social protests in Donbass (rebel held ukraine) getting violently repressed

[Sasha]

Social protest and repression in Donbass


http://libcom.org/files/imagecache/article/images/news/antratsit.jpg (http://libcom.org/files/images/news/antratsit.jpg)


News about social protests is coming out of Donbass, the region controlled by separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.



The protesters in eastern Ukraine have faced violent repression and threats from the separatist governments whose policies they are challenging.
On 4 October, local people in Sverdlovsk (in Luhansk region, in separatist-controlled territory) protested (http://informator.lg.ua/?p=36668)at the headquarters of the security service of Ukraine (SBU) about the shortage of wage payments and of food, the collapse of the banking system, and against plunder and robberies by the paramilitaries. That night, protesters’ houses were attacked with hand grenades.
On 5 October, the protesters went out again (http://informator.lg.ua/?p=36796), demanding the payment of wages and the restoration of the city infrastructure. Armed men shot at the demonstrators. Three people went to hospital with gunshot wounds.
These events were reported on informator.lg.ua, a site set up in May by journalists from Luhansk, who left the region after some of their colleagues were kidnapped and tortured. The site reports news received from the occupied area, as “an answer to the pro-Russian extremists’ attempts to silence independent media and journalists”. (Details here in Russian (http://informator.lg.ua/?page_id=1628).)
Meanwhile, the government of the “Donetsk People’s Republic” has adopted a new taxation system, which – just as in Russia itself – is anti-social. For example, the income tax and the tax on enterprises in the republic will not be progressive: the tax rate will be fixed (regardless of the level of income) at 13%, and the enterprise tax fixed at 20%, the semi-official Russian news agency Itar-Tass reported (http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1484693). The bourgeoisie has been exempted from the payment of tax debts for recent months. In the “Luhansk People’s Republic”, the adoption of the same system is scheduled for 15 October.
On 22 September, the people of Antratsit (Luhansk region) went out to the city central square, to protest in front of the City Executive Committee building, according to a report in Novyi Region newspaper (http://nr2.com.ua/hots/Vojna_na_Donbasse/Kazaki-uchastnikam-denezhnogo-bunta-na-Luganshchine-eshche-raz-soberetes-rasstrelyaem-nahren-80602.html). This “revolt for cash” demanded wages, pensions and welfare benefits, which were promised. but which people did not receive for a couple of months.
The local separatist military commanders reacted with direct threats against the protesters. saying: “If you demonstrate here again, we will shoot you all. Forget what a miner’s wage is, and what a pension is, not to mention welfare benefits”. Nevertheless, some aid – namely, a can of meat and a package of cereal for each person – was immediately distributed.
Before the demonstration, the Komsomolskaya mine at Antratsit was shut down. The government of the self-proclaimed “Lugansk People’s Republi”c announced that the miners will from now on receive a wage of 1200 hryna (around $100) – far less than they had earned previously. In protest, the miners all absented themselves from work the next day.
On 27 September, around 200 citizens went out to protest (http://news.liga.net/print/news/politics/3467043-v_rovenkakh_mestnye_zhiteli_vzbuntovalis_protiv_ln r.htm)in Rovenky (Luhansk region). The majority of the protesters were the retired people, but there were also young people in the crowd, the Liga.net news site reported. There was indignation that the “Lugansk People’s Republic” government does not keep its promises to pay pensions and wages.
The demonstrators accused the government of plundering humanitarian aid, so it does not reach the people, including old people living on their own who are starving and have no-one to help them. There is neither running water nor heating in the town.
The protesters, who do not receive the payments they are entitled to from the new local authorities, collected signatures on a petition to the Ukrainian government in Kyiv, demanding that it pays them.


These reports were published last week on the Russian web site (http://www.aitrus.info/node/3960) of the anarchist International Workers Association, and in English on the Ukraine Activist Perspective facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/aftermaidan). Thanks to both. The links in the story are to the local newspapers and web sites that first reported the information. GL,


source: http://libcom.org/news/social-protest-repression-donbass-19102014

[Bala Perdida]

That's a shame. So is Ukraine 'stabilized', and just the separatist regions are having trouble? I haven't heard of incidents, such as protests, in Kiev and other Ukraine controlled cities in a while.

[Martin Luther]

These events were reported on informator.lg.ua, a site set up in May by journalists from Luhansk, who left the region after some of their colleagues were kidnapped and tortured. The site reports news received from the occupied area, as “an answer to the pro-Russian extremists’ attempts to silence independent media and journalists”.

