violent activist

[TOMANTOR666]

hi guys just wanted to know your option on groups such a revolution frontier (i think its called that) in Sweden and other violent left wing activist across the world.

[BIXX]

Kinda depends on more than whether or not they're violent IMO.

[Illegalitarian]

Yeah, what dirty doxxer said.


For example, the propaganda by the deed and illegalist strategies of early 20th century anarchists did have its merits and such actions shouldn't be shunned by anarchists, but violence from, say, Shining Path or FARC is a whole other animal.

[BIXX]

Never heard of shining path, who is that?

[Illegalitarian]

A slightly more principled FARC in the simplistic answer. A Maoist insurgent movement in Peru is the short basic answer

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Propaganda of the deed is shit, a waste of time that has never helped the working class one iota, but organising pro-active defence groups against fascism, which is what Revolutionary Front has done in the past, is a tactic that revolutionaries must use if they want to be prepared to face the forces of reaction.

[Illegalitarian]

I disagree that propaganda of the deed has never done anything for the working class. In fact, it seems violent action has pretty much been the only surefire way of greatly inconveniencing the state/ruling class enough to bring about pretty specific changes, even if they were simply small gains.



It shouldn't be the go-to revolutionary strategy, but it's a valid tactic nonetheless.

[BIXX]

Propaganda of the deed is shit, a waste of time that has never helped the working class one iota, but organising pro-active defence groups against fascism, which is what Revolutionary Front has done in the past, is a tactic that revolutionaries must use if they want to be prepared to face the forces of reaction.
Never knew you were such a liberal.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

A slightly more principled FARC in the simplistic answer. A Maoist insurgent movement in Peru is the short basic answer

I don't want to say the FARC is hugely principled, but I certainly dont think that the Shining Path is either.

[Illegalitarian]

They're both quite awful but the Shining Path at least still pretends to be something other than narco-terrorists

[Art Vandelay]

Never knew you were such a liberal.

What are you even talking about? Marxists oppose individual terrorism, plain and simple. You using GMM's rejection of propaganda of the deed (while he simultaneously elucidates the necessity of organizing anti-fascist defence), as evidence of him being liberal is ridiculous. I have nothing against you as an individual, but you're neither a revolutionary, or a leftist, so I think you should probably bite your tounge when it comes to making said proclamations. Cause if they could be directed to anyone around here, you'd make the short list.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Never knew you were such a liberal.
Maybe I'm just using a definition of 'propaganda of the deed' that's reduced to 'individual terrorism' but, frankly, if you actually read my post you might have seen me advocate workers organising to fight fascists on the streets. You can call me a 'liberal' all you want - I'll just call you someone with bad reading comprehension.

[consuming negativity]

Propaganda of the deed is not and never will be some asshole breaking windows and throwing bricks because "fuck everything, man". The concept itself, however, is completely genuine, and it's a shame that most people apparently don't even know what it actually is.

[BIXX]

What are you even talking about? Marxists oppose individual terrorism, plain and simple. You using GMM's rejection of propaganda of the deed (while he simultaneously elucidates the necessity of organizing anti-fascist defence), as evidence of him being liberal is ridiculous. I have nothing against you as an individual, but you're neither a revolutionary, or a leftist, so I think you should probably bite your tounge when it comes to making said proclamations.

I actually didn't expect it to be taken so seriously. I was semi-joking (the disapproval of GMM's stance was real, but I really don't think that GMM is a liberal).


Cause if they could be directed to anyone around here, you'd make the short list.

While not a revolutionary or a leftist, I am most assuredly not a liberal. But I can see your point I think.

Anyway sorry about the bad joke.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The whole concept of potd was that people would witness the acts of violence being committed and would interpret those acts as something to be emulated, which obviously is not what happened. Most people are repulsed by acts of cold blooded violence for example, even if the victim of the violence is responsible for bad things. There was a lot of reprisal violence in the aftermath of the collapse of the paris commune (the decade or two following the communes collapse being more or less the nadir of potd as a tactic with influence) but none of it led to anything particularly good.

[Illegalitarian]

Just because the average person didn't see anarchist potd and jump to arms didn't mean that these methods were shown to be exemplary and effective in bringing forth almost every meaningful positive change since the beginning of it all (potd also includes direct action of any kind, it doesn't necessarily mean violence).

As time goes by more and more people will see this to be true, as they have (I saw way more people in favor of the Ferguson protests hailing riots and looting as legitimate response to gentrification and police repression than I saw people claiming that they were going about it the wrong way, for example).


There's a time and a place.. you don't want to go around bombing general stores and shit like that. When someone returns to their apartment and hears news of anarchist violence in the area, looking up to see a structure fire and people panicking everywhere, they're not going to see a liberator. Fortunately no one is advocating that

[Sasha]

this is the OP's very first post, you all are probably either talking to a cop or to a troll (or both).

