territory of the job and has actual reason behind it other than prejudice. so no i don't really think this is a serious issue that we should be concerned about; especially when short people are still subject to other prejudices such as those based on gender or race. and to expand on what TFAE said, the height discrimination that does happen seems to be tied to sex/gender (just like I said re: dating prospects) wherein short men and tall women get left out in the rain a bit. but considering it's really a gender issue i'm not sure we can consider that in any meaningful sense to be "heightism".

[motion denied]

Bald people have a hard time sometimes either. Is hairism a thing?


srs

[Lily Briscoe]

I played volleyball competitively growing up and being average height put me at a massive, massive disadvantage. Perhaps I should coin a term for the sort of oppression I experienced in that context.

[Lord Testicles]

The OP was very clearly not talking about dwarfism, but about "short men and tall women". I'm sorry, I just think the whole thing is absolutely absurd.

Yeah, I can see that and as Sasha points out if you're just slightly taller or shorter than the average then you probably don't experience any real discrimination based on your hight but that doesn't mean that hight discrimination isn't a thing.

Isn't discrimination against someone with dwarfism not hight discrimination?

[~Spectre]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hYGohikxL.jpg

[Redistribute the Rep]

Yeah, I can see that and as Sasha points out if you're just slightly taller or shorter than the average then you probably don't experience any real discrimination based on your hight but that doesn't mean that hight discrimination isn't a thing.

Isn't discrimination against someone with dwarfism not hight discrimination?

I love how they just keep reposting the same debunked points as if they didn't even read any posts in this thread

Anyway, I personally find shortness in guys really attractive. Not sure if that matters to anyone here, just thought I'd throw it out there

[Lily Briscoe]

Yeah, I can see that and as Sasha points out if you're just slightly taller or shorter than the average then you probably don't experience any real discrimination based on your hight but that doesn't mean that hight discrimination isn't a thing.

Isn't discrimination against someone with dwarfism not hight discrimination?
I guess it is 'height discrimination', and people can be 'discriminated' against in this sense on the basis of virtually anything, but that isn't the same thing as framing it as 'heightism' like its a meaningful form of structural oppression.

[Redistribute the Rep]

I guess it is 'height discrimination', and people can be 'discriminated' against in this sense on the basis of virtually anything, but that isn't the same thing as framing it as 'heightism' like its a meaningful form of structural oppression.

I don't think anyone in this thread has framed it as a form of structural oppression. Skinz simply pointed out that it exists and is harmful to people, and in my post I noted that it is probably a manifestation of sexism.

[motion denied]

185cm here btw

Feels good to be oppressor or w/e

bow to me, unless you're taller then I'll serve you

[Lord Testicles]

185cm here btw

Feels good to be oppressor or w/e

bow to me, unless you're taller then I'll serve you

Because that's exactly what is being said. :rolleyes:

I'm glad that we're all content enough that we can so easily make light of the struggles of others. I guess this isn't a thing that effects a large number of people or is even something we see regularly so why give a fuck?

"Put the little fuckers back in the freak show I say lol, I'm an idiot millennial. lol. w/e."

[Bala Perdida]

I get shit for being short. Mostly from my family. One of my cousins says I'm 'average Mexican height'. I also used to play GK in football and my skills where doubted. I was still decent, and I generally disregard my family. So I don't think it's to big a deal. For me at least.

[BIXX]

5'7" or 5'8" here, and I don't think it is that big of a deal.
It can suck sometimes to be a little short but I don't really think of it much.

[Creative Destruction]

i am 5'9" or 5'10", and, if i'm being honest, i do feel intimidated by guys taller than i am, which sometimes feel like most people.

[Palmares]

I felt I experienced issues around my height more in high school, where it's like a competition of machismo. I've always been short, but I guess after my growth spurt, managed a height a bit below average. But given my ethnic background, was bound to be shorter than the predominant Caucasians anyway.

But now as an adult, it doesn’t heaps worry me. I guess my life as an adult doesn’t seem quite as competitive, or at least in the ways it was for me in high school.