Sure...looks legit...and for good measure everything to do with rebel institutions is in scare quotes.

[Hrafn]

I see there's already filthy pro-Putin shillin' going on here. Great.

[renalenin]

I see there's already filthy pro-Putin shillin' going on here. Great.

So anybody who broadly supports the Peoples' Republics of Luhansk and Donetsk is a "filthy pro-Putin" supporter eh. Nice one.

Do you feel the same way about the people who oppose the US-sponsored protests in Caracas as well? Such struggles as the one in Free Ukraine will always be unpleasant but it is a big mistake to argue that those who want to see a victory for the Marxist-Leninist forces are thus supporters of Putin and the oligarchs.

:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

[adipocere]

I see there's already filthy pro-Putin shillin' going on here. Great.

The ultra-right neocons who comment on anti-Russian articles on the Guardian website say the same sorts of things. Of course I wrote you off as one of them awhile back anyway, so whatthefuckever, carry on with your discussion bludgeoning. Mostly crickets here anyway.

And Sasha, I don't know, you're just so predictable.

[Sasha]

And Sasha, I don't know, you're just so predictable.

i'll be posting articles as in the OP as long as there are people writing these kind of insanities;


those who want to see a victory for the Marxist-Leninist forces

[Tim Cornelis]

The Stalinoid social chauvinists are tireless in their defence of their far-right comrades. Ultranationalists from Europe have joined the pro-Russian separates, New Russian forces, to fight 'Western decadence'. Again and again we have exposed their far-right and ultranationalist nature, but their wishful thinking impairs reason (which is incidentally very similar to anarchist wishful thinking in regards to Kurdish 'democratic autonomy').

New Russia is headed by the far-right New Russia Party, and it flies the Czarist Romanov flag! These 'Marxist-Leninist forces' are oddly similar to the Whites. Yet Stalinoid social chauvinists keep deluding themselves into thinking that they represent some leftist or progressive, even Marxist-Leninist cause. Unbelievable.

And of course, adicpore writes off Hafrn as 'ultra-right neocon' for opposing the ultranationalists in Donbass. What an absolute and utter joke. Absolutely infuriating in fact, how detached these social chauvinists (not even worthy of the name Stalinist) are from reality.

Marxist-Leninist forces in Russia:

http://img.rt.com/files/news/2a/44/40/00/russia-flag-emperor-nationalist.si.jpg

[RedWorker]

So anybody who broadly supports the Peoples' Republics of Luhansk and Donetsk is a "filthy pro-Putin" supporter eh. Nice one.

Do you feel the same way about the people who oppose the US-sponsored protests in Caracas as well? Such struggles as the one in Free Ukraine will always be unpleasant but it is a big mistake to argue that those who want to see a victory for the Marxist-Leninist forces are thus supporters of Putin and the oligarchs.

:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

Is this meant to be a joke? "Marxist-Leninist forces"? It'd be bad enough if they stuck to Stalinism ("Marxism-Leninism"), but they're even worse than that. In fact, they're just some ultranationalist assholes who are in with Putin with "THE EAST IS LEFT THE WEST IS RIGHT SUPPORT THE EAST - IF THE WEST IS MORE PROGRESSIVE THEY ARE DECADENT". Basically the world geopolitical battle which has been fought for long now has expressions in multiple forms and this would only fool an idiot. Of course, Putin has alliances with other pseudo-leftists, populists, charismatic leaders, quasi-authoritarians etc. in the non-first-world. To anybody who has a brain, there is nothing surprising with this.

And you realize protests necessarily involve the masses and these in Caracas have such a base in real problems (and portions of the masses) even if the protesters vote for the wrong parties, right? If Venezuela is a paradise, why don't you go there? That's coming from a person interested in Bolivarian Revolution, but never mind logic when talking with people like you.

[Per Levy]

Such struggles as the one in Free Ukraine will always be unpleasant

may i ask, what exactly is free about the so called "people's republics" in east ukraine?


but it is a big mistake to argue that those who want to see a victory for the Marxist-Leninist forces are thus supporters of Putin and the oligarchs.

other have allready point it out but lets say it again, the leadership of these "people's republics" are ultra nationalist far rightists who put tsarist symbols everywhere they can. not to mention the nazbols who are also there. so yes, "those who want to see a victory for the Marxist-Leninist forces are thus supporters of Putin and the oligarchs" is exactly true. there arnt marist-leninist forces there, besides social-conservatives who call themselfs communists and go hand in hand with nazbols and other right-wingers.

