Marxism(well, dialectics more like) and Buddhism

[Dodo]

Hey there lads. I had been a strict "materialist" of the western world-view for a while now. I still am, but with an important difference. Over the years I had spent in Marxist groups and rhetoric without delving into a philosophical reading of my own(most of the philosophy I read was to debunk my enemies or had an immense confirmation bias all to serve the reified concept of "Marxism")
I have declared a war on this for the past months.

But let me get to the point. As I started reading philosophy from zero with as little bias as possible, foremost, my understanding of the concept of dialectics have changed immensely.
Then, I grew an interest in something I hated(being a hard-line materialist, rationality freak I have a major issue with conspiracies and new age stuff)as I was reading on sufism for historical purposes. The whole issue with spirituality, esoterism/occultism, NOT CONSPIRACY THEORIES, and idealist interpretations of the world. I have noticed that pretty much all religious beliefs have a connection(besides the usual stuff like they are all built on generationally accumulated myths) to sage-ist, shamanic connection to "peace&happiness". I have realized that Buddhism had played a specially big role in this connection to spirituality.

And the more I dug buddhism the more connections I saw with dialectics. Of course, Buddhism has a whole set of ethical package that you can take with to come to terms with reality(though many reject that, it appears more as a philosophy turned into religion perhaps like all religions). But its cosmology, epistemology and even ontology has strong connections to way dialectics take the world into hand(which then made me think about the german philosophers of 18th-19th centuries and their connections to eastern beliefs from Marx, Schopenhauer to Nietzsche). Perhaps the biggest difference is that buddhist thinking focuses on the moment to find a resolution whereas in dialectics there is a strong emphasis on the un-ending struggles and what resolution will come next(though buddhism also accepts the un-ending change).

Most Marxists almost have a religious connection to(disguised in "science") Marxist concepts and that all suffering lies in the class-society we live in, and that communism will -mostly- redeem us and will liberate us.(I am talking here in strict Feyereband-ish philosophical way, not to bash Marxism) Buddhism(and all spiritual movements that has something to meditation to "realize the moment" which almost makes things pan-theistic or even non-theistic) focuses more inside one's own mind to achieve liberation. But I see strong parallels in both and that they are not necessarily in-compatible. The most obvious difference is that dialectical view is mostly a product of "modernity" and rationality, the enlightenment movement which mostly identifies with western approach to philosophy. Everything written down on paper, explaining things methodically to find solutions whereas these spiritual teachings deal more with "direct" contact to knowledge through one's inner enlightenment of what the world really is(hence the connection to esoterism).

I actually wanted to see some academic works on this but I did not really see much. I assume the non-dogmatic commies in the south&east Asia might have written some things on Buddhism&Marxism. What do you guys think about this? Or have you ever thought about this?

ps: to me, Marxism IS dialectics and materialism is to a large extend a thing to be taken for granted by the 21st century.

[Rad]

You're right. Buddhism is dialectical. But everything that is dialectical isn't relatde to marxism. There is a great deal of mystification in buddhism, whereas there is a great deal of materialism in marxism. Because dialectics can be used for both - idealism as well as materialism.

[Dodo]

Thats what I mean. Budhism is more spiritual, not necessarily "idealist" in its philosophy form but still spiritual and deals with the mind. Its cosmology however, looked to me so far, quiet materialist.
Its just that there are strong correlations which makes it a good area of study. There are many interesting things to be found. On top all, its worth keeping in mind that this is something that starts around 5-6th century BC.

[rena]

There are many interesting things about Buddhist belief that I think can add to our understanding of the world, even if it just makes us ask questions. Like, the idea of the impermanence of the self, that there is no real entity called 'I', there is merely a set of thoughts and experiences that we normally refer to as 'I'. This is the result of their mereological nihilism (not all Buddhists hold this view) that says objects with proper parts do not exist, instead everything is merely a part of the whole. There are no objects, just different instances of the whole. Thus the idea of the self is a mere illusion, indeed all of our perceptions are just mere illusions since our minds are hardwired to think in terms of concrete words instead of seeing everything in its constant state of flux.

By using words, we distort reality to conform to our logocentric ideas. Therefore, the only way we can see the world as it is, is to remove all attachment to things, since things are the mere illusions of reality created by our limited perception. But we must use words to describe the world since that is the only way that our brains can model our sensory input. So to live is to be trapped in a false perception.

This false perception is the cause of all suffering since it causes people to act in ways that further distort reality and conform to their own limited ideals. Only by realizing that everything is illusory, that there are not things, can people escape suffering.

My main critique, is that it denies that people should attempt to live a better life within this life. If the world is nothing but illusions, there is no incentive to change the world for the better. That is why Marxism is materialistic, since it relies on the assumption that the world outside our minds is real, that history is driven by people attempting to sustain themselves through production, and that struggles arise due to the division of labor and the private ownership of commodities and the means of production. None of these things is coherent without a clear, realist conception of the outside world.

[RyeN]

communism will -mostly- redeem us and will liberate us

Communism and liberation are rewarded after growth through pain. After receiving knowledge of (good/evil, this/that, light/dark, high/low) we have to start growing from the bottom through the dark to the light. Of course there is always a next plateau and like all things universal it is cyclical. Consciousness and life are evolving hand in hand with technology and our potential.