FDR - a closest socialist?

[El Commandante]

I was wondering what people's opinions about F.D.Roosevelt are, and if you are agreed with me that he was in fact a socialist and couldn't reveal it to the general public because of the hysteria that would surround it.

Think about it, look at what he did, he brought in the social security bill, he taxed the rich more heavily then the poor to fund projects to get people into work and he tried to break down the power of the government in 1937 when he tried to remove the strangle hold that the supreme court had.

If FDR was a socialist and saved America with socialist principals does that mean that America is therefore a socialist country that has gone bad. Think about how that would look if more people became aware of it.

[Reuben]

I studied him in History last year. You might of as well. I do remember thinking that this is a pretty good guy for a U.S. president. He was critisized heavily by individualist right wing Americans for what he did. Unfortunately I don't think what he did even came near to being socialism though I think it was possible that as you say he was a closet socialist who went as far as he could.

Furthermore he was originally di not want conflict with the soviet union. In response to the activites of McArthy, he reprimanded him for not concentrating solely on fascists and said that he saw Russia as being America's most important allies for the future.

Your In struggle and eternal comradeship,

Reuben

[El Commandante]

I studied him in history as well, I'm revising it all now for my mock exams. I think that the greatest signs of socialism that he displayed where when he was the state governor of NYC when he raised $20,000,000 and helped the poor in the middle of the depression. But when he came to the major stage he had to watch what he did, because as you said individuals would attack him.

I agree that he didn't want war with Russia and saw her as an ally. But he also needed the war because of the Roosevelt Recession in '37 because he saw how reliant the people had become to hand outs. The war was a convient way of employing large numbers of people in the forces and industry.

If FDR had free reigns and hadn't had the Republicans breathing down his neck then he may have been able to display his true colours.

[I Will Deny You]

He's the best American president of the 20th century, in my humble opinion. If the Soviet Union weren't run by a mass murderer at the time and if former US presidents hadn't done so much stupid shit to Russia in the past, the USSR and US could have worked together and helped each other out more. If he had been in Ho Chi Minh's place, I think he would have done the same thing.

[RedCeltic]

The "New Deal" was taken off the Socialist Party's platform, and was promoted from inside the Democratic Party by socialists who joined up with the Dems.

Here's an except from the Socialist Party's history (from the National web site)

In 1932 the impact of the Great Depression resulted in revived support for the Socialist Party, and 896,000 votes were cast for the Party's Presidential candidate, Norman Thomas. But by 1936 the left-liberal policies of the New Deal took a severe toll. In that year David Dubinsky and other socialist union leaders in New York called on their membership to vote for Roosevelt, and formed the Social Democratic Federation to promote socialism within the ranks of the liberal/labor wing of the Democratic Party. The Socialist Party's vote in 1936 dropped to 185,000, little more than 20% of that of 1932.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:44 pm on Dec. 27, 2001)

[RedCeltic]

Also, this is from the history page from the Democratic Socialists of America.

While neither Socialists nor Communists were able to replicate the electoral successes of the Debsian era, the Socialists were able to attract a million votes for Norman Thomas, their Presidential candidate in 1932. Running in the Democratic primary, the Socialist novelist Upton Sinclair captured the Democratic gubernatorial nomination in California in 1934. And during the "Popular Front" era of the later 1930s, when Communists sought to build a broad-based American movement not so explicitly tied to the Soviet model, the Communists developed a considerable political base and measure of influence within the Democratic Party in such states as Washington, Minnesota, and California, and in the American Labor Party in New York. The Thirties did not usher in "the Revolution," contrary to the expectations of many at the start of the decade. Nevertheless, much had changed for the better in American politics in the space of a few years. While Franklin Roosevelt's administration was never the hotbed of radicalism it was portrayed as in right-wing propaganda, it is certainly true that radicals helped play midwife at the birth of the liberal-labor "New Deal coalition" that would shape the contours of Democratic Party politics over the next three decades.

[pce]

an interesting sidenote:

during the war, FDR asked hollywood to make a movie that would show the soviets in a good light. all the soviets in the movie were the 'good guys' and friends with the americans. later, during the blacklist era, mcarthy wanted all the people involved in making the movie investigated as communists - even though FDR himself had asked for the film to be made!