[John Nada]

(Berlin) – Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes.

During a week-long investigation in eastern Ukraine, Human Rights Watch documented widespread use of cluster munitions in fighting between government forces and pro-Russian rebels in more than a dozen urban and rural locations. While it was not possible to conclusively determine responsibility for many of the attacks, the evidence points to Ukrainian government forces’ responsibility for several cluster munition attacks on Donetsk. An employee of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) was killed on October 2 in an attack on Donetsk that included use of cluster munition rockets.Source: http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions

The humanitarian aid mentioned in the OP's article, and those white trucks that delivered said aid(that the media claimed was an invasion) came from the CPRF: http://www.solidnet.org/russia-communist-party-of-the-russian-federation/cp-of-the-russian-federation-cprf-humanitarian-aid-en-ru

[Tim Cornelis]

I'm not sure why you think that it's relevant to the topic. No one is defending Ukraine/Kiev.

[John Nada]

I'm not sure why you think that it's relevant to the topic.It was on the page of one of the links. I doubt the shortages and overall shitty conditions aren't related to the war. Dropping cluster bombs is pretty violent repression of the opposition. And I posted a link about who was trying to help those people who protested, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, but it seems it either it's not enough or it's being hoarded by the rebels.
No one is defending Ukraine/Kiev.Good.

[Hrafn]

Usually, when I get hyperbolic I like to sarcastically call things I don't like or support the Great Satan of X, in reference to a catchphrase of the Ayatollah's. In Ukraine, however, there is no Great Satan and Little Satan - both sides are, more or less, equally vile and reactionary.

[Martin Luther]

No one would be stretching the truth to say that those who cite openly pro-Ukrainian partisan sources such as the OP are shilling for Ukraine and the west. As for the use of Russian nationalist symbols, the use of Soviet symbols is equally if not more prevalent. The legislature of the Donetsk People's Republic is called the Supreme Soviet and its leader is a member of the Ukrainian Communist Party. For every "Romanov" flag there are Soviet and Ukrainian SSR flags. Suffice it to say the Ukrainian rebels have no defined political character in terms of the left vs the right wing of capital. The only cause that holds them together is the defense of Easterners against the government. The Kiev government and its supporters are a completely different story, but in both cases the left has pretended otherwise.

But to put this in context, because it falls in love with anything 'in motion', the western left's first reactions to the conflict were to romanticize the Maidan putsch and fall in line with our ruling class' narrative of evil Russians. Russian support of the rebels was immediately compared to 1848, 1956, 1968, and so on. Of course, many have backpedaled to take a 'neutral' stance on the conflict as it unfolded, but the basic narratives remain: protests in Maidan in Kiev were due to social conditions and are fundamentally legitimate. Protest and armed rebellion in Donbas is because of Russian chauvinism and their war is bullshit. Putin is responsible. This mirrors the leftist delusions about the rebels of Syria and Libya that led the left right into the arms of the war camp in support of so called armed revolutions against independent Arab states. For the past half decade the left has never failed to show its loyalty to the "progressive" west and its proxies against others. Anyone who opposes this is just shilling for dictators.

In fact, this unity against Gaddafi, against Syria, against Russia, etc. across the spectrum of the European left from anarchists to liberals is nothing less than the new postmodern Burgfriedenspolitik. If you doubt it exists, ask Borotba, whose activists were beaten by fascists and anarchists at Maidan.

I really hope I never have to witness the shitstorm that will ensue when an overtly leftist government like Venezuela or Cuba becomes the target of a proxy war, because all the hints that much of the left will choose the side of imperialism are already there. In 2011 at my university, the anti-imperialists and the pro-rebels almost came to blows at more than one antiwar gathering.

[Sasha]

Maybe if your dear "anti-imperialist" leaders spended a bit more time on being actually popular progressives and less bein corrupt, clinging to personal power at all costs and torturing unionists and such they wouldn't be at risk of gettin ousted when popular support collapses.

[Tim Cornelis]

No one would be stretching the truth to say that those who cite openly pro-Ukrainian partisan sources such as the OP are shilling for Ukraine and the west.

Shilling presupposes that the person in question replicates a false narrative. Whether this is interpreted as such depends on what narrative you subscribe to. But you need to bring more to the table than pointing out the origins of sources.


As for the use of Russian nationalist symbols, the use of Soviet symbols is equally if not more prevalent.

