Is Marxist-Leninism bureaucratic?

[Red Star Rising]

I have heard a lot about the USSR being intensely bureaucratic. And apparently Che Guevara criticized the USSR for being bureaucratic. Is Marxist-Leninism just this way necessarily or did something happen in the Soviet Union which made the system fail?

[RedMaterialist]

I have heard a lot about the USSR being intensely bureaucratic. And apparently Che Guevara criticized the USSR for being bureaucratic. Is Marxist-Leninism just this way necessarily or did something happen in the Soviet Union which made the system fail?

It was necessary. Modern, monopolistic, imperialistic capitalism is a gigantic bureaucracy. Any economic system which develops out of it must necessarily have the characteristics and tendencies of a giant bureaucracy. The fully developed corporation in the west, for instance, Walmart or Microsoft, is intensely bureaucratic.

An economy of small, individually owned businesses or farms produces a limited, decentralized govt, as in the petit-bourgeois U.S. in the early 19th century. When the economy becomes centralized, consolidated, gigantic and bureaucratic, then the govt does the same. It's a perfect example of historical materialism. The mode of production determines the social superstructure, in this case, the form of the state.

Once capitalism is fully under control of the state, and then society, then the bureaucracy can be dismantled.

[Wht.Rex]

Not really, there were government institutions that had necessary bureaucracy, but today it is much stronger than how it was back then. I recently left security company which had ridiculous bureaucracy, had to write paper for every action you made. Strong bureaucracy is sign for bad/dying organization, exactly what USSR was in its last years.

[Five Year Plan]

If you have a governing apparatus confined to a single territory distinct from other territories, it is going to have to engage in commodity production marked by value relations. This necessarily means the existence of hierarchical political relationships premised on economic power outside of democratic control. Or as Marxists call it, bureaucracy. To answer your question, yes, the USSR was always 'bureaucratic' and never achieved communism.

[Red Star Rising]

Not really, there were government institutions that had necessary bureaucracy, but today it is much stronger than how it was back then. I recently left security company which had ridiculous bureaucracy, had to write paper for every action you made. Strong bureaucracy is sign for bad/dying organization, exactly what USSR was in its last years.

That's true. The NHS in the UK now has qualified doctors handling paperwork and waiting room questionnaires. Plus the sly privatization under the coalition has made it weaker than ever.

So much for massive bureaucracy being a failing Socialism.

[RedWorker]

I have heard a lot about the USSR being intensely bureaucratic. And apparently Che Guevara criticized the USSR for being bureaucratic. Is Marxist-Leninism just this way necessarily or did something happen in the Soviet Union which made the system fail?

Marxism-Leninism is Stalinism - a term created by Stalin to promote his doctrine in the time when there was still opposition, meanwhile branding the opposition Trotskyist, leftist, etc. -, and precisely bureaucracy was one of the issues which divided Stalin and his bureaucratic, power-hungry supporters and the opposition. Stalin and his excessive authoritarianism were eventually removed - but effectively, his actual political ideology remained.


Not really, there were government institutions that had necessary bureaucracy, but today it is much stronger than how it was back then. I recently left security company which had ridiculous bureaucracy, had to write paper for every action you made. Strong bureaucracy is sign for bad/dying organization, exactly what USSR was in its last years.

Here, bureaucracy means "rule by unelected officials", not too much paperwork.

[Red Star Rising]

Here, bureaucracy means "rule by unelected officials", not too much paperwork.

The USSR was pretty much both.

[Red Star Rising]

Is there no way that Marxist-Leninism can be democratic? Most of you seem to think that a bureaucratic hierarchy is necessary in Marxist-Leninism but doesn't that lead to perpetuating dictatorship and prevent the withering of the state?

[Alexios]

Is there no way that Marxist-Leninism can be democratic? Most of you seem to think that a bureaucratic hierarchy is necessary in Marxist-Leninism but doesn't that lead to perpetuating dictatorship and prevent the withering of the state?

Marxism-Leninism doesn't exist anymore, and everywhere that it has existed historically has never had democracy. I'm not understanding the point of the question.

[RedMaterialist]

Is there no way that Marxist-Leninism can be democratic? Most of you seem to think that a bureaucratic hierarchy is necessary in Marxist-Leninism but doesn't that lead to perpetuating dictatorship and prevent the withering of the state?

The dictatorship will continue until the capitalist class is completely suppressed (world-wide,) peacefully, one hopes. Once the suppression is complete then there will be no need for a state to suppress or exploit any class. The state will then wither away and die.

[RedMaterialist]

Marxism-Leninism doesn't exist anymore, and everywhere that it has existed historically has never had democracy. I'm not understanding the point of the question.

A dictatorship is, by definition, not a democracy, and there has never been a "democratic" state. Marxism-Leninism will not only do away with the state, but also with democracy, which is also ruling state, a state ruled by the "people." There will be no ruling state of any kind under communism.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Marxism-Leninism doesn't exist anymore, and everywhere that it has existed historically has never had democracy. I'm not understanding the point of the question.

Agreed. Marxism still lives. Leninism, in many ways, still lives.

But Marxism-Leninism? It's deader than disco (and deservedly so).

[#FF0000]

I have heard a lot about the USSR being intensely bureaucratic. And apparently Che Guevara criticized the USSR for being bureaucratic. Is Marxist-Leninism just this way necessarily or did something happen in the Soviet Union which made the system fail?
I think "The Russian Revolution" would be a helpful read for you on this question.

[motion denied]

About bureaucracy in early Soviet State, the Workers' Opposition platform (http://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1921/workers-opposition/) might be interesting..

[Wht.Rex]

Here, bureaucracy means "rule by unelected officials", not too much paperwork.

Yeap, a.k.a aristrocracy. It is just birth-death cycle of organizations. First sign of dying organization is when organization's highest ranks are taken by "best workers" and not by competent specialists. Second stage is bureaucracy and then post-bureaucracy.

[Skyhilist]

It's not supposed to be but it always is.