leaked un climate report: 75 percent of reserves must stay in ground

[bcbm]

http://bakken.com/news/id/220427/leaked-u-n-climate-report-75-percent-reserves-must-stay-ground/

[The Feral Underclass]

We're all fucking doomed.

Hopefully I'll be dead...This is a strong case not to have children. I don't want those poor fucking bastards dealing with this shit.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

We're all fucking doomed.

Hopefully I'll be dead...This is a strong case not to have children. I don't want those poor fucking bastards dealing with this shit.

Every dark cloud has a silver lining. As disastrous and as it is, I can easily imgine global warming leading to a socialist revolution. Remember the class conflict caused by Hurricane Katrina? What if that started happening every day, all over the world?

I hope to be alive so I can help stir the pot and put an end to the system that enabled this train wreck once and for all!:laugh:

[bcbm]

Every dark cloud has a silver lining. As disastrous and as it is, I can easily imgine global warming leading to a socialist revolution. Remember the class conflict caused by Hurricane Katrina? What if that started happening every day, all over the world?

I hope to be alive so I can help stir the pot and put an end to the system that enabled this train wreck once and for all!:laugh:

so we can have a socialist revolution a destablize an already precarious food/general situation and....? yeah good times

[Lord Testicles]

Ah, we'll be fine. You can all stop wetting your beds already.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

http://bakken.com/news/id/220427/leaked-u-n-climate-report-75-percent-reserves-must-stay-ground/

Conspiracy theory. Move to chit chat.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

so we can have a socialist revolution a destablize an already precarious food/general situation and....? yeah good times

Obviously revolutionary cannibalism is the answer.

I mean, yeah, the socialist revolution won't be a walk in the park, but so what? What do you suggest, we keep our heads down and pray for a green capitalism? I'm having a hard time believing that you do. But that's how it looks.

[DOOM]

Obviously revolutionary cannibalism is the answer.

I mean, yeah, the socialist revolution won't be a walk in the park, but so what? What do you suggest, we keep our heads down and pray for a green capitalism? I'm having a hard time believing that you do. But that's how it looks.

Coffee without caffeine, burgers without fat, cheap clothes without child labor, revolution without revolution.
Liberal mindset, I guess

[Rafiq]

so we can have a socialist revolution a destablize an already precarious food/general situation and....? yeah good times

The situation is going to be destabilized very soon with or without a revolution.

[bcbm]

I mean, yeah, the socialist revolution won't be a walk in the park, but so what? What do you suggest, we keep our heads down and pray for a green capitalism? I'm having a hard time believing that you do. But that's how it looks.

green capitalism? lol. ride the wave man

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rd0WHIPA3wU/TlsLY0UKp3I/AAAAAAAAAwo/FWd6VmqRJpo/s1600/skyline.png


The situation is going to be destabilized very soon with or without a revolution.

no doubt.

[Rss]

Doomers have been saying that we are all doomed since, well, forever. Can any knowledgeable comrade tell me where do we really stand in this? On the other hand, I've read about articles about very promising renewable energy sources and then there are articles like this. How come big name climate researchers do not come forward and say; "If we don't stop this shit, we are all fucking dead. End of."?

[Zukunftsmusik]

Liberal mindset, I guess

lol I think bcbm is the last to have a 'liberal mindset'.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Doomers have been saying that we are all doomed since, well, forever. Can any knowledgeable comrade tell me where do we really stand in this? On the other hand, I've read about articles about very promising renewable energy sources and then there are articles like this. How come big name climate researchers do not come forward and say; "If we don't stop this shit, we are all fucking dead. End of."?

Look at the first sentence of your post for the answer to your question. The 'apocalyptic' effects of climate change are still a few decades off, no one wants to be the unemployed doomsayer in the meantime. In spite of that, clearly some academics are tying to tell people what they need to hear, otherwise these reports wouldn't need to be leaked before being edited to the point that they become useless, right?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Doomers have been saying that we are all doomed since, well, forever. Can any knowledgeable comrade tell me where do we really stand in this? On the other hand, I've read about articles about very promising renewable energy sources and then there are articles like this. How come big name climate researchers do not come forward and say; "If we don't stop this shit, we are all fucking dead. End of."?

