American Sniper by Clint Eastwood

[ola.]

So I can't believe there's an actual movie based on the true life story of Chris Kyle - not sure if any of you guys heard of him, but he is celebrated as some glorious hero for his 150+ confirmed kills in Iraq. I don't know how you can be a hero when you're fighting for an aggressive, illegal force in an essentially criminal war, but thats Hollywood for you. Just saw the trailer, and it honestly screams military propaganda to me.

cRbAXWfthtA

What do you guys think?

[Zoroaster]

"Dirty Harry" was Clint's good days, this is just him trying to stay on top.

[PhoenixAsh]

While Dirty Harry were excellent movies in their own right in their genre...they were of course also ultra conservative, semi racist, and pro cop violence propaganda.

Clint Eastwood himself is a conservative politician so that kind of says enough....

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Didn't they make a movie with actual navy seals in it? I don't think they can top that kind of propaganda short of introducing some kind of fictional meta plot to an actual conflict and then filming it. I think the nature of war heroes has changed for the US. Individual soldiers receive very little fanfare, the real "heroes" that are presented to the American public these days are inanimate objects like aircraft carriers and smart bombs.

[JahLemon]

If you take a step back and look at the fact that the guy killed over a 150 people, doesn't that seem like an odd thing to celebrate?

[GiantMonkeyMan]

It reminds me of the mock-Nazi Propaganda film that's made to celebrate a German sniper in Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Individual soldiers receive very little fanfare,

They receive tons of praise and fanfare

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

No I mean in the sense of war heroes of the past. Individual soldiers are not made into movie stars or whatever as they were in previous wars. Can you name anyone who has earned a medal of honor or the name of one of our hot shot fighter pilots from any of our recent wars? But yes obviously soldiers get lots of attention from the public, but this happens regardless of whether they have done anything of merit in combat. Everybody gets treated to free beers and early boarding on planes, even if they've only just enlisted.

I just find it odd that this role seems to be fulfilled by F22s and shit now, rather than by actual humans

[Lord Testicles]

Isn't every Hollywood war movie essentially a propaganda movie? To quote Frankie Boyle:

“Americans making a movie about what Vietnam did to the soldiers is like a serial killer telling you what stopping suddenly to pick up hitch-hikers did to his clutch”


uZwuTI-V8SI

[Red Terror Dr.]

Clint Eastwood thinks he's a damn cowboy. What a fool! This is nothing but propaganda by the Hollywood elites.

[Red Commissar]

No I mean in the sense of war heroes of the past. Individual soldiers are not made into movie stars or whatever as they were in previous wars. Can you name anyone who has earned a medal of honor or the name of one of our hot shot fighter pilots from any of our recent wars? But yes obviously soldiers get lots of attention from the public, but this happens regardless of whether they have done anything of merit in combat. Everybody gets treated to free beers and early boarding on planes, even if they've only just enlisted.

I just find it odd that this role seems to be fulfilled by F22s and shit now, rather than by actual humans

Well, from the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars we have the case of Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman respectively, both of whom were pretty well boosted and advertised across the media with Lynch being praised for her conduct in the ambush before capture and Tillman for dying fighting the Taliban after leaving a far more lucrative pro football career. Granted, neither got wide-release movies but they were heavily promoted in media channels and I believe there was a made-for-tv movie about Jessica Lynch.

That was before of course the true circumstances of their wartime duty was revealed- Lynch herself pushed back against it later by pointing out it was a fellow soldier who died in the ambush, Lori Piestewa, who should've been heralded, and we found out that Pat Tillman's death was from friendly fire rather than the Taliban as the US military had initially claimed.

I don't really know anything about Chris Kyle, his autobiography, or this movie besides the fact he was jingoistic as fuck and nutty, and ended up murdered at a shooting range.

Was this movie in development before he died, or did it start afterwards?

[ola.]

I don't really know anything about Chris Kyle, his autobiography, or this movie besides the fact he was jingoistic as fuck and nutty, and ended up murdered at a shooting range.

Was this movie in development before he died, or did it start afterwards?

I read that the movie was in development over a year before Kyle's death.

I read just a bit of his autobiography, since I only heard of him upon his death and wanted to know what all the fuss was about, and yeah, I sure didn't care to finish it. It was definitely a God, Guns and Glory type of book.