[Os Cangaceiros]

Just because the average person didn't see anarchist potd and jump to arms didn't mean that these methods were shown to be exemplary and effective in bringing forth almost every meaningful positive change since the beginning of it all (potd also includes direct action of any kind, it doesn't necessarily mean violence).


What exactly can we look at, social change-wise, and say "that was a good thing & the result of 'propaganda of the deed' ?"

[John Nada]

hi guys just wanted to know your option on groups such a revolution frontierBrotherhood of Nod (i think its called that) in SwedenCommand and Conquer and other violent left wing activist across the worldmissions in the game.Fixed. I like Red Alert. Long live Kane-Stalin-Yuri Thought!:thumbup1:
this is the OP's very first post, you all are probably either talking to a cop or to a troll (or both).Or a kid who just played Red Alert, or wants to be edgy. Or all of the above.
What exactly can we look at, social change-wise, and say "that was a good thing & the result of 'propaganda of the deed' ?"Depends on what "a good thing" is. I can think of probably two or three individually at least. But even little things can add up in the long run.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Fixed. I like Red Alert. Long live Kane-Stalin-Yuri Thought!:thumbup1:

The Brotherhood of Nod wasn't in Red Alert...

Kane lives tho.

I don't think the OP is a cop, or, if they are, they aren't doing a very good job of it. More likely they're a liberal trying to show us that communism leads to violence (oh no) and restrictions on free speech and whatever.

Obviously social change is impossible without violence. The bourgeois republic didn't come into existence without the guillotine, after all. As for people who are violent today, that depends. Some of them are Narodniks, more than a century too late, some of them are engaging in self-defence against violent bourgeois forces, and some are just weekend warriors who think picking fights with random fascists is the height of revolutionary politics.

[Bala Perdida]

Violence is okay, under circumstances. That's basically how things get done and messages spread. People condemn violence all the time, and then call for the blood of the savage who committed it. It's pretty weird.
Can it be out of place and inconvenient, unnecessary even? Sure, all the time. Calling for peace however is ineffective in many situations. The enemy's vision of peace is your submission. As long as there is misery, there will be violence as an attempt to escape it.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I think there's probably some middle ground between throwing bombs out of your car window and calling for peace with the state, wouldn't you say? Tactics are only as good as their results, a dead monarch or industrialist might make me warm and fuzzy when I read about it but it doesn't change the fact that a century later we're all still wage slaves, or that the state is stronger than it's ever been. Direct action in general has it's place but propaganda of the deed is a wholly separate phenomena that holds very little meaning for people other than the one/s performing the action.

I'm not gonna shit all over someone's self-realization/revenge or whatever but I'm not going to pretend that it has anything to do with me either.

[PhoenixAsh]

Edit: wrong thread. F-ing phone :(

[Illegalitarian]

I think there's probably some middle ground between throwing bombs out of your car window and calling for peace with the state, wouldn't you say? Tactics are only as good as their results, a dead monarch or industrialist might make me warm and fuzzy when I read about it but it doesn't change the fact that a century later we're all still wage slaves, or that the state is stronger than it's ever been. Direct action in general has it's place but propaganda of the deed is a wholly separate phenomena that holds very little meaning for people other than the one/s performing the action.

I'm not gonna shit all over someone's self-realization/revenge or whatever but I'm not going to pretend that it has anything to do with me either.

Direct Action could be considered potd. Potd isn't characterized by action, t's characterized by deed, I'd say.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

You're free to call it whatever you wish, but I've never seen that as the general consensus. Direct action is open ended, it invites others to join in and take part. A conspiratorial plot is diametrically opposed to that kind of spirit, it places the plotters above and out of reach of the rest of the class.

[Illegalitarian]

Well that's the thing, early conceptions of potd were not limited to conspiratorial attacks.

I mean I know that modern conceptions of both strategies place them as separate things but technically they fall in place with one another, that's all i meant

[PhoenixAsh]

POTD is not exclusive to violent acts and includes striking, illegalism, communes etc.

When it comes to violent acts they have always failed outside of specific contexts. This does not negate the idea...but it does negate the idea that violence should be considered as the one alternative. Violence in my opinion should be highly contextual and rightly timed.

IMO. Its effects are only felt after a prolonged period of the right violent acts within the right time frame within the right context. I used to have a sig of a members post saying about the London riots:

what we are seeing is an entire generation losing their fear of the police and authority.

Or something along those lines...and I think that is an essentially correct statement.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Is that really the case though? Is there a higher instance of insubordination in areas effected by the riots now than there was previously?

[Atsumari]

Regarding the topic of social change, the question should not be violence vs non-violence but rather how can you prevent the police of having control. Whenever you have a violent protest caused by a provocateur simply trying to destroy the movement, you have lost control. Likewise, if a group of peaceful protesters simply let themselves be evicted while trying to claim the moral high ground, they have lost control.
One thing though, the Black Bloc at the American Occupy made me sad. Those guys really seemed to demonstrate the popular definition of what anarchism is.