Read the executive summary of the 2006 Stern Report:

http://www.wwf.se/source.php/1169157/Stern%20Report_Exec%20Summary.pdf

Although it's not got the best name because it was essentially a political piece commissioned by Tony Blair's New Labour government (not a name you want to be associated with if you are going for the 'accurate facts' sort of angle), it does essentially arrive at the correct conclusions, if over-stating them for political purposes at some stages.

But do have a quick read, it gives you the essential arguments, economic and science to get you up to speed on the issue of climate change.

[bcbm]

Doomers have been saying that we are all doomed since, well, forever. Can any knowledgeable comrade tell me where do we really stand in this?

climate change looks to be devastating and civilization altering. in all likelihood we have passed some important 'tipping points' and if we do not take drastic action soon things are going to be much worse.


On the other hand, I've read about articles about very promising renewable energy sources renewable couldn't sustain our current level of energy usage, and the dirty energy input required to create them would add to the problem.


and then there are articles like this. How come big name climate researchers do not come forward and say; "If we don't stop this shit, we are all fucking dead. End of."? um they pretty much are and have been for some time.


The head of the IPCC, Rajendra Pachauri, speaks for the scientific consensus when he says that time is fast running out to avoid the catastrophic collapse of the natural systems on which human life depends. What he recently told a group of climate scientist could be the most chilling headline of all for the U.N. report (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warming-is-very-real-20130912):

"We have five minutes before midnight."

[Lord Testicles]

climate change looks to be devastating and civilization altering. in all likelihood we have passed some important 'tipping points' and if we do not take drastic action soon things are going to be much worse.

What drastic actions would you suggest?

[bcbm]

What drastic actions would you suggest?

making massive cuts in carbon emissions, both by switching what can be switched to cleaner power sources and reducing emissions sources in a very broad way. this would obviously require the entire reorganization of the economy and a lot of changes in production, etc. ain't gonna happen with capitalism.

oh and we should start seriously working on getting into space and colonizing it.

[Lord Testicles]

Ain't is different from can't and there is no reason why capitalism can't do any of the actions you have mentioned. Yeah, it might inconvenience sections of the capitalist class (those who peddle fossil fuels come to mind) but it would also benefit other sections as well, like those who own renewable energy companies or own land.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Honestly it seems more likely that a 'solution' under capitalism will be safe green zones carved out for some people, while the rest of the population is left to rot in uninhabitable red zones. Technology can be leveraged against global warming to some extent, but not for the entire planet, and not as a permanent solution.

[bcbm]

Ain't is different from can't

yes. this is why i used the contraction 'aint' instead of the contraction 'cant.'


and there is no reason why capitalism can't do any of the actions you have mentioned.

we're nearing/passing tipping points quite rapidly in the last decade with worse than expected consequences already developing and the response has been basically 'meh.' a switch to more green sources has no real potential in many areas; locally our energy company just changed its policies to discourage green and favor coal and other 'dirty' energy sources. this is in a supposedly progressive area, imagine what this means elsewhere. by the completely reorganization of production i mean reorganizing in such a way as to be sustainable and favorable to humanity and i think it goes without saying this isn't on the horizon from capitalists. obviously the 'green' sector is growing and being adopted in some ways but the general trend is to pump (pun intended) as much as possible out of the current arrangement and cope as needed with the disastrous effects.


Yeah, it might inconvenience sections of the capitalist class (those who peddle fossil fuels come to mind) but it would also benefit other sections as well, like those who own renewable energy companies or own land.

these aren't different entities. the big fossil fuel companies are devoting a lot of attention to energy alternatives. sell the problem, then the solution.

[bcbm]

Honestly it seems more likely that a 'solution' under capitalism will be safe green zones carved out for some people, while the rest of the population is left to rot in uninhabitable red zones. Technology can be leveraged against global warming to some extent, but not for the entire planet, and not as a permanent solution.

yeah this is basically what i see happening.

