What's with the -ite suffix?

[John Nada]

Kautskyite, Trotskyite, Cliffite, Titoite, ect. It sounds like names for minerals, insects, or lost tribes of Israel. Who made it up first? Why no Leninites or Maoites?

[Wonton Carter]

From what I understand, it's more used as a disparaging suffix when compared to the -ist suffix. So, more of a dickwaving, "doohoo i'm better and more revolutionary than you" than anything substantial. I've never seen it used in leftist political discourse in an nondisparaging manner, if even only slightly.

[Sinister Intents]

I'm not exactly sure at all, but I'd the suffix "-ite" has to do with it relating or pertaining to someone or something.

[Redistribute the Rep]

I'll be the first to call myself a Lenninite

[Sinister Intents]

Marxian Kropotkinite

[flaming bolshevik]

Anarchite

[bropasaran]

Kropotkinite
Capitalist Superman, beware.

[Baracko Marx]

Workers of the world, unite!

[RedAnarchist]

I've always seen the "-ite" as a way of describing someone who follows a person rather than an idea. This is where the disparaging part comes in - it's basically saying someone is a groupie of a specific leftist figure.

[Q]

From what I understand, it's more used as a disparaging suffix when compared to the -ist suffix. So, more of a dickwaving, "doohoo i'm better and more revolutionary than you" than anything substantial. I've never seen it used in leftist political discourse in an nondisparaging manner, if even only slightly.
Yes, could someone explain to me the etymological reasoning here? I've never understood why "Trotskyite" is somehow demeaning. I'm sure this has to do with me not being a native English speaker.

[Sentinel]

Yes, could someone explain to me the etymological reasoning here? I've never understood why "Trotskyite" is somehow demeaning. I'm sure this has to do with me not being a native English speaker.

I've been wondering about this sometimes as well. It's a mystery for me, nonetheless I remember being annoyed about the -ite ending being applied to myself..

I think RedAnarchist might be onto something in his post, but as another non native english speaker, I don't know for not sure either.

[The Idler]

Ite is regarded as completely unthinking support like a pop music group fan. Ist isn't as bad but is still less than critical in my opinion. So I'm not a Marxite, and it would probably better to say Marxian than Marxist.

[bropasaran]

Trotskyite
Trotskyist
Trotskian

What a choice.

Or maybe the convention of labeling ourselves after people should be left to fall into history together with organized religion.

(Yes, the title beneath my username is sarcastic)

[TC]

My sense is that, the suffixes -ite, -ist, and -ian all have the same meaning (a follower or adherent of a certain position) but have different connotations, though those connotations are not dispositive.

-ist has the connotation of a *political partisan* of a political movement, whereas -ian has the connotation of someone who adopts only the theoretical, moral, or belief system elements of a position without being a political partisan of it. Thus, a member of a communist party is a Marxist, as is a paper on Marx's theory of history - but someone who adopts historical materialism and Marx's labor theory of value, but does not accept socialist revolution, is Marxian but not Marxist.

Similarly, a Christian is a religious believer in Christianity regardless of politics, but a Christianist is someone who wants Christianity to *determine* the political order (just as an Islamist is someone who wants Islam to determine the political order).

However this is a connotation not a fixed or general rule - a Buddhist is not a theocrat who accepts the teachings of the Buddha but simply someone who follows the teachings of the Buddha. This may be simply because Buddhist sounds better than "Buddhaian".

-ite is used interchangeably with "ist" but is more often used for people affiliated with particular political leaders rather than larger ideologies. Thus, the terms in British bourgeois politics are always Thatherite, Blairite, Brownite, - and on the left, Cliffite, Shachtmanite, Marcyite - never Blairist, Cliffist, Marcyist, etc.

Though there are exceptions - such as Israelite, Mennonite, Canaanite,

Perhaps Trotskyite is mildly condescending whereas Trotskyist is polite because to call Trotsky's followers Trotskyites is to place Trotsky as a peer to people like Shachtman, Cliff, and Marcy, simply the leader of a political tendency, whereas to call them Trotskyists is to place *Trotskyism* as a broader ideological position parallel to Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, etc.

But again this is at the level of connotation and convention, not definition. Definitionally they are the same meaning.

[Devrim]

I've been wondering about this sometimes as well. It's a mystery for me, nonetheless I remember being annoyed about the -ite ending being applied to myself..

So it annoyed you even though you had no idea at all what it meant. Don't you think that is a little absurd?

Devrim

[John Nada]

What provoked my question was that in "Socialism and Colonial Policy", Kautsky quotes a revisionist, who called the relatively anti-imperialist Kautsky supporters Kautskyites. Basically RedAnarchist's definition.

Later in about 1916, Lenin calls appeasers to nationalism Kautskyites or Plekhanovites. Basically Wonton Carter's definition. Before this Lenin just uses -ist or plural -s, as far as I know.


Perhaps Trotskyite is mildly condescending whereas Trotskyist is polite because to call Trotsky's followers Trotskyites is to place Trotsky as a peer to people like Shachtman, Cliff, and Marcy, simply the leader of a political tendency, whereas to call them Trotskyists is to place *Trotskyism* as a broader ideological position parallel to Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, etc.I think Stalin was the first to use Trotskyite. Near as I can tell because it rhymed with Kautskyite.

It'd be interesting to know what -ite is in German or Russian. It might just be the translator. If not than these things seem to be the earliest usage of -ite as a slur in a Marxist sense. Marx and Engels only seem to have used it for Luddite, though I'm not sure if it is related to the three example.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I've always seen the "-ite" as a way of describing someone who follows a person rather than an idea. This is where the disparaging part comes in - it's basically saying someone is a groupie of a specific leftist figure.

Yeah but 'Trotskyite' is always hilarious and always appropriate. Always.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

So it annoyed you even though you had no idea at all what it meant. Don't you think that is a little absurd?

Devrim

I think having a basic understanding of whatever is irrelevant in terms of what's offensive or annoying. There is a great number if things I don't like for no reason whatsover. I have no idea why and I may not know fully what it is but I am very confident that I don't like it. Seems pretty sensible to me.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

-ite can also be a diminutive

add to the already-stated definition as 'groupie/follower of a person'

So it's a suffix that can be used to express condescension, but not always, depends on context, and the idea that the subject is naive

[John Nada]

-ite can also be a diminutive

add to the already-stated definition as 'groupie/follower of a person'

So it's a suffix that can be used to express condescension, but not always, depends on context, and the idea that the subject is naive

Interesting. So it might be like saying "little Trotskys". I just thought that it was kind of strange. I only really heard it in the Bible, geology, from Marxist, and Paulites who've visited the Opposing Ideology forum. Maybe a regional dialect thing?

A Marxist geologist should definitely name a new mineral trotskyite, particularly if it's discovered in an arctic region or Mexico.;)

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Little Trotskys could be a band name.