What would recreation be like under communism?

[flaming bolshevik]

What would recreation be like under communism? What would change?

[Illegalitarian]

Not much. Maybe speed chess will come back in vogue?

[Blake's Baby]

I think it would be utterly transformed. How could it not be?

[Illegalitarian]

I think it would be utterly transformed. How could it not be?

How? Basketball, football, camping etc would not change, i don't think

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

By the third year of higher-stage communism, recreation will consist exclusively of two semi-naked men hitting each other in the face with oars and screaming as our insect overlords applaud in the background. Well, click their mandibles in approval. We think.

Seriously, this is one of those questions where all we can say is "the future will be different from the present in some sense". What we can say with some certainty is that professional sports, much like professional everything, will be a thing of the past. It is also likely that identification with "your" team will be at an all-time low, and that sport will be more about having fun and putting on a good show than winning.

How this will manifest, I have no idea. I hope that in my sport, fencing, there will be less epee-snapping tantrums and more efforts to get the public interested in those poncey men poking each other wearing what are effectively suits of armour.

[human strike]

Just as communism abolishes work, it also abolishes recreation.

[Sinister Intents]

I'm sure people well be a lot freer to do whatever they please.

[Blake's Baby]

This my point. At the moment 'recreation' is something we squeeze into the space between leaving work on Friday and going back on Monday morning. That's not going to be how it works in a post-capitalist society.

Want to go to Guatemala, or Morroco, or Iceland? So, you can go. You won't get the sack for skipping work and the travel won't cost months of your wages.

Want to learn to play the piano? You won't have to pay for piano lessons, or a piano.

Want to go to the cinema or the theatre? Much easier, my guess is we'll have so much cultural/artistic output it'll be like living in the Edinburgh festival, everyday, everywhere, for ever. But even better. You'll be able to see a Samual Beckett play over breakfast, Swedish cinema by midmorning and arias over lunch followed by acrobats in the afternoon, Stravinky concertos at teatime and the world's greatest blues jam in the evening. All of this interspersed with people in masks jumping out of clocks and yelling pro-situ slogans about seizing our desires and living without dead time.

Want to go jogging or have a kick-about with your mates? That's probably not going to change much but I'll bet the public space will be nicer and it'll be easier to organise the time. The weather might not actually be any better though.

That's my guess.

[Sinister Intents]

Sounds very good and accurate! Hopefully, I feel like this cannot be discussed without sounding utopian. People will definitely be freer and most certainly be able to do as they please without economic servitude playing a role in their lives. The things the bourgeois tyrants get to enjoy will be able to be freely enjoyed by everyone.

Does discussing the potential future not seem utopian?

[Illegalitarian]

Nah, it reminds us of what we fight for.

[Sinister Intents]

Nah, it reminds us of what we fight for.

Defined goals! Also nothing inherently wrong with talking of utopia or an idealized society even without necessarily talking on how to get there

[Illegalitarian]

Someone once said "if you're already making plans for after the revolution, you're a reactionary". Probably some old craby heavily bearded theorist not in touch with what this is all about

[Sinister Intents]

Someone once said "if you're already making plans for after the revolution, you're a reactionary". Probably some old craby heavily bearded theorist not in touch with what this is all about

Sounds like Bakunin... perhaps. Let's theorize what people will do with all their spare time after transition

[Spatula City]

I like to think that recreation would become more communal, so instead of sitting at home with your headphones on, playing video games, watching TV or listening to MP3s, everyone would be in the park playing board games, at the cinema or attending a live concert. Maybe they would even exchange ideas and talk to each other instead of just googling everything, reading wikipedia or checking facebook/twitter.

I guess I'm mostly talking about entertainment here, though... I'm sure you could still go running and fishing and hiking and have recreational sex on your own and nobody would judge you for it.

[Blake's Baby]

We can't make plans, it's true; but we can sketch out possibilities. we have inklings of the future society will be like. It won't be racist and sexist and transphobic and ablist or any other divisive ideology; it won't be Stakhnovite, or religious, or based on 'defence of the socialist fatherland' or the cult of personality, it won't be militaristic or technocratic. We know that.

We also know that if we're still working 48-hour weeks doing stuff we hate things have gone wrong.