That seems an outlandish claim to me. What I've seen is more of a 'historical' use of the hammer and sickle, whereas the Romanov flag is the official national flag of New Russia. The other, former official and now battle flag, was the Imperial Russian Navy flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Russian_Navy). So the two official flags of New Russia are both imperial, nationalist symbols. This makes it really difficult to believe that 'soviet symbols' (which are by no means synonymous with socialist symbols in Russia as they have been appropriated by chauvinists) are equally or more prevalently used.


The legislature of the Donetsk People's Republic is called the Supreme Soviet and its leader is a member of the Ukrainian Communist Party.

Soviet symbols and such have been appropriated by Russian nationalists since the USSR was 'Russia as superpower'. It isn't in and of itself indicative of any socialist support.

Transnistria has a hammer and sickle on its flag and national symbol, its parliament is called the supreme soviet as well, yet it has no socialist content. Its economy is dominated by one private corporation.

The Communist Party of Ukraine is also notorious for its racism and homophobia. Boris Litvinov is the speaker of the supreme council and chairman of the communist party of donetsk, yes, but how much power is that, and how much credentials as communist does he have given the track record of post-Soviet 'communists' in Russia and Ukraine?

Moreover, the communist party of donetsk has been barred from participating in the Donbass elections, supposedly for administration errors.


For every "Romanov" flag there are Soviet and Ukrainian SSR flags.

Some evidence or reasonable arguments for this please.


Suffice it to say the Ukrainian rebels have no defined political character in terms of the left vs the right wing of capital. The only cause that holds them together is the defense of Easterners against the government. The Kiev government and its supporters are a completely different story, but in both cases the left has pretended otherwise.

The leadership of New Russia overwhelmingly is made up of Russian ultra-nationalists.


But to put this in context, because it falls in love with anything 'in motion', the western left's first reactions to the conflict were to romanticize the Maidan putsch and fall in line with our ruling class' narrative of evil Russians. Russian support of the rebels was immediately compared to 1848, 1956, 1968, and so on. Of course, many have backpedaled to take a 'neutral' stance on the conflict as it unfolded, but the basic narratives remain: protests in Maidan in Kiev were due to social conditions and are fundamentally legitimate. Protest and armed rebellion in Donbas is because of Russian chauvinism and their war is bullshit. Putin is responsible. This mirrors the leftist delusions about the rebels of Syria and Libya that led the left right into the arms of the war camp in support of so called armed revolutions against independent Arab states. For the past half decade the left has never failed to show its loyalty to the "progressive" west and its proxies against others. Anyone who opposes this is just shilling for dictators.

In fact, this unity against Gaddafi, against Syria, against Russia, etc. across the spectrum of the European left from anarchists to liberals is nothing less than the new postmodern Burgfriedenspolitik. If you doubt it exists, ask Borotba, whose activists were beaten by fascists and anarchists at Maidan.

I really hope I never have to witness the shitstorm that will ensue when an overtly leftist government like Venezuela or Cuba becomes the target of a proxy war, because all the hints that much of the left will choose the side of imperialism are already there. In 2011 at my university, the anti-imperialists and the pro-rebels almost came to blows at more than one antiwar gathering.

There's some tendency of the far-left to support things 'in motion' without any critical insight, yes, but I think you're overstating it. I also think you're creating a false dichotomy.

It's a good thing that 'pro-rebels' 'came to blows at more than one antiwar gathering', they support far-right ultranationalists. It's also a good thing that the far-left is against Syria, against Russia, against Gaddafi. You imply as if that's a bad thing. Communism is opposed to bourgeois dictators and imperialist countries, it doesn't mean favouring western imperialism over dictators, nor dictators over western imperialism.

And who cares about Borotba? Fascist collaborating social-democrats.

[Hrafn]

One of the ideological co-founders of Novorossiay is Aleksandr Dugin. I.e. this guy (http://nazbol.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Nazbol2.png). Don't take the chauvinistic use of old-school symbols to be something positive.

[Slavic]

One of the ideological co-founders of Novorossiay is Aleksandr Dugin. I.e. this guy (http://nazbol.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Nazbol2.png). Don't take the chauvinistic use of old-school symbols to be something positive.


Lol the "Fourth Political Theory". Fascists never cease to amazing me with how they portray themselves as anything but a genuine fascist.

