What is to be done?

[Chomskyan]

Hello. I've recently decided to create a Socialist youth organization in my local University. The problem is, I'm worried about what a fellow comrade told me, which is involving other people in the group, and how in the future it may hurt them.

Considering how negative Socialism is in the American lexicon, I'm worried about how to approach this.

Should I go through with creating the student organization? If I do, I fear it might lead to problems for some people who are a part of it in the future.

What should I do?

[Illegalitarian]

What is it you fear, exactly? I think that at a university of all places you should certainly get, for the most part, a more open-minded reception of such an organization. Just find a handful of people to help you and decide upon an agreed set of goals and principles, and it just might do well.

[BIXX]

Go through with it. If they consider themselves revolutionaries, and they won't join a club for their future, it seems perhaps they weren't very committed anyway. I don't know. My 2¢.

[Chomskyan]

What is it you fear, exactly? I think that at a university of all places you should certainly get, for the most part, a more open-minded reception of such an organization. Just find a handful of people to help you and decide upon an agreed set of goals and principles, and it just might do well.

Well, the person I mentioned talked about maybe running for political office in the future and what it would mean if someone who was a member of a Left organization ran for public office in the United States. It could destroy their lives if certain information came out about them being affiliated with a Left organization.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Use fake names?

[bricolage]

I don't think people should be martyrs for the sake of it, for example if getting arrested on some kind of demo is likely to fuck up your ability to get a job don't go out with that in mind. I also don't think that being in a political group at University is really likely to impact on anything that way but sure if someone thought it would then maybe they should re-think their membership.

But all that being said, if someone has the aim of being a career politician (something that is inherently political, duh) and is worried that it coming out that they were once in a socialist group would affect that then I've got no time for them. I have no real love for any politicians but that kind of person obviously has ideas of representing political ideas very far removed from anything approaching socialism.

So I'd say just set up the group. If the only problem is damaging political career paths then that's all the more reason to do it anyway.

[Sabot Cat]

I agree that the term 'socialism' is at the very least ambiguous. The 'Workers' Democracy Association' or 'Students for Workplace Democracy' or something along these lines would be more precise with the added bonus of less baggage.

Furthermore, it's not as though every prominent revolutionary, anti-capitalist organization called themselves "communist" or "socialist" forthright in the title, no matter the tendency, e.g. the International Workingmen's Association, the Industrial Workers of the World, the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party, the Independent Social Democratic Party of Germany, etc.

[Chomskyan]

I don't think people should be martyrs for the sake of it, for example if getting arrested on some kind of demo is likely to fuck up your ability to get a job don't go out with that in mind. I also don't think that being in a political group at University is really likely to impact on anything that way but sure if someone thought it would then maybe they should re-think their membership.

But all that being said, if someone has the aim of being a career politician (something that is inherently political, duh) and is worried that it coming out that they were once in a socialist group would affect that then I've got no time for them. I have no real love for any politicians but that kind of person obviously has ideas of representing political ideas very far removed from anything approaching socialism.

So I'd say just set up the group. If the only problem is damaging political career paths then that's all the more reason to do it anyway.

I said that to my Leftist comrade and he said that all we are going to have is a centre-right country, and so he advocated pushing through whatever progressive agenda possible using the Democratic Party. I of course mentioned that all social change has happened through revolution, but he advocated using the Democratic Party as a means of progressive change.

Anyway, I took his advice to heart. I don't want to get people who are not entirely committed to the cause involved.

I've forwarded this concern to others as well.

[BIXX]

Your friend is no socialist.

[Illegalitarian]

Your friend assumes the Democratic party is a party in the traditional sense, an organization made of people who share common values and goals coming together to see that these goals are achieved through political discourse, that they can make their value permeate throughout the rest of society for the civic good.