[Redistribute the Rep]

Now we're just posting our heights? Alright, I'll chime in mine. I'm a 5'8"'female, I feel pretty short as everyone in my immediate family is at least 6 feet. I'd like to be around 5' 11" personally. I grew really early so I was always the tallest in the class when I was a kid, but then I just stopped growing

[Sinister Intents]

I'm 5'6" and I always got picked on for being extremely thin/scrawny and for being shorter than the people in the school I went to.

[Lily Briscoe]

5'4", hard knock life

[Lord Testicles]

How do you people know how tall you are? I guess you measured yourselves but who the fuck does that?

[Redistribute the Rep]

I know you know how tall you are

[Lily Briscoe]

Who doesn't know how tall they are, that's the real question.

[Sinister Intents]

My family is generally tall, and I'm the shortest in my family outside of my mom sister and grandmother. I get picked on still :/ also. Also I'm apparently anunciating poorly today

[Lord Testicles]

Who doesn't know how tall they are, that's the real question.

Me but I think I've just worked it out...

I'm just over 4 bongs tall and my bong is 41cm, so I guess I'm 164 -174 cm tall.

Oh man, even at best I'm shorter than most of you.

I swear on Jehovah's ball-sack that my contribution in this thread wasn't due to some manifestation of a Napoleon complex.

I THOUGHT I WAS TALLER!

[∞]

i wonder what people on here think i look like.

[Sabot Cat]

Who doesn't know how tall they are, that's the real question.

Yeah, I have no idea. I also don't keep tabs on my weight.

[Palmares]

I'm like 5'6/5'7 last I vaguely checked. I haven't grown much in years, so unlikely to have changed. Learnt my height in school, for class. Also, I only know you seppos' (and other related weirdos!) goddamn imperial measuring system because I've always been such a huge NBA fan. :lol:

[consuming negativity]

I'm like 5'6/5'7 last I vaguely checked. I haven't grown much in years, so unlikely to have changed. Learnt my height in school, for class. Also, I only know you seppos' (and other related weirdos!) goddamn imperial measuring system because I've always been such a huge NBA fan. :lol:

man i used to love to play basketball when i was a kid and everybody wasn't a giant

they told me that when i grew up i could be anything

but unfortunately i didn't grow enough to play basketball

the struggle is real :crying:

[∞]

man i used to love to play basketball when i was a kid and everybody wasn't a giant

they told me that when i grew up i could be anything

but unfortunately i didn't grow enough to play basketball

the struggle is real :crying:

muggsy bogues tho

[consuming negativity]

muggsy bogues tho

haven't heard that name in a while; damn

he is the exception that proves the rule

[Atsumari]

Being taller than 50 percent of males and around 80 percent of females sucks as a crossdresser. The struggle is too real. :crying:

[Blake's Baby]

Yes, discrimination base don height is real; there have been enough studies to say that higher-earners tend to be taller than average (or the other way around), which somewhat suggests that there's a correlation between height and the willingness of others to admit you to the club of the rich and powerful.

In before anyone says 'but I know a freakishly tall guy and he's an alcoholic who lives under an abandoned fire-station, that means heightism isn't real!', then, one could equally argue that racism isn't real because albinos don't rule the world.

If you're male and 1.80-2m (5'10"-6'6" for you Imperials) in Europe or maybe the US you're probaly OK for the 'of proper height to be taken seriously'; if you're 2.3m (7'6" or so) you're probably freakishly tall. Figures for women I guess are somewhat shorter. I suspect women over about 1.85 might start to find that they're regarded as 'too tall' in a lot of instances.

Apparently, the idea Napoleon was short was just British propaganda, he was average height for his time and place. I think the fact that he was called short as a way of abusing him is probably indicative of the fact that we do have a lot of height-related cultural baggage.

[TC]

I don't think that just because someone experiences *disadvantage* necessarily means they're being oppressed and discriminated against, nor is it the case I think that just because a population has slight outcome benefits is the case that they are 'oppressors.' General physical attractiveness and intelligence and wittiness and personal charisma are also all likely to correlate with positive life outcomes but this hardly means that they represent axises of oppression.

[Lily Briscoe]

This thread makes me think of this cartoon that somebody posted in the 'political cartoons' thread:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p75x225/1545550_604340349636628_246644976_n.jpg?oh=1501491 99820c6a7b0d6d444a6b10329&oe=548E20BE&__gda__=1418782293_621c4f1189a533b992f531a2f7d8a60 6

Like, I'm sorry if you're a guy who feels like you're not tall enough to be "taken seriously", but comparing that to actual oppression seems to require an incredible disconnect from reality.

