Return of the Black Army in Ukraine?

[Minsk]

A pro-Russian militia has taken control of the city of Alchevsk in Lugansk and is bearing symbolism of the Makhnovist millitias of the Black Army.

In this video, we are shown newly established peoples' courts where citizens pass laws and punish people.

----youtube.com/watch?v=fV70uDYUqlc----

They appear to have taken a semi-sexist policy of barring women from bars and certain restaurants for either being "prostitutes" or "bad future mothers" (something reminiscent of the United States in the '50's and '60's). They also had a citizens' vote to execute a man accused of rape. It is hard to establish if they are sexist or not, but these mixed tendencies are common in Anarchist corners. I can understand why Lenin got rid of all of them.

In 5:59 in the video, we see a flag with a skull and crossbones on a black background.
That symbol was the imagine of the black army under Makhnov.
----fahnenversand.de/fotw/images/u/ua_18ria.gif----
----raforum.info/IMG/jpg/1919_drapeaumakh.jpg-----
--upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/RPAU_flag.svg/1000px-RPAU_flag.svg.png-----

This is an interesting development.

[Sasha]

my cyrillic is a bit rusty but that flag looks nothing like the maknovist flag, it looks like a modern version of the chetnik flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks) which makes a lot more sense considering the orthodox-christian supremacist views of the separatists.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

my cyrillic is a bit rusty

It's the final part of the Credo in Old Church Slavonic; "I expect the resurrection of the dead and life in the future, amen."

It doesn't have anything to do with either the Chetnik or Makhnovist flag (who actually shared the same theme - death or liberty).

[Sasha]

Thanx, didnt the Makhnovists have "death to the enemies of the workingclass" or something along those lines on their banner?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Thanx, didnt the Makhnovists have "death to the enemies of the workingclass" or something along those lines on their banner?

"Death to all who stand in the way of the liberty of working people", or something to that effect, was the motto on the grand banner, but flags with "Liberty or death" were also used, as well as flags with just "Death", from what I know.

[DOOM]

Chetnik-Flag

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/r/rs%7Dchet.gif

For the king and the fatherland
freedom or death

Flag of the makhnovtchina
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/ua_18ra1.gif

Death
to all who stand in the way of freedom for working people

While the flag in the video has some old church-slavonic stuff written on it.

[Minsk]

Well yes, the religious message is obvious (these are Christian Anarchists afterall). The point is that they've formed peoples' courts and are at least attempting to create direct democratic rule. I have been told that Vice News picked this story up from the Russian media, which criticized the leader for imposing restrictions on women (however he said he was only kidding and that no one would actually be arrested - apparently it was just a message). In addition, they probably have a concept of forgiveness and retribution as a route out of execution, so I see positives from their mode of rule although it is still in its early warlord stages.

I was also told that Vice News edited the video to the point that the group is made to look bad.

[Minsk]

Actually, the part regarding arresting women was completely taken out of context. In the same meeting, the commander admitted that he wasn't being serious. ----youtube.com/watch?v=pmDig-dmJgQ----. Apparently the video was edited by Ukrainian propagandists to make him seem bad.

[Hrafn]

Are you sure it has nothing to do with Chetniks? The "Отряд Йован Шевич" (Detachment Jovan Šević) is fighting for Novorossiya, commanded by Bratislav Živković.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5VA8Ho61PPQ/U9ifMeN75UI/AAAAAAAAKw8/ePktdUR9dQQ/s1600/Bratello_Bratislav.jpg

[Sasha]

Minsk. Where are you basing on that these are anarchists in any shape or form other than the banner which we explained was not makhnovist to begin with?

[Creative Destruction]

(these are Christian Anarchists afterall)

it's not clear that they're anarchists at all, but if they were Christian anarchists, of all people, they probably would not be executing people at all. Christian anarchists are generally strict pacifists.

[Minsk]

Minsk. Where are you basing on that these are anarchists in any shape or form other than the banner which we explained was not makhnovist to begin with?

Well just look at how they structure their government and court system. Citizens vote on laws and punish according to said laws. I took this to be a form of Anarchism, and the flag seems to further indicate this.

The militia was previously interviewed by the Communist Party television channel in Russia, so they are leftists.

[Sasha]

you clearly have no idea what anarchism nor leftism is.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Well just look at how they structure their government and court system. Citizens vote on laws and punish according to said laws. I took this to be a form of Anarchism, and the flag seems to further indicate this.

The militia was previously interviewed by the Communist Party television channel in Russia, so they are leftists.

a) The CPRF aren't "leftists". The majority faction are batshit national chauvinists.

b) "The local warlord calls a gym full of people to vote on executions" =/= community control

[Minsk]

This isn't the forum for me it appears. It seems to be full of typical American leftists that subscribe to the CIA-influenced groupthink that has controlled your country's left for the last 50 years. Even the Marxists in these forums are Continentalists from the Lukács tradition (or as I call half-Marxists for ignoring older Marx's analytic shift and only paying attention to younger Marx's Hegelianism).

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Sorry, what?

