National Coming Out Day

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

It's National Coming Out Day. I'm bisexual and transgender. I've been out as the former since 2003, and as the latter since 1994, but I'll say it again in solidarity with those coming out for the first time today.

[RedWorker]

Everyone, come out! Or don't. Do whatever is best for you. But do what you really want. There's something awesome about bisexual people.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Everyone, come out! Or don't. Do whatever is best for you. But do what you really want. There's something awesome about bisexual people.

What.

[RedWorker]

Well, first I wanted to encourage everyone to come out. Then I realized this might put a stress on people who don't really want to come out or for people which coming out isn't the best option. So I edited my post because who should I be to tell people what to do anyway? I guess the greater point that I was emphasizing is that members of oppressed groups should feel free to do whatever they want rather than feel they have to hide.

Also, there's something awesome about bisexual people.

[Magón]

There really is a day for everything, isn't there?

Well, whatever, I support anyone coming out today, tomorrow, day after tomorrow, yesterday if they did, or whenever. Doesn't matter to me.

[Rosa Partizan]

Well, first I wanted to encourage everyone to come out. Then I realized this might put a stress on people who don't really want to come out or for people which coming out isn't the best option. So I edited my post because who should I be to tell people what to do anyway? I guess the greater point that I was emphasizing is that members of oppressed groups should feel free to do whatever they want rather than feel they have to hide.

Also, there's something awesome about bisexual people.

what exactly? I'm just curious what's on your mind.

[RedWorker]

Nothing, bisexuality just looks like a pretty cool sexual orientation to me.

[Rosa Partizan]

Nothing, bisexuality just looks like a pretty cool sexual orientation to me.

so homosexuality is less cool? Can sexual orientations in general be cool or uncool? I just don't get it :confused:

[Magón]

so homosexuality is less cool? Can sexual orientations in general be cool or uncool? I just don't get it :confused:

Clearly, if you're homosexual or heterosexual, you're missing out on one side of the fun you could be having, where bisexuals have their pick of whatever they're feeling up for, and have fun with whoever. Duh!

(This is sarcasm.)

[Rosa Partizan]

I'm hetero and I miss out on Ewan McGregor, that's the biggest shame of all.

[Magón]

I'm hetero and I miss out on Ewan McGregor, that's the biggest shame of all.

And I miss out on Shakira. The world will never truly see peace, until we get our ways.

[Quail]

Come on guys, be serious.

I'm curious to know why bisexuality seems like the "coolest" sexuality. I guess it's good having more potential partners, but it also comes with a lot of stereotypes ("bisexual people cheat"/"bisexual people are confused"/etc).

I guess it's good to have a day of solidarity with people who are coming out, but it also makes me sad that we live in a world where "coming out" is a thing. People shouldn't just assume you're straight until they're told otherwise.

[Rosa Partizan]

Come on guys, be serious.

I'm curious to know why bisexuality seems like the "coolest" sexuality. I guess it's good having more potential partners, but it also comes with a lot of stereotypes ("bisexual people cheat"/"bisexual people are confused"/etc).

I guess it's good to have a day of solidarity with people who are coming out, but it also makes me sad that we live in a world where "coming out" is a thing. People shouldn't just assume you're straight until they're told otherwise.

I kinda agree, but very limited. Many people say stuff like "you double your choice", and this is completely untrue, because in our heteronormative society, only a statistical minority feels attracted to the same sex. I mean, really attracted, not some childish hetero women "let's pretend to be bi and make out, it's so funny hihihi" stuff.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

A heterosexual or an exclusively homosexual person can be attracted to more people than a bisexual - bisexuals by definition don't care about sex and gender (that much), but that doesn't mean we can't be picky about body types, age and a thousand other factors.

Plus there's that entire "possibility of being beaten up" thing, although exclusive homosexuals have it far worse. I don't know - I'm certainly not going to be offended because someone things bisexuality is "cool", but that seems to rely on myth more than on objective fact.

[Quail]

I didn't mean to imply that bisexuals can't be picky btw, I was just thinking that a larger dating pool seemed to be the only advantage I could think of. There are a fair few disadvantages though and the stereotypes come from straight people and gay people. I'm not sure about gay men but I've noticed that some gay women seem to be overly concerned with bisexual women leaving them for a man - which is sad, because it obviously comes from the social conditioning of a sexist and heteronormative society.

[human strike]

I'm hetero and I miss out on Ewan McGregor, that's the biggest shame of all.

Yesterday someone described me as looking like Ewan McGregor... in Train Spotting. Still though.

P.S. I'm queer.

[Skyhilist]

I would likely consider myself genderqueer although I feel like it would be an annoyance to have to constantly ask people not to use heteronormative gender pronouns (and yes I realize gender queer has nothing to do with sexuality). For now and likely always I remained a privileged heterosexual cisgender male. Threads like this are cool though and I hope all my comrades are able to feel comfortable with their sexual preference.