We know what free-access communism is; we'll be able to tell if we've got it. And if we haven't, we need to keep fighting until we have. But the point is, in a post-capitalist socieity, we'll have much more 'free time' as it's currently called, but would perhaps be better described as 'living' or some such term. Much more time to indulge in creativity. And if we haven't, then, as I say, we need to keep on fighting for it.

[Spatula City]

Seriously, this is one of those questions where all we can say is "the future will be different from the present in some sense". What we can say with some certainty is that professional sports, much like professional everything, will be a thing of the past. It is also likely that identification with "your" team will be at an all-time low, and that sport will be more about having fun and putting on a good show than winning.

I'm not sure why professional sports or professional anything would disappear.

Competition is an essential component of human psychology and a lot of great things have been accomplished because people kept trying to one-up each other and be the best.

On the contrary, I think that competition will thrive under communism... the difference being that it won't simply be a matter of whoever spends the most money wins.

[Blake's Baby]

How can you have 'professional' sport if there is no money?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I'm not sure why professional sports or professional anything would disappear.

'Cause you can't do something for a living without money.

[Spatula City]

'Cause you can't do something for a living without money.

Ah... okay.

[Spatula City]

How can you have 'professional' sport if there is no money?

I thought we were talking about people with a long history of dedication to a sport/craft/art who weren't necessarily being paid for it but who were publicly understood to be among the best in their field-- ie: a natural talent nurtured to its fullest and competing against others who are at a similar level.

But I guess that doesn't make a lot of sense.

[MonsterMan]

more art, literature and music, sport would still be popular - I remember the Soviet Union doing well at soccer and Olympics, for example

[Illegalitarian]

There would still likely be "professional" sports, but of course, there would be no money involved.

[MonsterMan]

benefits, bonuses of some kind could be used - what about Soviet stars at the Olympics, soccer etc.. what did they get? the drive to succeed was still there, just like how most sportsmen want to win even if there's no prize

[Red Star Rising]

'Cause you can't do something for a living without money.

Why not? Given that the vast majority of people aren't good enough to do sport professionally, I don't see why society can't just provide a moderate lifestyle for sport professionals in return for dedicating their working lives to the sport and taking part in tournaments and stuff for entertainment purposes. Given few people care about the absolutely obscene wages that sports professionals get now I doubt anyone would mind this system, and the professionals themselves would probably be okay wit it given that they are doing something that they are good at and enjoy and many people would kill to do.

[Blake's Baby]

'Professional' means 'for money'.

There is no money.

Therefore, there is no 'profession' of anything.

Not pole-vaulters nor comedians nor gas-fitters.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Why not? Given that the vast majority of people aren't good enough to do sport professionally, I don't see why society can't just provide a moderate lifestyle for sport professionals in return for dedicating their working lives to the sport and taking part in tournaments and stuff for entertainment purposes. Given few people care about the absolutely obscene wages that sports professionals get now I doubt anyone would mind this system, and the professionals themselves would probably be okay wit it given that they are doing something that they are good at and enjoy and many people would kill to do.

Of course the socialist society could provide a moderate lifestyle for people who play some kind of sport. It could provide an immoderate lifestyle to everyone, so people who play sports will not be distinguished in this regard.

Labour in socialism is something you do because you like it and you find it fulfilling, not because it pays the bills or because it gives you some sort of meal ticket.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

This my point. At the moment 'recreation' is something we squeeze into the space between leaving work on Friday and going back on Monday morning. That's not going to be how it works in a post-capitalist society.

Want to go to Guatemala, or Morroco, or Iceland? So, you can go. You won't get the sack for skipping work and the travel won't cost months of your wages.

Want to learn to play the piano? You won't have to pay for piano lessons, or a piano.

Want to go to the cinema or the theatre? Much easier, my guess is we'll have so much cultural/artistic output it'll be like living in the Edinburgh festival, everyday, everywhere, for ever. But even better. You'll be able to see a Samual Beckett play over breakfast, Swedish cinema by midmorning and arias over lunch followed by acrobats in the afternoon, Stravinky concertos at teatime and the world's greatest blues jam in the evening. All of this interspersed with people in masks jumping out of clocks and yelling pro-situ slogans about seizing our desires and living without dead time.

Want to go jogging or have a kick-about with your mates? That's probably not going to change much but I'll bet the public space will be nicer and it'll be easier to organise the time. The weather might not actually be any better though.

That's my guess.