Were you hoping for a board of Russophile Orthodox Christians who happen to like old Soviet iconography?

It's not like any of us is cheering on Poroshenko and his gang of fascists. It's not like we really have to choose a side between these two shitty options.

[Palmares]

There's always the Soviet Empire forum.... :lol:

[Tim Cornelis]

Well just look at how they structure their government and court system. Citizens vote on laws and punish according to said laws. I took this to be a form of Anarchism, and the flag seems to further indicate this.

The militia was previously interviewed by the Communist Party television channel in Russia, so they are leftists.

Being interviewed by social-chauvinists makes you leftist?


This isn't the forum for me it appears. It seems to be full of typical American leftists that subscribe to the CIA-influenced groupthink that has controlled your country's left for the last 50 years. Even the Marxists in these forums are Continentalists from the Lukács tradition (or as I call half-Marxists for ignoring older Marx's analytic shift and only paying attention to younger Marx's Hegelianism).

Most here aren't Americans. But no, we don't subscribe to the illusion that opposition to social-chauvinism means support for the CIA, USA, whatever. Indeed, this isn't the forum for justification and apologetics for Russian ultra-nationalism under the banner of socialism. Soviet-Empire, Socialist Ph-ala-nx, or other pseudo-Marxist (social) chauvinist forums would be more to your liking presumably.

[Lord Testicles]

He's already posted this bullshit at Soviet-Empire for all the oxygen thieves that dwell there to enjoy.

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=54418

[Sasha]

oh, thanx for the link, considering that have3333 is a notorious sockpuppet troll here i'll go ahead and ban his latest incarnation now...

[Lord Testicles]

oh, thanx for the link, considering that have3333 is a notorious sockpuppet troll here i'll go ahead and ban his latest incarnation now...

Haha, what an idiot, if he had just linked those imaged properly I would never have googled them and subsequently would never have found that post at Soviet-Empire. :lol:

[1pmintheafternoon]

Haha, what an idiot, if he had just linked those imaged properly I would never have googled them and subsequently would never have found that post at Soviet-Empire. :lol:

Meh... Not much of an accomplishment... It takes a minute to create a new account, and all I have to do is create a new account outside of my ip address. I also couldn't insert images because I was a new member.

This is the first time I've been on these forums in a year and a half, so I don't know why I'm being called a "notorious troll."

They banned me for defending someone being accused of racism during a fiery debate about Israel and Palestine where one side said Palestine doesn't deserve to exist and the other said Israel doesn't deserve to exist. I defended the pro-Israeli guy on account that both sides were calling for destruction of the other, yet the pro-Israeli guy was called racist and not the ones calling for the destruction of Israel. I wasn't being racists or zionist or whatever labels you idiots gave me... I was just pissed off by obvious antisemitism. Did I ever do anything that makes you give me a title of "notorious troll"? This forum is an abomination. Just a fucking CIA-influenced groupthink.

I can also see that all the M-L's have been purged on account that people are freely going around calling the KPRF "social-chauvinists." That wouldn't fly two years ago...

[Tim Cornelis]

(you're using groupthink wrong -- read the wikipedia page about the Bay of Pigs and the one about groupthink again).

Your accusation of 'CIA' is ludicrous. Yes, proper communist positions, meaning opposition to marrying the working class to the 'progressive' bourgeoisie for the sake of the nation, is really indicative of the CIA's influence! Class struggle and class independence is just CIA influence -- class collaboration coated red is communism.

The KPRF is pretty straightforwardly characterisable as social-chauvinist. If anything, this proves revleft has improved considerably -- counter-revolutionary trends being purged.

[consuming negativity]

Tim is right but I wonder just how much of revleft is actually american. Has there ever been a poll?

[Futility Personified]

Just a CIA payroll ;)

[Per Levy]

oh wow havee33333333, i have totally forgotten about him.


I can also see that all the M-L's have been purged on account that people are freely going around calling the KPRF "social-chauvinists." That wouldn't fly two years ago...

there actually hasnt been a masspurge since the december purges of 2011 really, most stalinsts have just stoped posting, wich is a general trend on revleft btw. as for bans, well those dumb enough to defend massrape were indeed banned, one could say rightfully so.

personally all defenders of a social-conservative, nationalistic, racist, homophobic partys that play the loyal opposition should be banned imho, but that is just me. im sure on soviet empire those partys are glorified, suit yourself.

[Gulag Simulator 2000]

They banned me for defending someone being accused of racism during a fiery debate about Israel and Palestine where one side said Palestine doesn't deserve to exist and the other said Israel doesn't deserve to exist. I defended the pro-Israeli guy on account that both sides were calling for destruction of the other, yet the pro-Israeli guy was called racist and not the ones calling for the destruction of Israel. I wasn't being racists or zionist or whatever labels you idiots gave me... I was just pissed off by obvious antisemitism. Did I ever do anything that makes you give me a title of "notorious troll"? This forum is an abomination. Just a fucking CIA-influenced groupthink.


didnt know antizionism was the position of CIA lol