[Atsumari]

Is there a term for people who are more attracted to a perceived gender rather than sex? For example, I prefer more feminine looking individuals whether they are a man or woman but I cannot go for anyone who is pretty masculine regardless of whether they male or female.

[Slavic]

Is there a term for people who are more attracted to a perceived gender rather than sex? For example, I prefer more feminine looking individuals whether they are a man or woman but I cannot go for anyone who is pretty masculine regardless of whether they male or female.

I have the same attractions but I don't know why it is so necessary to label things. Wouldn't it be better to just have interests as opposed to placing those interests in a box and labeling said box.

[Zanthorus]

I'm bisexual and I pride myself on being totally ignorant of what is and isn't cool these days.



Plus there's that entire "possibility of being beaten up" thing, although exclusive homosexuals have it far worse.

I don't know about physical violence. But bisexual people have much higher rates of mental health problems. There have been studies that show that people hold negative stereotypes about bisexuals, while not being able to identify them as such, because they didn't know those were stereotypes in the first place (Bisexual erasure doesn't get much press). Also there was one Australian study which found that women who came out as lesbians got more positive responses on average from their siblings compared to women who came out as bisexual.


I guess it's good having more potential partners,

Not necessarily, some straight women seem totally repulsed by the idea of having a partner who has homoerotic desires or even might have had gay sex. Some gay guys have anxiety about the whole being left for a woman thing too. Your pool of potential partners when you're bi isn't 'straight people of the opposite gender and gay people of the same gender'. It's 'straight people of the opposite gender and gay people of the same gender who are OK dating someone who identifies as bisexual'.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I don't know about physical violence.

A bisexual has a much higher chance of passing as a straight.


But bisexual people have much higher rates of mental health problems. There have been studies that show that people hold negative stereotypes about bisexuals, while not being able to identify them as such, because they didn't know those were stereotypes in the first place (Bisexual erasure doesn't get much press). Also there was one Australian study which found that women who came out as lesbians got more positive responses on average from their siblings compared to women who came out as bisexual.

Do you have a source for the claim about mental health problems? It sounds off to me.

Anyway, I really don't think negative stereotypes are in any way comparable to actual physical violence and harassment, which, to be honest, is why I tend to steer clear of some activist bisexuals who try to invent "homosexual biphobia" and whatnot.

[Quail]

Not necessarily, some straight women seem totally repulsed by the idea of having a partner who has homoerotic desires or even might have had gay sex. Some gay guys have anxiety about the whole being left for a woman thing too. Your pool of potential partners when you're bi isn't 'straight people of the opposite gender and gay people of the same gender'. It's 'straight people of the opposite gender and gay people of the same gender who are OK dating someone who identifies as bisexual'.
I've never had the problem that someone I actually wanted to date had an issue with bi people, but I have heard loads of people (both gay and straight) say hideously ignorant things about why they wouldn't date a bi person, so I do know it's not that simple.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

some activist bisexuals who try to invent "homosexual biphobia" and whatnot.
There's nothing to invent. It's just fact that some gay men and lesbians are biphobic, right down to saying they would never date a bisexual.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

There's nothing to invent. It's just fact that some gay men and lesbians are biphobic, right down to saying they would never date a bisexual.

So? I mean, people are not obliged to date anyone they don't want to, it's pretty simple. Only dating "curvy" women doesn't make one "thinphobic", although I'm pretty sure some people would say that it does. These people have at best a long-distance relationship with reality.

And of course some exclusively homosexual people hold stereotypes about bisexuals. What is ludicrous is comparing this to homophobia, which is structural violence, often state violence, against gay people.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

So? I mean, people are not obliged to date anyone they don't want to, it's pretty simple.
Sure, but it's still a prejudice, and I'll call it out as such especially when it comes from gay men or lesbians who should bloody well know better.


And of course some exclusively homosexual people hold stereotypes about bisexuals. What is ludicrous is comparing this to homophobia, which is structural violence, often state violence, against gay people.
Bisexual people also suffer from such structural violence, so I'm not getting your point.

[Rosa Partizan]

Bisexuality among men is for many, many people the same as being gay, I've encountered this very often. So I don't think that they would in, let's say Russia, cut bisexual men some slack when they see them holding hands on the street.

[Zanthorus]

Do you have a source for the claim about mental health problems? It sounds off to me.


Of all the common sexual identity groups, bisexual people most frequently have mental health problems, including depression, self-harm, anxiety and suicidality. This has been found both internationally and in the UK specifically, and has been linked to experiences of biphobia and bisexual invisibility. A major Canadian study found bisexual men to be 6.3 times more likely, and bisexual women 5.9 times more likely, to report having been suicidal than heterosexual people (in both groups this was also higher than rates for gay men and lesbians). A large Australian study found rates of mental health problems amongst bisexual people to be higher than those amongst lesbians, gay men or heterosexual people...