[renalenin]

NATO and the west are still telling filthy lies about Putin sending tanks to East Ukraine. Photos show tanks captured from forces of fascist Kiev being renovated in a giant factory in Donetsk. The Donbass is the industrial heart of the territory and this looks good to those of us who support the defeat of the Kiev fascists. Comrades should give full support to the Peoples' Republics of Luhansk and Donetsk and we should especially support their elections and their efforts to build socialism. We ought to remember that even though there were dubious elements in the Spanish Civil War (like POUM) the communists and the International Brigades did sterling service there. The situation in Ukraine is similar and we ought to keep our support strong for Borotba and the other good comrades fighting against the pro-NATO fascists.

:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

[Sasha]

We ought to remember that even though there were dubious elements in the Spanish Civil War (like POUM) the communists and the International Brigades did sterling service there.


oh wow, you must be a elaborate parody right? :ohmy:

[Tim Cornelis]

Reallenin: you are an utter moron. I don't even know where to begin, I can hardly even contain my anger at your infuriating stupidity. Tankie filth.

I hope that that you're just some 13 year old naive kid, or else there is no justification for your persistent stupidity.

>fascist Kiev
Tell me, how do you reconcile this with the fact that in the presidential elections Svoboda and Right Sector won about 4% of the popular vote jointly, and about 6% in the parliamentary elections, jointly.

>dubious elements in the Spanish Civil War (like POUM)
There were dubious elements in the Spanish Civil War: the nationalists, the falangists, the Franco. The answer is fight them, not join them you utter moron.

>comrades should support New Russia in building socialism
No one is building socialism, you utter fucking idiot. Even Borotba, which is uninvolved in the power structures of New Russia, has called for private enterprise to dominate the economy. The fascist New Russia regime has retracted its aim to nationalise key industries, and now only threatens to nationalise selectively. Nationalising also isn't socialism: please, read a little bit of Marxist literature you idiot.

Stop supporting far-right National-Bolsheviks and neo-fascists you social chauvinist dimwit

if not, maybe fuck off to stormfront and join their call to support New Russia's war against Zionism and Western decadence

or maybe join the rebels and catch some lead

[Per Levy]

Comrades should give full support to the Peoples' Republics of Luhansk and Donetsk and we should especially support their elections and their efforts to build socialism.

no socialism is being build in the "people's republics", if you are so easaly duped by words(people republic) and symbols(soviet symbols) one might think that you'd be somewhat weirded out by all the tsarist symbols and other russian nationalist symbols everywhere in those republics(and yes soviet symbols are part of these russian nationalist symbols).


We ought to remember that even though there were dubious elements in the Spanish Civil War (like POUM) the communists and the International Brigades did sterling service there.

obviously another topic you know nothing about, besides the ukraine conflict, is the spanish civil war.


The situation in Ukraine is similar and we ought to keep our support strong for Borotba and the other good comrades fighting against the pro-NATO fascists.

so they fight pro-nato fascists by going hand in hand with anti-nato fascists? not to mention that these anti-nato fascists are the leading forces in the "people's republics". well your comrades makeing quite the interesting compromise. so when will renalenin join up with their nearist anti-nato fascist?

in a more serious manner though, i hope for renalenins sake they are just a troll and not actually beliving the bs they wrote here.

[bricolage]

regarding soviet and tsarist symbolism I was under the impression that nationalists were pretty much down with both of them these days. the idea being that they could trace a line from the romanovs through stalin to putin as all represent a strong and powerful 'russia'. so in that case I don't really think any hammer and sickles serve as any sort of counter-argument against tsarist flags.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

regarding soviet and tsarist symbolism I was under the impression that nationalists were pretty much down with both of them these days. the idea being that they could trace a line from the romanovs through stalin to putin as all represent a strong and powerful 'russia'. so in that case I don't really think any hammer and sickles serve as any sort of counter-argument against tsarist flags.

Yeah really, I think people don't have a very sophisticated way of reading how people draw meaning from symbols. A hammer and a sickle can mean two very different things to two different communities, based on a whole host of social, historical and political factors

[Sasha]

Mwah, sadly in my experience 99% of the people who use the hammer and sickle these days elsewhere, be it in the west, Asia or the internet do so in pretty much the same social-chauvinist ways as those in eastern europe.

[PhoenixAsh]

National Bolshevists use the hammer and sickle as well...

[renalenin]

Sorry to see that some folks did not like what I had to say about the fascist Kiev regime and brave efforts to fight it. Here is something else to ponder on the topic of civil wars and support for fascism.