[Blake's Baby]

I don't think that just because someone experiences *disadvantage* necessarily means they're being oppressed and discriminated against, nor is it the case I think that just because a population has slight outcome benefits is the case that they are 'oppressors.' ...

I didn't say that tall people were 'oppressors', in exactly the same way that I don't believe white people are 'oppressors', but I think it would be idiotic not to believe that racism (especially institutional racism favouring whites, in Europe an the US for example) exists.


... General physical attractiveness and intelligence and wittiness and personal charisma are also all likely to correlate with positive life outcomes but this hardly means that they represent axises of oppression.

True. But structural racism is a way of defining "General physical attractiveness and intelligence and wittiness and personal charisma" as 'not being so brown'. Individuals making decisions - who may not be racists, in that they don't have any formal commitment to an ideology of a racial heirarchy that they're seeking to conform to, and may in fact be 'liberals' - can still discriminate on the basis of race (or sex, or both, or other factors) in (for example) job applications. This doesn't mean they're racists - the tall, white, well-educated confident guy may really seem the best for the job. But when the tall white well-educated guy gets the job 9 times out of 10, then, you can hardly be surprised at his confidence, can you?

[Futility Personified]

As a short person who used to feel rather small, people can be pricks about height. But I found that this is mostly in environments that tend to be patriarchal, because most of the time the stronger men are going to be the taller ones. Women can also be pretty uncool about it as well, and many people quite literally have looked down on me or treated me somewhat insignificantly based on my stature.

But being short is just part of life. Maybe I try and overcompensate by making an effort to improve myself intellectually or artistically, but at the end of the day... someone is always going to be taller, and someone is always going to be shorter. It only really becomes a problem when people dismiss you under the criteria of weakness, which is a patriarchal issue of not being masculine enough.

Is 'heightism' a real issue? No.
Is the patriarchy a real issue? Yes.

When the revolution comes, will there be a pruning of the tall people? Sadly, yes. But think of all the fiery zeal that will come from the energy saved of having to reach up quite high for things. Your sacrifices are noted and will never be forgotten, until they are neglected to be written down.

[Blake's Baby]

We're closer to the pens, so we'll write the histories anyway.

Yes, it's real; but is it as important as other forms of discrimination? No, for a whole variety of reasons. It probably comes a long way down the list of reasons people are systematically discriminated against in most European or North American countries I would think. A short white guy would likely still get the job 80% of the time over a tall black woman.

[Illegalitarian]

height is a big factor in how people perceive you, job opportunities, etc.

As a short person (I'm 5'7), taller people (no pun intended) have talked down to me and belittled me because of my height. Is this as rampant as systematic a problem as transphobia, ableism, homophobia, etc? No, but it's still a problem, and if you're mocking the issue by saying "oh what's next think privilege take your sjw speak somewhere else huhuhu" then sorry, but you're kind of an asshole and you've probably never been picked on because of your height.


Take your fucking suffering Olympics somewhere else. Just because you don't think something is serious doesn't mean it doesn't hurt people who are affected by it.

[Hrafn]

As a tall person, I endorse all forms of oppression against shorter, inferior beings. May I suggest labour camps for those unable to meet certain height quota?

[Tim Cornelis]

As a 179 cm (5' 10.4") guy in the Netherlands, I too have faced negative consequences of being short.

[Blake's Baby]

Mostly, in the Netherlands, I guess that's drowning.

EDIT, and if you're 5'10" and 1.79m, I'm even shorter than I thought I was.

[Tim Cornelis]

It's all relative. 179cm in Sweden and the Netherlands is short, elsewhere not so much. Hrafn will back me up. He's prolly like 195cm since he calls himself tall.

[∞]

Its I all relative I'm 6foot which is moreorless average but in LA I feel taller.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

As a tall person, I endorse all forms of oppression against shorter, inferior beings. May I suggest labour camps for those unable to meet certain height quota?

their tiny bodies will be worthless for work

instead we will eat them, as is the ancient custom of giants

[Palmares]

muggsy bogues tho

But without height, you have to be an even better than your average NBA player to make it. How many tall people in the NBA? How many Muggsy Bogues'?