The key mind report on the mental health and wellbeing of LGB people in England and wales found that bisexual men and women were less at ease about their sexuality than lesbian and gay people... Further, bisexual women were found to be less likely than lesbians to have received positive responses to their sexual identity from siblings. Bisexual men in particular were found to experience more psychological distress than gay men. They were also more likely to cite their sexuality as the reason for harming themselves."

(I misremembered the study on reactions to sexuality from sibilings, it was English, not Australian)

Citations are:

Jorm, A., Korten, A., Rodgers, B., Jacomb, P., & Christensen, H. (2002). Sexual Orientation and mental health: Results from a community survey of young and middle-aged adults. British Journal of Psychiatry, 180, 423-427.

King, M., & McKeown, E. (2003). Mental health and well-being of gay men, lesbians and bisexuals in England and Wales. London: Mind.

Richards, C., & Barker, M. (2012). Sexuality and gender for counsellors, psychologists and health professionals: A practical guide. London: Sage.

San Francisco Human Rights Commission (2010). Bisexual invisibility: Impacts and reccomendations. San Francisco: San Francisco Human Rights Comission LGBT Advisory Committee.

The full text of that report, which includes a lot of information about bisexuality in general, which you might consider reading is here (http://www.open.ac.uk/ccig/files/ccig/The%20BisexualityReport%20Feb.2012.pdf).


Anyway, I really don't think negative stereotypes are in any way comparable to actual physical violence and harassmentBisexual people do apparently suffer less from homophobic hate crime than the general LGBT population, but they do still suffer from it (also there are reasons to suspect that hate crimes against bisexuals might be underreported). Negative stereotypes can have harmful effects on people's mental well-being and quality of life, as discussed above. I don't think your attitude is very positive or helpful.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Sure, but it's still a prejudice, and I'll call it out as such especially when it comes from gay men or lesbians who should bloody well know better.

Or it could be a personal preference. Again, I think people are stretching the term "prejudice" to the extent that it's becoming increasingly nonsensical.


Bisexual people also suffer from such structural violence, so I'm not getting your point.

Of course, but we suffer from structural violence to the extent that we're identified as non-heterosexual, not because of our bisexual identity as such. And that structural violence generally comes from the state apparatus and from certain groups of straight men - it does not come from exclusive homosexuals. I think it is ludicrous and borderline offensive to compare a gay person having certain preconceived notions about bisexuals to homophobia.


The full text of that report, which includes a lot of information about bisexuality in general, which you might consider reading is here (http://www.open.ac.uk/ccig/files/ccig/The%20BisexualityReport%20Feb.2012.pdf).

I will read the report - probably not today as I don't have the time - but in the meantime, I think two studies are hardly conclusive, particularly when trying to quantify something as elusive as mental well-being.


Bisexual people do apparently suffer less from homophobic hate crime than the general LGBT population, but they do still suffer from it (also there are reasons to suspect that hate crimes against bisexuals might be underreported). Negative stereotypes can have harmful effects on people's mental well-being and quality of life, as discussed above. I don't think your attitude is very positive or helpful.

Of course stereotypes can have significant harmful effect, but this is not necessarily the case. My attitude might not be positive - in fact I'm reacting negatively to what I see as attempts at splitting the movement for gay rights, not in the direction it should be split in (along class lines), but so it is atomised in individual struggles of pedantically-defined sexualities. But I do think it is helpful.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

It's National Coming Out Day. I'm bisexual and transgender. I've been out as the former since 2003, and as the latter since 1994, but I'll say it again in solidarity with those coming out for the first time today.

Why do I need too, would want too or feel encouraged to release even more of my medical history than I already do? Does no one ever stop to think anymore that you're not required to divulge shit and that doing so is a small form of psychological subjugation IMO? What is discussed between me, my shrink and doctor stays within that circle of trust. I just really don't think people should be privy to such things as well as "is she on something? What she high on" or "is bulemic? Cuz she eats excessively and is forever tiny." The answer or response to both is "the possible side-effects of my medication and in addition, my diet, is between me and my trusted care physician." Just the same as my sexual or romantic orientation and perceived gender indentity.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

in fact I'm reacting negatively to what I see as attempts at splitting the movement for gay rights, not in the direction it should be split in (along class lines), but so it is atomised in individual struggles of pedantically-defined sexualities. But I do think it is helpful.
In the two decades I've been out, I've routinely seen some gays and lesbians want to exclude people like me from the LGBT movement for being trans and/or bisexual. If anyone is attempting to split the movement, it's them. So maybe you should start calling them out.

[Rosa Partizan]

I don't doubt what you say, but why would someone try to exclude you from a movement that was exactly designed for you?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I don't doubt what you say, but why would someone try to exclude you from a movement that was exactly designed for you?

Actually, prejudice against bisexuals is a thing within the gay community and are met with suspicion. The same could be said of trans rights because I personally know people who think that trans rights has nothing to do with them.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I don't doubt what you say, but why would someone try to exclude you from a movement that was exactly designed for you?
Because they view the movement as being for gays and lesbians only. They view bisexuals with suspicion, and trans people with disdain.