"Hot winter in Europe. The war is imminent. Hundreds of cossacks arrived in Donbass and joined the Novorossiya Army (NAF). Reporting that the cossacks crushed the forces of the oligarch Poroshenko in Debaltsevo. The cossacks caused the panic among the young radicals and supporters of maidan that are enroled in the pro-Junta battalions. A big scale offensive to be launched by the regime of Kiev is expected. The basic problem of Poroshenko is that he has an army formed by neo-nazis, asocials and young radicals that never have worked in their lives. Not really used to suffer and live in difficult conditions. Novorossiya Army has at least 30.000 well-trained fighters, many of them are miners and people with military experience since many of them served in the Ukrainian army or in the police. New recruitments are arriving all the days from all Ukraine and from foreign countries like Spain, France, Serbia, Italy, Colombia or Brasil. The forces of Novorrosiya have the spirit of the victory in their side. The war is imminent. USA already took the decision and his puppet Poroshenko will launch the offensive against the Donbass probably this week. This will be an excuse that USA and the EU satellites will use to impose new sanctions against Russia. I think we will have a hot winter in Europe. Picture: hundreds of Cossacks are enroled in the forces of Novorossiya. ‪#‎antimaidan‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/antimaidan?source=feed_text&story_id=857790414266030) ‪#‎savedonbasspeople‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/savedonbasspeople?source=feed_text&story_id=857790414266030) ‪#‎poroshenko‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/poroshenko?source=feed_text&story_id=857790414266030) ‪#‎maidan‬" (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/maidan?source=feed_text&story_id=857790414266030)

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-1/c19.0.74.74/p74x74/1796455_721264567918616_432614728_n.png?oh=81354a7 73afddae1cdfaee0a4e4ae16a&oe=54E5D080&__gda__=1423159361_6ce918502a7d2a16ca84dc5ca5d5e6c e (https://www.facebook.com/pages/US-EU-and-IMF-get-OUT-of-Ukraine/721263567918716?hc_location=timeline)US, EU and IMF get OUT of Ukraine (https://www.facebook.com/pages/US-EU-and-IMF-get-OUT-of-Ukraine/721263567918716)

[Sasha]

Lol, because those who these days identify as cossacks are really those who someone should pride themselves to have on their side, Serbian and chechen fascist war criminals the lot of them. Also, lok "miners" being code for Russian goons for hire.
"The usefull idiot is strong in this one"

[John Nada]

Lol, because those who these days identify as cossacks are really those who someone should pride themselves to have on their side, Serbian and chechen fascist war criminals the lot of them. Also, lok "miners" being code for Russian goons for hire.
"The usefull idiot is strong in this one"

Aren't Cossacks an ethnicity? And I doubt the miners are getting paid, it seems as though things are going to shit there:
NOVOSVITLIVKA, Ukraine — On one of the last warm days of autumn, Father Vladimir shed his priest’s robes and scaled a rickety wooden ladder to replace the shattered windows on the once-golden cupola of his village church.

From there he could hear a cacophony of hammering, scraping of shovels and the clattering of rubble against tin — the sounds of a village trying to pull itself back together.

For more than two months after a week of heated combat between Ukraine’s army and rebel separatists, Novosvitlivka residents have lived without light, gas, water and now, with cold weather settling in, heat.

The village is one of the worst damaged in a constellation of towns and cities throughout separatist-held Ukraine that have begun, haltingly, the process of rebuilding since the signing of a cease-fire on Sept. 5.

Even bigger cities like nearby Luhansk still have not fully restored basic services. There is little money available for major projects and almost no help or direction from the authorities — neither from those in Kiev nor from the rebels who have held sway here since the spring and want to establish their rule over the region.
It is not clear where the regions will get the money to rebuild. In the absence of a basic agreement on the degree of autonomy the eastern governments will exercise, Kiev has cut off pension payments and is withholding funds for reconstruction. Russia has shown little interest in underwriting the area, since it remains a part of Ukraine.
For many, like Nina Svetlova, a hospital worker, both sides seem to be losing in the battle for hearts and minds. She recounted how pro-Ukrainian paramilitaries terrorized the town for several days in late August. She calls them “Naziki,” or little Nazis, and blames Kiev for what she said was a drunken orgy of violence in the town.

But when it comes to the Luhansk People’s Republic, which now controls the town, she is just as critical.

