How should a British Communist feel about the EU?

[Red Star Rising]

I personally hate the way that the EU is run, but I hate the people who want to get out of the EU (for all the wrong reasons) more. Do I think Britain would be better off out of the EU? Probably not tbh. Do I care at all? Not really, at the end of the day I don't think I can feel any better about more/less foreign investment considering my stance on capitalism and the EU right now just seems to be a tangled mess of bureaucracy in a big bloc of capitalism. I think that a European union should exist though, just not like this (I guess my ideal picture of a democratically operating alliance of peoples sharing ideas and resources united against capitalism is not particularly realistic though).

I usually recycle my stance on the Bolshevik revolution - they started off with the right idea I suppose but after a while they fucked it up completely, partly due to things well beyond their control.

Anyway, what do others think about the European Union? Please, share your thoughts, I can't really settle on a particular side of the fence in the current context because both seem barren and unappealing to me.

[Per Levy]

personally i think commies should be more concerned about workers than if a bourgeois state is in an alliance of bourgeois states or not. cause the british state will shit all over you, in the eu or not. austerity will be enforced, eu or not eu.

[Blake's Baby]

... I can't really settle on a particular side of the fence in the current context because both seem barren and unappealing to me.

There's a reason for that.

In whose interest does the EU exist?

It's primarily for big (generally international) business, because it's easier to operate in a big single market with unitary standards, unitary money (though not all EU member-states are in the Eurozone obviously) and economic integration (even if this is only partial).

It's mostly opposed by the petite-bourgeoisie, which doesn't tend to operate across borders and resents the cost of the EU (while being happy to take the subsidies).

Any gains for the working class from either of these options are accidental, merely the result of something that benefits either the haute- or petite-bourgeoisie, and are completely dependent on circumstance I think.

EDIT: or what Per Levy said, basically.

[RedWorker]

Check out the CPGB(PCC)'s position on the EU.

[Redhead]

I am a member of the Norwegian "No to EU". We have 4 reasons to say no (Norway is not a member of the EU).

1. Democracy - With the power centralized in another country, people in Norway will have less influence on the society.

2. Solidarity - In the WTO, EU is pressing poor countries into allowing establishments of multinational countries. EU also demands former colonial countries to enter unfair "free-trade" agreements. All in all EU with the support of WTO keeps pressing on poor countries, and suppressing them so they cant build their own stable economy.

3. Environment - The EUs desire for increased economic growth leads to centralization and large-scale production, leading to overconsumption of recources, increased transport and pollution.

4. Freedom - The EU often speak with one voice in international arenas such as the UN. Our nabouring country, Sweden, used to vote as often with the North as with the South. As a EU country, Sweden now almost never vote with the south.

This is our 4 reasons. Norway have had two referendums about the EU, but have voted it down twice. This is why its important for us to remain outside the EU

[Q]

Check out the CPGB(PCC)'s position on the EU.
You might as well spell it out:

- The European Union is obviously an alliance of bourgeois states. Therefore, wanting to leave the EU is akin to saying you want to leave your country. So, where does that logic end? A workers province? A workers municipality? A workers borough...?

- Capitalism is a global system with strongly interconnected ties between states. One could speak of a hierarchy of states with the US being the global hegemon currently. One cannot simply leave this network of states without triggering massive capital flight to tax havens, hugely increased interest rates on state debt and even embargo and sanctions or military action.

- To start with a positive alternative towards capitalism therefore, workers need to think on a global level and at the very least on a continental level. Taking power in Europe would be a massive chunk out of the capitalist core countries. Also, Europe at least has the possibility and resources to start offering something that is better than capitalism (even though that doesn't mean communism just yet).

- Therefore our slogan should be for a Democratic Republic of Europe and we should aim to organise the workers movement on a continental level, have a CPEU and start formulating political/democratic demands on a European level.

[Red Star Rising]

I guess the main reason I'm not totally opposed to the EU (though I do hate the thing) is that I hate UKIP more. I just can't stand their hypocrisy..."oh no British people taking the jobs of Europeans aren't 'immigrants' they're expats! Totally different."

[Corbeau]

Some have said what I think so I'll just use this to define which side of the fence I am: pro-EU. Yes, definitely not this one, but it should be notable that the Bolsheviks in St.Petersburg, after gaining power, didn't strive to secede from Russia, but to take all of it. The same is with EU. "Proletarians if Europe, unite" and all that. The EU was originally created to unify the market. Why not use it and unite the workers, too?

The problem is that the main opposition to the bourgeois EU are nationalist states which are even worse. As I said many times, we need the February revolution before we can perform the October one. Union of bourgeois and the proletariat against nationalism is a natural one. Union of proletariat and nationalists (against the bourgeois or anyone else) leads to the creation of external enemies and can only lead to national-socialism.

One big advantage of EU is that it has put an end to wars between nations (at least on a local scope). A war between classes is much more probable if this option is out of reach.

[Comrade #138672]

Anti-EU rhetoric from "leftists", without mentioning the global nature of capitalism, is always a very sad thing to see.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

EU, no EU, no difference for workers.

[Blake's Baby]

Maybe, maybe not. We're not seers. But I think it's reasonable to conclude that neo-liberalism would continue, whether the EU continues or not. Capitalism would continue whether, there is an EU or not. It might (only might) be slightly more likely that European states would go to war with each other if the EU ceased to exist.