It is no such thing, it is a slightly more socially liberal wing of the bourgeois state than the GOP, on the most superficial level imaginable (seriously, when is the last time any democrat has ushered in any "liberal" change? Johnson? The Great Society Act and Civil Rights Act were both consequences of social unrest from below and would have likely taken place under a Republican leader all the same. )

[John Nada]

I said that to my Leftist comrade and he said that all we are going to have is a centre-right country, and so he advocated pushing through whatever progressive agenda possible using the Democratic Party. I of course mentioned that all social change has happened through revolution, but he advocated using the Democratic Party as a means of progressive change.

Anyway, I took his advice to heart. I don't want to get people who are not entirely committed to the cause involved.

I've forwarded this concern to others as well.The left has no home in the Democratic Party, regardless of what the CPUSA says. If you "comrade" wants to help rule a center-right country, then they'll rule as a center-right politician. And what's considered center-right keeps moving further right. Conservative politicians in the past like Nixon or even Reagan would be called socialist today by many idiots.

If they're leftist, they'll have to sell out. They won't go far as a Democrat otherwise. Shit they probably won't even get their name on the primary ballot. If they do, they won't become the dictator of the Democratic Party. They will be only one person in a large political machine. The modern Democratic party is dominated by the neo-liberal DLC, with the progressive wing marginalized and ignored.This started under Carter, accerated under Clinton, and looks like it's going to be this way for decades to come. There's no room for a new FDR.

I'd say fuck it, do whatever you want! If they're going to be in control of an imperialist country why should you give a fuck about them? Obama worked briefly with a guy formerly from the Weather Underground. It nether killed his career, nor did it move him leftward. If being near someone in a small leftist group scares them, how are they going to react to someone reactionary with power? How will they act if a revolutionary situation arises, if they're scare now?

[Chomskyan]

Your friend is no socialist.

He certainly claims that he is. He questioned my Socialism when I called Abraham Lincoln a war criminal. (He's from the South.)

I agree entirely with you John Brown, I actually mentioned that this is where I feel the country is headed. Which is why it's necessary to revive the US Left. Apparently, he doesn't see it the same way.

[Illegalitarian]

You need to post more JB, you are a good poster

[Tim Redd]

He certainly claims that he is. He questioned my Socialism when I called Abraham Lincoln a war criminal. (He's from the South.)

Anyone who calls Abraham Lincoln a war criminal is a right wing reactionary and highly likely to be a racist to boot. This thread is a troll. How could you possibly be wanting to start a left wing organization if you call Abraham Lincoln a war criminal?

[bricolage]

I would actually say that going back to the original point of setting up a group at University that it's probably much more productive to set up a group to do with student debt, or education workers' issues on campus, or any struggle that you might be able to have a tangible intervention in.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I would actually say that going back to the original point of setting up a group at University that it's probably much more productive to set up a group to do with student debt, or education workers' issues on campus, or any struggle that you might be able to have a tangible intervention in.
Just to build on this, it would be better to set up a student activist network of some sort and focus on building campaigns around debt/rent/low wages or whatever which will attract a broader milieu of people, including both radicals and reformist types. You can still argue the case for revolutionary socialism within this network but it wouldn't stop you from actually organising some positive actions where you can.

[trickster]

I think you should go ahead and start the club.... People who are willing to put their future at risk for the cause can make that decision for themselves. Also, nothing will change without a bit of risk. If you allow fear to control you or to prevent you from striving for progress, there will never be any progress.

I would think it would be relatively easy to keep group membership anonymous... the comrade you've been talking too doesn't sound like he would be a good fit for the club, but that is only one leftist among many. Every leftist needs to find their own way of doing things. If this comrade wants to one day run for office and achieve change through the Democratic Party, that's fine (sorta... I do agree with the other comments here that the Democratics are just as corrupt as the other major parties). But others do prefer more direct action and probably wouldn't mind being part of such a club.

It might be difficult to get a club going, and to maintain it, but I think you should totally go for it.

I'm also curious as to why you think Abraham Lincoln was a war criminal lol?