[Lord Testicles]

we're nearing/passing tipping points quite rapidly in the last decade with worse than expected consequences already developing

Can I get more information regarding these tipping points?

This article (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21729070.200-time-to-forget-global-tipping-points.html) suggests that the idea of a global tipping point is erroneous.


these aren't different entities. the big fossil fuel companies are devoting a lot of attention to energy alternatives. sell the problem, then the solution.

Whilst this is true in some cases it's not true in all. I don't now about America but in Britain there are some energy companies that trade exclusively or mostly in renewable energy. I don't think it's correct to paint all capitalists as pro-fossil fuel or anti-green. Take Prince Charles for example, he's a big "green" supporter and who'd blame him when the crown is making such a killing from wind farms and it would definitely be in his interest for renewable energy to have a larger market share.

While it's tempting to view capitalists are one large entity, I think the reality is more complex and nuanced than that.

[vijaya]

I don't think it's worth getting apocalyptic about it; the majority of climactic or other crises our species have faced have been overcome by social/economic/biological adaption.

However, the global crisis of climate change is particularly frightening because, not only will it change our societies fundamentally and forseeably kill many people, but it'll come along with a host of other simmering problems; severe inequality, technological revolutions (automation etc) causing widespread unemployment, local identity crises, collapse of American imperial-international order, unionised Third World workforces, marine extinctions due to over-fishing, other extinctions, food shortages due to a whole load of reasons other than climate change, terrorism, civil unrest, racial tension, religious fundamentalism, general resource shortages, fresh water shortages etc etc etc

It's terrifying just to be living now, in the early days of Zizek's 'end times', never mind in the potentially fully pledged ecocidal dystopia of Anno 2070, but we'll make the changes needed to avoid annihilation, hopefully. Socialism or barbarism and all that.

[bcbm]

Can I get more information regarding these tipping points?

basically just means if we get x amount of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere we can expect these things to happen. not 'past this one point we are doomed'


Whilst this is true in some cases it's not true in all. I don't now about America but in Britain there are some energy companies that trade exclusively or mostly in renewable energy. I don't think it's correct to paint all capitalists as pro-fossil fuel or anti-green. Take Prince Charles for example, he's a big "green" supporter and who'd blame him when the crown is making such a killing from wind farms and it would definitely be in his interest for renewable energy to have a larger market share.

While it's tempting to view capitalists are one large entity, I think the reality is more complex and nuanced than that.

yes, i wasn't suggesting that all capitalists think alike or that there aren't 'green' capitalists. my point was the fossil fuel industry isn't terribly inconvenienced, it is investing in other technologies.

[Lord Testicles]

basically just means if we get x amount of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere we can expect these things to happen. not 'past this one point we are doomed'

I know what you're saying, I'm just asking for information regarding it. You state that "we're nearing/passing tipping points quite rapidly in the last decade" and I want to know what tipping points? When did we pass them or are going to pass them? & what are the most likely outcomes?

[bcbm]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/10/10/environment/earths-climate-change-tipping-point-to-start-in-2020-new-model-predicts/#.VAkkPGcg_IU

[Luís Henrique]

lol I think bcbm is the last to have a 'liberal mindset'.

The problem is not whether we have a liberal mindset, but whether the liberal mindset "has" us.

Luís Henrique

[Zukunftsmusik]

What's your point?

[Luís Henrique]

What's your point?

That a liberal mindset isn't an individual issue.

(And, indeed, believing that it is is part of the liberal mindset.)

Luís Henrique

[bcbm]

is keeping aware of scientific developments that concern human society 'liberal?'

[The Intransigent Faction]

I've seen some conservatives use this as an excuse to say "Well, we're fucked anyway, might as well ignore environmentalists and keep on polluting!"

I hope that mindset doesn't resonate with most people. If revolution is going to be the response to this issue, though, it will have to be in our lifetimes. Maybe in a communist society technology will be developed to undo damage currently thought to be irreparable, but I wouldn't assume that or even count it as likely, and it would still have to happen before too much shit hits the fan. I suppose adapting to the damage wouldn't be impossible, but limiting irreparable damage in the first place would be preferable.