[I Will Deny You]

Thousands of communists came to Texas about 1-2 decades before the Civil War to start communes. They ended up failing, but the first communes in the western world were in George W. Bush's home state.

[El Commandante]

RedC thanks for the information that you gave, that's just the kind of information that I was looking for to show my history teacher and hopefully get her to admit that FDR was in fact a socialist, cheers.

[Kez]

Roosevelt was Marx compared to bastard Truman or Chruchill,
Roosevelt and Stalin, i think at Yalta decided to give the Van area of eastern Turkey back to the armenian soviet socialist republic, BUT FUCKUP Churchill said no, either churchill or Truman later on, the motherfuckers.

comrade kamo

[RedCeltic]

Yea I suppose you could say the US was leaning farther left in those days than the UK... but swung the other way while the UK became more progressive.

Also, sadly... today FDR would be unelectable. Considering that presidential elections are a popularity contest... the American public would not elect a man in a wheel chair. Because TV wasn't invented yet... no one knew.

Also in considering if FDR was a socialist or not, one has to look at the achievements of his wife Elenoir Roosevelt as well. She was at the forfront of many humaniterian efforts, and was even the founder of the United Nations.



(Edited by RedCeltic at 9:08 am on Dec. 28, 2001)

[El Commandante]

I read that the media knew all about FDR's disability but because they had such a good understanding with him they agreed to keep it secret. And he did a lot to hide it, such as having his leg braces painted black, having his presidential car go up ramps and then talk out of the back of it and have his meetings seated. But I agree that now with the state that presidential elections are in he wouldn't be elected, it's such a popularity contest and who can afford the biggest campaign.

E. Roosevelt was truely a great lady as you said RC, she made a lot of the bills that FDR passed, did a lot of civil rights campaigning, humanitarian work and also helped other females in government positions like Francis Perkins. As FDR said, his wife and himself were a two for one deal.

[Reuben]

I was telling my history, (who is right wing but very nice and willing to debate stuff,) about this conversation. She admitted that he probably was, and I qted el comandante regarding how good iit would be for the American people to know that ther country was saved by a socialist. She said however that there was a theory that he was a fascist (doesn't sound very believable given the civil rights bills he passed).

I was wondering, though, how it was that such a liberal/left wing president did so little to take in refugees from the Nazi genocide?

Any ideas?

[Kez]

maybe to not let the opportunity for the right to give him grief?

comrade kamo

[peaccenicked]

Not according to the isolationists.

FRANKLIN D

Franklin D., listen to me
You ain't gonna send me 'cross the sea.
'Cross the sea, 'cross the sea
You ain't gonna send me 'cross the sea.

You may say it's for defense
But that kinda talk that I'm against.
I'm against, I'm against,
That kinda talk ain't got no sense.

Lafayette, we are here,
We're gonna stay right over here
Over here, over here,
We're gonna stay right over here.

Marcantonio is the best,
But I wouldn't give a nickel for all the rest.
All the rest, all the rest,
I wouldn't give a nickel for all the rest.

J. P. Morgan's big and plump,
Eighty-four inches around the rump.
Around the rump, around the rump,
Eighty-four inches around the rump.

Wendell Wilkie and Franklin D.,
Seems to me they both agree,
Both agree, both agree,
Both agree on killin' me.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Reuben on 1:09 am on Jan. 26, 2002
I was wondering, though, how it was that such a liberal/left wing president did so little to take in refugees from the Nazi genocide?That's why my grandmother doesn't like FDR even though it's harder to find someone who is more of a leftist. I think that, being a socialist, there were certain bills that he could pass and certain bills that he couldn't, etc. A lot of the social programs he started, he could put a spin on. However, letting my great-aunt into the country is not as easy to make an excuse for as creating new jobs in national parks would be. I think he tried, but he knew if he went too far he'd be thrown out.

[El Brujo]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 9:04 pm on Dec. 28, 2001
Roosevelt was Marx compared to bastard Truman or Chruchill,
Roosevelt and Stalin, i think at Yalta decided to give the Van area of eastern Turkey back to the armenian soviet socialist republic, BUT FUCKUP Churchill said no, either churchill or Truman later on, the motherfuckers.

comrade kamo


Churchill and Truman were good friends with Francisco Franco. Nuff said.