“We need good leaders,” Ms. Svetlova said. “When there is no control, you see what gets done? Nothing gets done.” The closest the village has to authority are two young separatist fighters in camouflage with automatic rifles standing at a checkpoint. Ms. Svetlova has known them since grade school. “They were never the brightest ones,” she sniffed.
“We have many young, patriotic men,” Mr. Lungul, a former trucker, said with pride. “What we don’t have is experience. Nobody visits us. No one is in charge.”

“No, no,” his wife interjected. “They are trying.”

While propaganda and arms from Russia played an important part in the separatist movement here, poverty and criminality in many cities also swelled the separatist ranks.
“They did not see what was happening here,” said Mr. Pesotsky, who is also a science-fiction author. (In one of his books, “The Disunited States,” he predicts that America will dissolve by the year 2027.) “It was the poverty, this was brewing for a long time. Now it will be like Somalia. There will be 20 Ukraines.”
But even where governance is effective, there remains the question of where to find the money.

Mr. Zakharchenko, the prime minister, has said Russia is helping to repair Donetsk’s infrastructure, but he has been vague on the specifics.

Mr. Dubrovsky, the utilities minister, said there were rumors that Russia would send electric cable, but none had arrived yet.Sorce:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/world/europe/ukrainians-in-the-battered-east-scramble-in-darkness-as-winter-nears.html?ref=europe

It doesn't sound like anyone really has much control, and many have a similiar view to many in this thread. And it I don't think Porochenko gives a fuck about people he claims are still part of his country. In fact, here's what he's planning on doing to help the poor pensioners in the east:
DONETSK, Ukraine — Ukraine’s prime minister said Wednesday that the government would freeze payments it had been sending to parts of eastern Ukraine even after the areas had fallen under the control of pro-Russian separatists.

The move threatens to worsen already dire conditions in the east while thrusting the economic burden of governing on the rebel leaders and on Russia, itself teetering on the edge of recession.

Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk, the prime minister, said payments totaling $2.6 billion, mostly for public sector wages and pensions, would be withheld from separatist-controlled areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Provinces. Formally shoving that obligation onto the separatist leadership has been the most significant response to date to rogue elections held over the weekend here, which President Petro O. Poroshenko called a “farce” that violated a peace agreement.

“So long as the territories are controlled by those who appointed themselves, the government will not provide subsidies,” Mr. Yatsenyuk saidSource: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/06/world/europe/ukraine-to-freeze-payments-in-separatist-areas.html?ref=europe At the same time Kiev is gearing up to launch an offensive. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/04/ukraine-reinforcements-cities-rebel-attacks

[renalenin]

While we are on the subject let us remember that if it were not for Cossacks there would have been no storming of the Winter Palace and no Great October Revolution. Have a good day Comrades.

:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

[Sasha]

Your not my comrade and im not yours.

[Sasha]

Aren't Cossacks an ethnicity?

I obviously meant Cossack in the paramilitary unit sense, not as an ethnicity, many cossack outfits accept non ethnic cossacks in their ranks these days.

[L.A.P.]

While we are on the subject let us remember that if it were not for Cossacks there would have been no storming of the Winter Palace and no Great October Revolution. Have a good day Comrades.

:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:



I've never heard of the Cossacks' role in the Revolution being any other than hostile to the point of forming the core of the Anti-Bolshevik movement



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decossackization

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

A group of Cossacks refused orders to fire on demonstrators during the February revolution but plenty of other groups were hostile towards the revolutionary movement so its dumb to act like they were all in on it

[renalenin]

Yes of course the Cossacks were not part of the actual taking of the Palace. But a few days before, their delegates met with the Bolshevik representatives at the Smolny Institute and they agreed to step aside from supporting the Provisional Government and to do nothing to obstruct the events. This decision to support the revolution was effectively the death knell of the Provisional Government. And whether any of you like it or not I do want to be your Comrade. We must overthrow capitalism. Another world is necessary.

:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

[PhoenixAsh]

So your entire argument about the Cossacks is based on that one single event rather than everything that happened before and after?

The fact that by and large the Cossacks joined forces with the White armies and joined the Nazi's...is simply irrelevant?

The fact that their entire cultural tradition is reactionary, deeply sexist and religious in nature...not really relevant either?

[Per Levy]

And whether any of you like it or not I do want to be your Comrade.

i doubt anyone counts someone who sympathysis and defends fascists as a comrade of theirs on here. and i find it quite interesting that you have nothing to say to the overwhelming evidence of fascits, nazbols and other extreme rightists who are the leading forces in these "people's republics" you so adore. what do you have to say about that?


