Poppies on Remembrance Day

[BITW434]

Unless you've been living under a rock forever, I'm pretty sure everyone from Britain is familiar with the concept of the poppy. It seems as if your forbidden to go on television at this time of year unless you have one on.
Personally, I don't wear one. The only family member I know of who fought in the First World War was shot by the British Army for desertion, and I'm slightly uncomfortable with the rhetoric coming from the media when remembering the war. I certainly don't tow the line that the war some great nationalist fight for freedom as the powers that be like to spin it as. I'm of the opinion that the war was nothing but an imperialist bloodbath.
I was just curious as to whether any of you wear a poppy at this time of year?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I would wear a poppy happily for the British soldiers shot for desertion. Also for those who died, were wounded, or were psychologically scarred by the war. I would not wear it to glorify imperialist war efforts maintained to preserve global British hegemony (WW1 even failed to do that in the long run so ... what a waste, even by bourgeois logic).

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

i made and wore a black poppy today.

[ChangeAndChance]

Same thing here in Canada. I generally feel more pity for the First World War soldiers who essentially fought in a war that had no worthy goal at all. The ruling classes of the European nations simply hated each other for no justifiable reason and the "Great War" was the result: a bloodbath for the sake of a bloodbath.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

i made and wore a black poppy today.
You could also wear a white poppy which is supposed to symbolise a remembrance of all the deaths caused by the war, distancing the symbol from the militarism of the red poppy, and not just be used as a symbol by the Royal British Legion commemorating British and ANZAC dead. It's a pacifist symbol, though, if that's not your thing. In the 30's some people lost their jobs for wearing them.

In general I thought that the red poppies around the Tower of London looked like a river of blood. A perfect symbol of the corrupt and bloodthirsty British empire... most people wouldn't see it that way though.

[Црвена]

I wear one. The innocents who died because it was in the interests of imperialists are the ones we are remembering, not those who caused the war. Wearing a poppy isn't saying "yay for bourgeois militarism and imperialism!" it's saying, "it's awful that bourgeois militarism and imperialism caused millions to die, and I'm remembering the soldiers who died for no reason other than the interests of the ruling class."

[Creative Destruction]

I wear one. The innocents who died because it was in the interests of imperialists are the ones we are remembering, not those who caused the war. Wearing a poppy isn't saying "yay for bourgeois militarism and imperialism!" it's saying, "it's awful that bourgeois militarism and imperialism caused millions to die, and I'm remembering the soldiers who died for no reason other than the interests of the ruling class."

i'm not too familiar with the symbolism of the poppy, but seeing all the people who wear it... i don't think that's what they're "saying" when they wear it.

[Црвена]

i'm not too familiar with the symbolism of the poppy, but seeing all the people who wear it... i don't think that's what they're "saying" when they wear it.

It's practically compulsory for politicians to wear it if that's what you're getting at, but they didn't invent the practice.

[Creative Destruction]

It's practically compulsory for politicians to wear it if that's what you're getting at, but they didn't invent the practice.

i don't think the English establishment would make anyone wear it, through pressure or otherwise, if its symbolism meant "it's awful that bourgeois militarism and imperialism caused millions to die, and I'm remembering the soldiers who died for no reason other than the interests of the ruling class." bourgeois institutions aren't that stupid about the symbols they support.

[Црвена]

i don't think the English establishment would make anyone wear it, through pressure or otherwise, if its symbolism meant "it's awful that bourgeois militarism and imperialism caused millions to die, and I'm remembering the soldiers who died for no reason other than the interests of the ruling class." bourgeois institutions aren't that stupid about the symbols they support.

The symbolism isn't explicitly in opposition to the ruling class, but it is a symbol of remembrance of those who died, and those who died did so due to bourgeois militarism and imperialism.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

The symbolism isn't explicitly in opposition to the ruling class, but it is a symbol of remembrance of those who died, and those who died did so due to bourgeois militarism and imperialism.
The Poppy Appeal, the process of buying a red poppy, is run by the Royal British Legion. A 'charitable' organisation for veterans only who have accepted money from the war monger Tony Blair and Rachel Firth who was a member of the BNP.

[Lord Testicles]

“When men hire themselves out to shoot other men to order, asking nothing about the justice of their cause, I don’t care if they are shot themselves.”- Herbert Spencer.

I literally couldn't care less for our "glorious dead" so I don't wear a poppy.

[Creative Destruction]

The symbolism isn't explicitly in opposition to the ruling class, but it is a symbol of remembrance of those who died, and those who died did so due to bourgeois militarism and imperialism.

if this was only a symbol of remembrance of those who died, then i imagine it wouldn't be so controversial. it seems to carry other connotations, however. as i understand it, quite a few Irish refuse to wear it, despite, as i imagine, quite a few Irish dying in WWI. reading more about it, it seems like white poppies more represent what you're going for. why not wear one of those instead?