[ola.]

Isn't every Hollywood war movie essentially a propaganda movie?

True, but I guess I'm just taken back by the fact that this was actually worthy of a movie. The trailer alone is disturbing. The scene in the trailer is said to portray Kyle's earlier encounters with a female suicide bomber and her son and in the trailer, it portrays Kyle as some conflicted, tortured soul who is reminded of his own child and wife when looking at his target and hesitating about following through - as if he sees them as "humans". Only this is how Kyle actually described the event and the woman in his book:


She was too blinded by evil to consider them. She just wanted Americans dead, no matter what. My shots saved several Americans, whose lives were clearly worth more than that woman’s twisted soul. I can stand before God with a clear conscience about doing my job. But I truly, deeply hated the evil that woman possessed. I hate it to this day. Savage, despicable evil. That’s what we were fighting in Iraq. That’s why a lot of people, myself included, called the enemy 'savages'.

People ask me all the time, “How many people have you killed?” My standard response is, “Does the answer make me less, or more, of a man?” The number is not important to me. I only wish I had killed more. Not for bragging rights, but because I believe the world is a better place without savages out there taking American lives.

This was literally just 11 pages into the book.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Well, from the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars we have the case of Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman respectively, both of whom were pretty well boosted and advertised across the media with Lynch being praised for her conduct in the ambush before capture and Tillman for dying fighting the Taliban after leaving a far more lucrative pro football career. Granted, neither got wide-release movies but they were heavily promoted in media channels and I believe there was a made-for-tv movie about Jessica Lynch.

That was before of course the true circumstances of their wartime duty was revealed- Lynch herself pushed back against it later by pointing out it was a fellow soldier who died in the ambush, Lori Piestewa, who should've been heralded, and we found out that Pat Tillman's death was from friendly fire rather than the Taliban as the US military had initially claimed.

I don't really know anything about Chris Kyle, his autobiography, or this movie besides the fact he was jingoistic as fuck and nutty, and ended up murdered at a shooting range.

Was this movie in development before he died, or did it start afterwards?

Lynch I think was just exploited for the fact that she was a relatively attractive blonde woman in a combat zone. It was easy to let the public's mind run a little wild with terrifying images of the savage Iraqi menace doing awful things to her, which of course never actually happened. She was maybe an early attempt at creating a hero but it didn't really click since she didn't keep up her end of the lie.

Tilman is a good point, I forgot about him. As I recall though he was making statements that were critical of both US strategy in Afghanistan and it's foreign policy in general before he was killed. I also remember the rumor being that there were rivalries in the unit as a result of his background and the shit he was saying which may have been the real cause of his friendly fire incident. The cover up didn't really help quash the rumor.

F22s and predator drones are certainly more reliable propaganda tools than people given those two instances I guess.

[Magón]

American Sniper is just another Lone Survivor. And if you read an excerpt out of that book, I'm sure American Sniper is no different, you find all sorts of patriotic ramblings and this and that. Don't plan on seeing either one.

[John Nada]

Well, from the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars we have the case of Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman respectively, both of whom were pretty well boosted and advertised across the media with Lynch being praised for her conduct in the ambush before capture and Tillman for dying fighting the Taliban after leaving a far more lucrative pro football career. Granted, neither got wide-release movies but they were heavily promoted in media channels and I believe there was a made-for-tv movie about Jessica Lynch.

That was before of course the true circumstances of their wartime duty was revealed- Lynch herself pushed back against it later by pointing out it was a fellow soldier who died in the ambush, Lori Piestewa, who should've been heralded, and we found out that Pat Tillman's death was from friendly fire rather than the Taliban as the US military had initially claimed.Piestewa did get a mountain renamed after her in Arizona, US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piestewa_Peak . It used to be called "Squaw Peak" but AIM wanted it renamed Iron Mountain and the federal government made a policy to try to replace racist geological names. The Democrats pushed for Piestewa Peak instead. The opponents complained that she got them killed because she was a "bad driver" and this is just PC run amok. Somehow I think this is still kind of racist.:thumbdown:
I read just a bit of his autobiography, since I only heard of him upon his death and wanted to know what all the fuss was about, and yeah, I sure didn't care to finish it. It was definitely a God, Guns and Glory type of book.He got sued for libel by the rightist former wrestler/Governor Jesse Ventura. He claimed that Ventura was talking shit about Bush, so he kicked his ass. It was bullshit, and Ventura won the case after he was dead. Maybe he's was the biggest bullshitter?