Sounds quite nice. I also believe culture will explode after a successful world social revolution. You might have to wait a few months for that plane ticket or piano though if we are talking about a real communist society. In the earlier stages of the Revolution, a wealthy socialist economy which would inevitably retain market aspects such as for distribution, would probably provide something very similar to that egalitarianism we all dream of.

[consuming negativity]

recreation is bourgeois nonsense

in the glorious great supreme revolutionary proletarian people's soviet socialist democratic republican jamahiriya of earth commune, we will derive joy from reading das kapital, listening to the red army choir, and working long hours for the benefit of all

unfortunately, my crystal ball tell me that revleft will still be irrelevant, but i'm sure there will still be a few posters around to interact with

---

no, but seriously, why would we have fun differently? this seems like such a ridiculous question. what are all the shit you really wish you could do now but you don't have the money or time for? you'd probably be doing that shit. with high milkfat ice cream and free beer.

[motion denied]

you'd probably be doing that shit. with high milkfat ice cream and free beer.

ok, we need this socialism stuff as soon as possible

[Creative Destruction]

this probably doesn't all under "recreation" so much, but i imagine a bunch of awesome dinner clubs replacing restaurants; where amazing food won't be a "luxury" anymore, restricted to snobbish shitheads, and where people can actually enjoy the meal without adhering to ridiculous etiquette.

my wife and i have had two occasions in the last couple of years to eat at one of these bougie joints and the other people in the restaurant were insufferable as fuck. like telling blue jokes over a meal while you're seated mere inches from these pricks is going to ruin their lives or some shit.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

In my view, a true socialist society would prioritize fun as much as it would prioritize labor.

Play is a basic human need. Our species has engaged in games and sports since our earliest years on this planet. Plato once said that "Every man and woman should live life accordingly, and play the noblest games and be of another mind from what they are at present." Games would still be around, in their numerous forms (video games included). Sports would still be played, in small groups or in large crowds. Literature would still be of both escapist and serious mindsets. And authors and creators of popular works would still be acknowledged and celebrated for their talents.

But because money and living expenses would no longer be part of the equation, it means that artists and creators will be completely free to express themselves in their works without having to worry about financial repercussions. Even the simplest of arts, from furniture making to lighting, would become artistic statements as much as functional objects.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if erotic films would not only be still in existence, but become works of artist expression in and of themselves, instead of the crass and exploitative nature of the modern sex industry.

[Loony Le Fist]

this probably doesn't all under "recreation" so much, but i imagine a bunch of awesome dinner clubs replacing restaurants; where amazing food won't be a "luxury" anymore, restricted to snobbish shitheads, and where people can actually enjoy the meal without adhering to ridiculous etiquette.

Awesome! I can make some bomb ass food too! I would love to share that with everyone. No luxury. Good food, is just that. Good food.


In my view, a true socialist society would prioritize fun as much as it would prioritize labor.

Play is a basic human need. Our species has engaged in games and sports since our earliest years on this planet. Plato once said that "Every man and woman should live life accordingly, and play the noblest games and be of another mind from what they are at present." Games would still be around, in their numerous forms (video games included). Sports would still be played, in small groups or in large crowds. Literature would still be of both escapist and serious mindsets. And authors and creators of popular works would still be acknowledged and celebrated for their talents.

But because money and living expenses would no longer be part of the equation, it means that artists and creators will be completely free to express themselves in their works without having to worry about financial repercussions. Even the simplest of arts, from furniture making to lighting, would become artistic statements as much as functional objects.


Absolutely. Everyone could express themselves as art because the basics would be handled. We could be real people, instead of the fake shells most people are today.



Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if erotic films would not only be still in existence, but become works of artist expression in and of themselves, instead of the crass and exploitative nature of the modern sex industry.

Boom! A strong injection of feminism would break the exploitative nature of it. There is nothing wrong with sex and eroticism. It's just that under capitalism--it feels dirty cause of the exploitation.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Absolutely. Everyone could express themselves as art because the basics would be handled. We could be real people, instead of the fake shells most people are today.

I seriously think statements like this are, well, worrying. I'm not a big fan of "everything must be art" thinking in general (can't I play my dungeon crawl or describe how my Seer of the Throne mage acts or watch people fuck without it being art?), but calling people "fake shells"? Yeah. Doesn't sound good.

Also, this has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but it is a pet peeve of mine, Plato was a slave-owner conservative and his work is (1) arguably allegorical and ironic; (2) a blueprint for a garrison-state based on private property including slaves.