We must overthrow capitalism. Another world is necessary.

neither will capitalism be overthrown by fascists nor want the ruling people build anything like socialism(however distorted) in these republics. capitalims can only be overthrown by the working class and the working class is not in power in these people's republics.

[Tim Cornelis]

Sorry to see that some folks did not like what I had to say about the fascist Kiev regime and brave efforts to fight it. Here is something else to ponder on the topic of civil wars and support for fascism

Your stupidity is so unreal. I asked you to substantiate the claim of a 'fascist Kiev' in light of parliamentary elections where the far-right has won jointly less than 7% of the popular vote. Of course you can't because it's a nonsense claim. But for some reason, it must me a mental blockage or defect, you continue to prattle on about it for no good reason.

The 'brave efforts' to fight it consist of far-right groups, including the newly formed 'Black Hundreds'.

"the most important Russian group now active in Ukraine is the Black Hundreds. This movement sees itself as the reincarnation of the notorious anti-Semitic organization that flourished in Russia more than a century ago. Their program consists of the restoration of the Russian Empire in its pre-1917 borders (including Ukraine); establishing Russia as a mono-ethnic state and renewing the unity between the state and the Russian Orthodox church, as in Tsarist times; and protecting Russia against “those who hate Christ.” Their literature openly attacks “zhids.”"

http://forward.com/articles/196864/the-real-truth-about-those-anti-semitic-flyers-in/?p=all

"The Black Hundreds leader, Anton Raevskii, attempted to create a subversive group in Odessa while taking part in Ukrainian separatist rallies back in March. This led to him being banished from Ukraine later that month.

Raevskii has denied being a neo-Nazi, claiming his organisation promotes "monarchy, empire and Eastern Orthodox Church", but photographs show he has Nazi-themed tattoos: including a large tattoo of Hitler on one his arm.

The organisation shares its name with pro-Czarist, ultranationalistic and anti-Semitic political groups from pre-Stalinist Russia.

Raevskii promotes The Black Hundreds through a YouTube channel."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-who-are-russian-neo-nazi-groups-fighting-separatists-1463489

http://www.stopfake.org/content/uploads/2014/03/anton5.png
http://www.stopfake.org/content/uploads/2014/03/anton7.png

Now why would this fella be attracted to the Novorossiya regime?

Well perhaps because they share a similar goal:

The former Prime Minister, and now Deputy Prime Minister:

"The borders of the Russian World extend significantly farther than borders of Russian Federation. I fulfill a historic mission in the name of Russian nation, super-ethnos, unified by the Orthodox christianity. Just as in Caucasus, I'm fighting in Ukraine against separatism – this time not Chechen, but Ukrainian one. Because there is Russia, Great Russia, Russian Empire. And now Ukrainian separatists in Kiev are fighting against Russian Empire.”
Borodai worked for the far-right journal 'Zavtra', together with 'Prokhanov'2, an anti-semitic national-Stalinist. "

RenaLenin, you utter moron, you objectively support a regime dominated by fascists in the name of fighting fascism!

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

There were a handful of Cossacks who supported the Bolsheviks. There are also a hell of a lot of Cossacks who embraced the fact that to be a Cossack meant that one was a shock troop for the Monarchists. Some of them formed the largest of the White Russian armies. Being a Cossack is the luck of fate, but the historical roots of the Cossacks as a group is a reactionary one. They were the ones who restored Slavic Orthodox rule over Tatar and Turkish domination, and they were the ones who are now being on the vanguard of restoring the Russian nation.

[Rurkel]

"the most important Russian group now active in Ukraine is the Black Hundreds.
"Most important" might be pushing it a bit, and while it's true that fascist forces are electorally rather weak, but in the atmosphere of "national mobilization" that Kiev trying to create, the distinction can sometimes blur, as a leftist notes here (http://russialist.org/stephen-d-shenfield-on-maidan-democratic-movement-or-nationalist-mobilization/):


One reason why we cannot draw a clear line separating ‘Banderites’ from mainstream nationalists is the success of the Banderites in gradually infiltrating the Bandera cult into the Orange mainstream. In 2009 a postal stamp was issued to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Bandera’s birth, and in January 2010 President Yushchenko posthumously awarded Bandera the title of Hero of Ukraine.

Not that it justifies whatever Renalenin is posting here.

[Tim Cornelis]

Indeed, not most important in size or popularity. Maybe the author meant in terms of danger, something like that -- if not, he's wrong. I'd say it's a very small group.