Besides Lyudmila Pavlichenko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko) got twice as many kills as him, and they probably weren't moms with their kids either. Women under socialism>baby killing imperalist running dogs!:tt2:
F22s and predator drones are certainly more reliable propaganda tools than people given those two instances I guess.They're a lot more flashy than comprador, drug-dealing, death squads. A movie about a white guy ordering brown people to kill each other isn't as compelling. That's a big part of what special forces do, as "advisers". Don't see many movies about South Vietnam or the US-installed Iraqi government, even though they do more of the fighting and take more casualties.
American Sniper is just another Lone Survivor. And if you read an excerpt out of that book, I'm sure American Sniper is no different, you find all sorts of patriotic ramblings and this and that. Don't plan on seeing either one.All movies, and a lot of books and video games, that have anything remotely to do with the US military get funding from them. So long as it's positive, ie We Were Solders vs. Apocalypse Now. The better propaganda pieces won't have anything to do with a real war. So even if they bomb there's a financial incentive.

[Mr. Piccolo]

It looks like Chris Kyle made up a lot of things in his book. In addition to the lie that he beat up Jesse Ventura, he also claimed that he killed two carjackers at a gas station near Dallas, Texas. He claimed that his driver's license directed local police to contact the Pentagon so apparently nothing came of the incident.

Kyle also claimed that he shot 30 looters from atop the Superdome in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Of course, there is no evidence that either of these stories actually happened.

Perhaps more disturbing are Kyle's comments about having "fun" being a sniper in Iraq, and that the Iraqis are "savages" and that he "couldn't give a flying fuck about the Iraqis." It is telling that American conservatives absolutely love this guy and his movie is a big hit in the United States.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

I really can't say this enough:

Fuck.
Chris.
Kyle.

Fuck that racist, lying, psychotic prick... and fuck the imperialist scum who used him as a weapon in their invasion of the region. Fuck all of the neo-con patriot-bots w.ho hold this psycho up as some kind of hero.

[Atsumari]

Does anyone here have that one Facebook friend who posts nothing but "WHAT ABOUT CHRIS KYLE OBAMA?!?!?! DO YOU HATE OUR TROOPS?"

[Bala Perdida]

Does anyone here have that one Facebook friend who posts nothing but "WHAT ABOUT CHRIS KYLE OBAMA?!?!?! DO YOU HATE OUR TROOPS?"
Fucking shit I hated that. I remember this piece of shit picture came out after Chavez's death.
http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Guess-Which-One.jpg

Seriously? Sending government agents that where already in the region means he loves him? Also I'm guessing military officials where at that guy's funeral, so it essentially had government presence. Either way, fuck both of them. "Fuck Kyle" more! (Cartmen)

[Invader Zim]

While Dirty Harry were excellent movies in their own right in their genre...they were of course also ultra conservative, semi racist, and pro cop violence propaganda.

Clint Eastwood himself is a conservative politician so that kind of says enough....
Hmm, I didn't think the second one was so bad - at least not by comparison to the politics of the first film.

His films are also pretty varied in terms of politics, Million Dollar Baby and Invictus being markedly different from, say, High Plains Drifter - which actually has pretty terrifying attitudes, particualrly towards women (i.e. Clint being so manly that a woman enjoys being raped).

[Futility Personified]

I saw the 'blowup' (as if we weren't doomed enough when twitter spats are mistaken for serious cultural exchanges) between Seth Rogan and the former superman dude. The superman dude, for the awe inspiring mediocrity that he was, starts the typical bullshit of "you don't know what war is like", Rogan backtracks as if his legs were installed rotated and says he likes the film.

This sniper fellow was clearly a psychopath, and lauding him is like lauding an assault rifle for it's staggering efficiency in mowing people down at the same ratio a lawnmower does grass. I know the 'American Empire' stuff is overdone, but come on, imperialism to the max when pieces of shit like this are posthumously defended. When people defend his example, I feel like saying 'we're all doomed' is not just nihilistic grandstanding.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It would be fun if the film portrayed him as some kind of messed-up anti-hero character (but that's highly unlikely lol)

IZ: I also liked the second film, which was "Magnum Force" I believe? In which vigilante cops were the villains?