:crying:

[∞]

But without height, you have to be an even better than your average NBA player to make it. How many tall people in the NBA? How many Muggsy Bogues'?

:crying:

idk man...those short players always steal the ball from me

[∞]

kinda weird how we obsesses over height when humans dont differ much in height

[TC]

Do you notice that in this thread that a bunch of people have been complaining "I'm a short person" and then go on to describe heights that put them way above an average woman's height (or, at worst, average for a woman).*

If you think you're not taken seriously as a 5'7 or 5'8 man, think about how seriously you'd be taken if you were an *average* 5'5 woman or a below average but still well within statistical norms 5'2 woman.

Maybe the disadvantage of below average male height is really just the marginal diminution of the full suite of social and professional and power-dynamic advantages that men enjoy. It feels like 'oppression' or 'disadvantage' only because the shorter than average man of this thread uses as his baseline the expectation of the full complement of male privilege, rather than considering the baseline of the average human being.

[Comrade #138672]

Why would it not be a real issue? Obviously, it has to do with ableism and normativity. As such, heightism poses a threat to the emancipation of the proletariat, and should be combated as such.

Edit: I forgot about sexism, as explained by TC.

[Quail]

Me but I think I've just worked it out...

I'm just over 4 bongs tall and my bong is 41cm, so I guess I'm 164 -174 cm tall.

Oh man, even at best I'm shorter than most of you.

I swear on Jehovah's ball-sack that my contribution in this thread wasn't due to some manifestation of a Napoleon complex.

I THOUGHT I WAS TALLER!

I like that you measured your height in bongs. But anyway, unless you've shrunk you're probably a bit taller than 164cm because that's my height and I'm sure you're taller than me.

On a more serious note, I don't think that height discrimination is a form of oppression all on its own, but rather a manifestation of other forms of oppression - patriarchy and ableism, as other users have already pointed out. Tall women and short men don't fit into the standard ideals of femininity and masculinity, so of course will be penalised for that by a sexist society.

[The Feral Underclass]

I make it my life's work to walk around patting small adults on the head.

[Comrade #138672]

Measuring your height in bongs probably means that you are smoking too much pot. :laugh:

[Lily Briscoe]

I like that you measured your height in bongs. But anyway, unless you've shrunk you're probably a bit taller than 164cm because that's my height and I'm sure you're taller than me.

On a more serious note, I don't think that height discrimination is a form of oppression all on its own, but rather a manifestation of other forms of oppression - patriarchy and ableism, as other users have already pointed out. Tall women and short men don't fit into the standard ideals of femininity and masculinity, so of course will be penalised for that by a sexist society.

I just looked up 'average female model height' and this was the first thing that came up: "While there are some exceptions, in most cases female commercial models have to be at least 5'6 or 5'7 and usually no more than 5'11 tall (for male models at least 5'9). If you are 5'5 or under your chances of success are very limited in comparison to taller models." Incidentally, most women are 5'5" or under.

I don't really think patriarchy penalizes taller women by default at all, or that it automatically falls outside some feminine ideal. Honestly, I think a lot of this stuff is incredibly subjective. Like, there are always people who will find something superficial to tease/judge other people about, that doesn't necessarily constitute 'discrimination'.

[Quail]

I just looked up 'average female model height' and this was the first thing that came up: "While there are some exceptions, in most cases female commercial models have to be at least 5'6 or 5'7 and usually no more than 5'11 tall (for male models at least 5'9). If you are 5'5 or under your chances of success are very limited in comparison to taller models." Incidentally, most women are 5'5" or under.

I don't really think patriarchy penalizes taller women by default at all, or that it automatically falls outside some feminine ideal. Honestly, I think a lot of this stuff is incredibly subjective. Like, there are always people who will find something superficial to tease/judge other people about, that doesn't necessarily constitute 'discrimination'.

Oh no, I could never be a model :ohmy:

But the thing is, I guess models are chosen to look good as basically human coat hangers, whereas in general taller women are kind of seen as emasculating to men. A big tall woman doesn't really fit in with the idea of someone who needs protecting, and a small, thin build seems to be what is considered feminine. There is pressure on women to lose weight, for example, and muscular women are often considered unattractive.