[Lord Testicles]

if this was only a symbol of remembrance of those who died, then i imagine it wouldn't be so controversial. it seems to carry other connotations, however. as i understand it, quite a few Irish refuse to wear it, despite, as i imagine, quite a few Irish dying in WWI.

Here's the reaction of some Celtic fans when the club decided that it was going to put a poppy on their jerseys:

http://socialistunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/x2np50.jpg

[kuriousoranj]

The poppy represents a heroic perversion of war. I will remember those lives needlessly wasted with shame that it was inflicted upon them, not with the gushing pride of the immortality in dieing for your nation that such ceremony idealises.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I think perhaps we should all wear red gardenias symbolizing dead soldiers from other people's countries killed by our own armed forces. At least there isn't the aftertaste of jingoism.

[The Intransigent Faction]

The poppy represents a heroic perversion of war. I will remember those lives needlessly wasted with shame that it was inflicted upon them, not with the gushing pride of the immortality in dieing for your nation that such ceremony idealises.

Very well said!

Last year, at least here in Canada, there was a big fuss over some people wearing white poppies as an alternative symbol of remembrance with apparent 'anti-war' connotations. Even so, the poppy remains generally regarded as a symbol with the connotations you described, and it makes more sense to question than to try to appropriate that symbol.

[bricolage]

I think the most telling moment of this year's poppy appeal was the official song which, for those that didn't see it, was a Joss Stone version of Eric Bogle's 'The Green Fields of France'. Aside from the fact that it sounded really bad the song purposefully changed the lyrics.

The third verse lost two lines:

To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.

And the entire last verse was removed:


And I can't help but wonder, no Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you "The Cause?"
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.

So basically song about the futility and brutality of war - essentially an anti-war song - was re-packaged into a jaunty, according to Eric Bogle, "sentimentalised" (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/joss-stone-criticised-over-sentimentalising-famed-antiwar-song-for-poppy-appeal-9847312.html) thing.

And this is not isolated, it's in the context of Michael Gove earlier this year speaking about challenging the 'Blackadder myths' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10548303/Michael-Gove-criticises-Blackadder-myths-about-First-World-War.html) of WW1 and the Daily Mail celebrating remembrance by producing a hatchet job (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826810/Dark-secret-doomed-youth-Warrior-poet-Wilfred-Owen-died-hero-trenches-startling-evidence-unearthed-WWI-scholar-tells-different-story.html) on famous anti-war poet Wilfred Owen.

Now I don't know enough about the origins of the Poppy Appeal but some people have written things about it being a top down way to sideline grassroots forms of remembrance. Like I said I don't know if this is true. What I will say is that it forms a very powerful way of framing conversations on war and the history of war (specifically WW1) and, more importantly, constructing the way that we collectively remember war. And this is all done for political objectives - fostering a sense of nationalism, and building support for current military adventures.

I will admit that they are isolated voices but there are also ex-soldiers who have come out against the Poppy Appeal, calling it a 'political tool' (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ex-sas-soldier-blasts-poppy-appeal-1884260) that has been 'co-opted by current or former politicians' (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/poppy-last-time-remembrance-harry-leslie-smith).

That last quote also spells out what WW1 was really like:


My uncle and many of my relatives died in that war and they weren't officers or NCOs; they were simple Tommies. They were like the hundreds of thousands of other boys who were sent to their slaughter by a government that didn't care to represent their citizens if they were working poor and under-educated. My family members took the king's shilling because they had little choice, whereas many others from similar economic backgrounds were strong-armed into enlisting by war propaganda or press-ganged into military service by their employers.

But now millions of working class men sent to the slaughter are reframed as the 'glorious dead' who 'died for our freedom' (neither of which are true). Meanwhile the Poppy Appeal is sponsored by international arms dealers and proudly worn by politicians who still drop bombs on half the world.

(On the subject of WW1 I'd also recommend this excellent blog (http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/world-war/1240) that Paul Mason wrote earlier this year on how it really came to an end.)

So no I don't wear a poppy because war is horrific and I refuse to buy into the memory of it as glorious. I think I post it every year but this Bordiga quote remains spot on,


In the name of a greater civilization, we curse those who for the sake of their ambitious dreams, brought about the massacre of so many young lives. No matter how brutal the crime, you will always get glorification of its heroism and tradition from the eunuchs of bourgeois culture.

[John Nada]

Maybe instead of a red poppy, everyone should wear an opium poppy. It'd be more appropriate.

[Alan OldStudent]

This is a video that makes me weep every time I see it. It's the reality of imperialist war.
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