[Mr. Piccolo]

This sniper fellow was clearly a psychopath, and lauding him is like lauding an assault rifle for it's staggering efficiency in mowing people down at the same ratio a lawnmower does grass. I know the 'American Empire' stuff is overdone, but come on, imperialism to the max when pieces of shit like this are posthumously defended. When people defend his example, I feel like saying 'we're all doomed' is not just nihilistic grandstanding.

Conservatives in the U.S. get very pissed if you question Kyle's integrity. They get really angry if you mention all the lies he told in his book. Chris Kyle and his publishing company used the lie about Kyle beating up Jesse Ventura to sell the book, which went from mediocre sales to a bestseller as soon as Kyle admitted that Jesse Ventura was the person in the fight story (he used a pseudonym in the book).

Ventura won a defamation lawsuit against Kyle and his publisher which is hard to do because you must prove that the statements were not only false but made with actual malice, that is, knowing that the statements were false. People get mad at Jesse Ventura for the lawsuit because he was "going after a widow" (Kyle's wife) but the lawsuit was filed before he died and in any event I believe the publisher's insurance is paying for her end of the award to Ventura.

I know Americans would not care about Kyle bragging about killing Iraqis (many of them think its cool), but now people know the guy lied about another veteran (Ventura) for financial gain and made up stories about killing Americans in America (the carjacker story and the Superdome/looters story) and yet people still defend him as a hero and are flocking to see the movie.

[Atsumari]

http://www.katelynholm.com/blog/2015/1/19/why-should-you-be-offended-by-american-sniper

Kyle was killing the mother and her son in order to protect his own friends so the marines could attempt to create peace in a country that caused so much turmoil in the U.S.
Do these people have no imagination at all?

[ola.]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/12eb1cea20abcd7520164de3403b01c3/tumblr_niehgkFRzU1rqru76o1_500.png

Huh.

[consuming negativity]

It reminds me of the mock-Nazi Propaganda film that's made to celebrate a German sniper in Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds.

this post is great in the context of the shitfest surrounding seth rogen making the exact comment months later

[ola.]

http://www.katelynholm.com/blog/2015/1/19/why-should-you-be-offended-by-american-sniper

Do these people have no imagination at all?

So is this movie popular only among conservatives or something? Because I gotta admit, most liberals (not all, most... or at least alot) have been pointing out the obvious propaganda in the movie. Reading comments from angry conservatives about the movie, you'd think it was 2003 all over again. "DO YOU EVEN CARE THAT SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS???"

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

On one hand this guy was awful and everything, on the other hand in regards to my earlier posts he is absolutely the hero america wants, forget f22s . I read some of this dudes book and he genuinely enjoyed killing people for the sake of killing people, holy shit. I bet the pentagon is upset that it can't just upload his brain into a predator drone.

[Invader Zim]

Well Mark Kermode, BBC/Guardian film critic, former trot, and who usually punctures crass pro-military jingoistic nonsense in a heartbeat has the following to say:

CFyrF_m-HrI


I also liked the second film, which was "Magnum Force" I believe? In which vigilante cops were the villains?

That's the one.

[Bala Perdida]

you'd think it was 2003 all over again. "DO YOU EVEN CARE THAT SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS???"

Ironic considering they didn't. They probably didn't even know what a Kurd was until that statue was toppled.

[jullia]

Just sad bradley cooper is the main actor, i really enjoy him.

[Marxizm]

Half of the movie was them trying to justify the murder of children pointing a sniper scope at them, the other was them promoting right wing conservative heterosexual Christian male values.

[Diirez]

Reminded me eerily of the propaganada movie in Inglorious Bastards.
But when I mention this to people they just say "yeah but this guy was fighting the real bad guys!".
Yep, propaganda.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I watched the movie a while ago and, having just watched the Mark Kermode interview above posted by Zim, I agree with some of the points he makes. The movie felt like it didn't know what message it was trying to make. At some points it seems like it's reflecting on the insanity of making people think shooting children is perfectly fine and at other times it's jingoistic drivel. Maybe Eastwood is trying to allow audiences to judge for themselves what they get out of the film but I think the message at the end, detailing the main dude's death, just kinda ruins it completely. In general it's a completely average film not worthy of the Oscar nod it's getting, but then the Oscars is just the circle-jerking of the richest people in Hollywood so no surprise.


this post is great in the context of the shitfest surrounding seth rogen making the exact comment months later
Lol, when did this happen? You got a link? I quite like Seth Rogan, he seems like a guy I could chill with a few beers with.