I think other people have been more eloquent than me, but I think the "superficial" things that people pick up as things to bully people for are based on the prejudices of the society they live in. When there are certain qualities that woman "should" possess, the women who don't possess those qualities are going to be the ones who experience the most judgement and teasing.

[RedAnarchist]

I'm 5 foot 9/175cm, so neither short or tall, just average and that's the way I like it. Most men in my area tend to be around 5 foot 7 to 6 foot.

[Lily Briscoe]

Oh no, I could never be a model :ohmy: Haha, welcome to the club.


But the thing is, I guess models are chosen to look good as basically human coat hangers, whereas in general taller women are kind of seen as emasculating to men. A big tall woman doesn't really fit in with the idea of someone who needs protecting, and a small, thin build seems to be what is considered feminine. There is pressure on women to lose weight, for example, and muscular women are often considered unattractive.

I think other people have been more eloquent than me, but I think the "superficial" things that people pick up as things to bully people for are based on the prejudices of the society they live in. When there are certain qualities that woman "should" possess, the women who don't possess those qualities are going to be the ones who experience the most judgement and teasing.
Idk man, I don't really see it this way. I don't think 'feminine norms' in the west in 2014 are so narrow that 'tiny, helpless, delicate flower' is the only acceptable 'type' and any divergence from this automatically carries a social 'penalty'.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I grew up playing volleyball. I played on both school and club teams (I was the 'libero', which is the only position where height isn't an absolute necessity, so was typically the only one on the team who wasn't a giant), and tended to be in the same social group as most of my teammates, many of whom were 5'9-6'0 female jocks. These were not girls who were subjected to 'bullying' either on the basis of their athleticism or their height. If anything, as far as 'social status' is concerned, I think both of these traits probably worked to their advantage more often than not.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I really do think it's pretty much on the same level as talking about 'ginger discrimination'. Do people with red hair and freckles sometimes get teased and bullied on that basis? Yes. Does having red hair and freckles necessarily carry a social penalty? No. Is there structural discrimination against 'gingers'? No. And for socialists, I think discrimination needs to be understood as something structural rather than simply a matter of possessing some trait that differs from the norm in some way that sometimes causes people to be teased and "not taken seriously". After awhile, it just starts to seem like a case of academics in humanities departments trying to think up new ways that they could be oppressed.

[consuming negativity]

research from 2004:



In this article, the authors propose a theoretical model of the relationship between physical height and career success. We then test several linkages in the model based on a meta-analysis of the literature, with results indicating that physical height is significantly related to measures of social esteem (p-hat = .41), leader emergence (p-hat = .24), and performance (p-hat = .18). Height was somewhat more strongly related to success for men (p-hat = .29) than for women (p-hat = .21), although this difference was not significant. Finally, given that almost no research has examined the relationship between individuals’ physical height and their incomes, we present four large-sample studies (total N = 8,590) showing that height is positively related to income (p-hat = .26) after controlling for sex, age, and weight. Overall, this article presents the most comprehensive analysis of the relationship of height to workplace success to date, and the results suggest that tall individuals have advantages in several important aspects of their careers and organizational lives.from the discussion:


In fact, a meta-analysis of our four earnings studies suggested a mean sample-size weighted validity of .31. Moreover, the unstandardized coefficients suggested that an individual who is 72 in. tall would be predicted to earn almost $166,000 more across a 30-year career than an individual who is 65 in. tall. Our analysis in Study 2 revealed that the effect of height appears to be quite stable over the course of one’s career; height does not appear to be an ephemeral advantage that matters only early in life and then dissipates. In general, the combined results presented in this article suggest important, meaningful differences in workplace success depending on physical height. Thus, one important takeaway from this investigation is that the topic of physical height deserves equal footing with other types of physical attributes that garner serious scholarly attention, such as attractiveness and weight.link: http://m.timothy-judge.com/Height%20paper--JAP%20published.pdf

[Lily Briscoe]

I'm sure you could find similar trends with introverted people, bald people, people who chronically have acne, etc.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/13/discrimination-bald-men_n_3748896.html