[consuming negativity]

I watched the movie a while ago and, having just watched the Mark Kermode interview above posted by Zim, I agree with some of the points he makes. The movie felt like it didn't know what message it was trying to make. At some points it seems like it's reflecting on the insanity of making people think shooting children is perfectly fine and at other times it's jingoistic drivel. Maybe Eastwood is trying to allow audiences to judge for themselves what they get out of the film but I think the message at the end, detailing the main dude's death, just kinda ruins it completely. In general it's a completely average film not worthy of the Oscar nod it's getting, but then the Oscars is just the circle-jerking of the richest people in Hollywood so no surprise.


Lol, when did this happen? You got a link? I quite like Seth Rogan, he seems like a guy I could chill with a few beers with.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/seth-rogen-likens-american-sniper-to-nazi-propaganda-film-dean-cain-wants-to-kick-his-ass-9989403.html

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I mentioned the Inglorious Basterds likeness to my family over Thanksgiving dinner, but none of them had seen it so they didn't get it.

It looks like a shitty movie and Chris Kyle is an asshole.

[Mr. Piccolo]

I mentioned the Inglorious Basterds likeness to my family over Thanksgiving dinner, but none of them had seen it so they didn't get it.

It looks like a shitty movie and Chris Kyle is an asshole.

Several of my own family members are pestering me to see this film. They are all hardcore Fox News-watching conservatives. I try not to get into political arguments with family members, so I haven't come right out and told them how I feel about Chris Kyle.

[khad]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/12eb1cea20abcd7520164de3403b01c3/tumblr_niehgkFRzU1rqru76o1_500.png

Huh.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bud6-YxIAAIeF4R.jpg

And Americans get worked up over the Islamic State? Seems like people's hearts are the same, everywhere.

At least they're being honest.

[Rafiq]

An absolutely despicable film. This blatant chauvinism, vulgar even by liberal standards is allowed to be passed off as acceptable by merit of it's "ethical complexity". As though the monk who struggles to keep faith is any less substantiating his beliefs.

A return to an age, pre-'cultural' globalization, of overt chauvinism so great spineless politically correct liberals couldn't even hide it.

[Invader Zim]

An absolutely despicable film. This blatant chauvinism, vulgar even by liberal standards is allowed to be passed off as acceptable by merit of it's "ethical complexity". As though the monk who struggles to keep faith is any less substantiating his beliefs.

A return to an age, pre-'cultural' globalization, of overt chauvinism so great spineless politically correct liberals couldn't even hide it.

Have you actually watched it?

[Marxaveli]

Rafiq is right, the film is utter garbage. Complete racist, jingoist, xenophobic propaganda at its finest. This reviewer of the film is pretty spot on about it:

http://www.colesmithey.com/reviews/2015/01/american-sniper.html

[Raamah]

I both read the book and watched the film and have to say that the film truly only covers about 30% of it's content (as most adaptions do as always). Being from the far left of course but also having a background in philosophy I tried to give it a fair assessment. Honestly the book isn't propaganda although the film is sugarcoating important information. The book is really the ramblings of somebody suffering from some sort of mental illness. The film definitely leaves out the more controversial things for the sake of entertainment, such as Kyle's very stubborn trait of always making things black and white, physically overwhelming patriotism, alienation from every day things. The Chris Kyle in the film is such a softy compared to the real version.

However there are moments in the book that I wish the film included, one being Kyle distinguishing between the role of a soldier and politician. All political biases aside, there's something commendable about him criticizing the higher-ups who make calls yet aren't there on the ground to enforce it. This alone would've made Eastwood's film less of a propaganda flick and more of a critical thinking piece... but hey, who in America has the attention span to withstand that? LOL

In other words, I would've enjoyed the film a lot more had it been less commercial and more of an in-depth analysis of somebody engulfed in patriotism to the point that it alienates him in the way Marx wrote about.