Ending white supremacy

[StreetsRunRed]

I would like to hear some ideas on how we can end white supremacy in the world. I've come to think that as long as white people insist on having white children the system will just keep existing and perpetuating. How can we convince white people to let go of the world and let POC live and breathe of their own accord? Does anyone have links to any effective propaganda involving dismantling white supremacy and dominion?

[Creative Destruction]

lol

If we're talking about an international scale, people of color (as we know non-white folks in the states, but this is an incredibly U.S.- and [possibly] Euro-centric label) outnumber whites, so it isn't about making white people stop having children. Further, as we know through our apparent experience with capitalists, having a minority of x-type of person doesn't necessarily equate to proportional political power.

[maratonci]

all racism is coming from ruling class (from billionaires that finance political parties), fascism and racism will exists as long as capitalism exists.

Their power is money that gives them political influence. The aim of racism is continuation of slavery, slavery is abolished on the paper but not in reality.

Even today, wife of Axel Springer is in party of Angela Merkel and Axel profited from slaves in the time of Hitler.
Beside colonial racism which misuse human rights to colonize other countries, there is and economic racism. Today, many Romanians and Bulgarians and Africans are exploited in Europe, even if they find job, they don’t get salary. They are cheated by western people very often. If you come from London, you will be respected and paid, if you come from East Europe, western people will exploit you and never accept you as equal (in accordance with history, they tried to enslave east europe in the past).
Beside it, governments in Poland and Romania sell themselves to the western/American politicians and bankers, so, their people in the west are not protected from fascism but beside it, very often their people participate in making shit for immigrants. how_ well, western secret service give them money for that, they can't spy Romanians when they don't speak Romanians, they must corrupt people between Romanians. Fascists like to find traitors among immigrants, they need them to get information what we are doing and to make shit for us. Fascists have money and it is not problem for them to buy some poor idiot who is hungry for money.

They will never, but NEVER, give equality to Polish, Romanians and Bulgarians, about salary or simple about being accepted in society. Many people from my country who work 40 years in the West don’t have western friends, they can be friends with Yugoslavians, Russians, Polish, etc. That’s racism which stayed after Hitler and Mussolini lost war, if leaders are dead, system is not dead. Financiers of fascists survived and system that worked for them (police, prosecutors, secret service, teachers, doctors, etc). Consequently, they hide their opinion after war, they kept important position in society and they continued to realize fascism hiddenly.

In the history, fascist pyramide was like this: serbian village (victims) – Chetniks (nazi collaborators) – German soldiers – Hitler – German riches who financed him and profited from him.
Today it is: immigrants (victims) – racists – state departments (police and judicial system – secret service – politicians) – riches.
Before and now, on the top of fascist pyramid is fascist aristocracy, rich billionaires, they are served by politicians and the whole system under politicians.

Most ordinary people who are racists, and those in hospitals and schools and police and court house that discriminate you, are in fact people who work for secret service. Security sector that is outsourced to private companies like G4S is also part of racist machinery. The main machine for making racism real, it is secret service, but the root of racism are rich people.
Slavery is abolished theoretically on the paper, but racism and discrimination allow them to exploit people, it is common, widespread, that many immigrants don’t get money (or get very small money) for work they have done. It is social accepted to exploit people, to hate them and to make shit for them, secret service took care about that, with their journalists and other fascists. The main aim of racism is making profit; you can be sure that rich people stand behind idea of profit.

And of course, I should not forget hypocritical pigs like Angela Merkel, and she is not the only one. She is sorry for dead Jewish just because they are rich, potential investors, in other case, she would not give a shit how many of them died. Hypocritical pigs speak against Hitler, but they hunt immigrants the same like Hitler, they make paranoia about us, they produce hate against us, they imprison people on the basis of color of skin, they deport people just because they have dark skin … only Auschwitz is missing. Of course, they kiss in ass rich dictators from Africa, capitalism and fascism are always together. Rich pigs respect each others, they exploit and deport poor people. As I said, the main aim of racism is economic exploitation, profit, they can’t exploit rich man than poor men. Slavery is abolished on the paper but it is alive in reality, that’s need of rich people, politicians kiss rich people in the ass and make the law for them: make immigrants illegal = produce slaves for rich people.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Just removed a tonne of one-liners. For frig's sake y'all - I see the angle some of you were going for, but if you can't invest five-ten minutes in a real response, just keep it to yourself or start a chitchat thread. Cripes.

[StreetsRunRed]

all racism is coming from ruling class (

Stopped reading right there. Racism is coming from white people and only white people. I can't stand white apologists.

[Hagalaz]

Stopped reading right there. Racism is coming from white people and only white people. I can't stand white apologists.


Do you really believe that only whites can be racist? Really?

[Slavic]

Stopped reading right there. Racism is coming from white people and only white people. I can't stand white apologists.


Yup, no racism any where else in the world unless there are white people there. Are you fucking joking?

Racism exists everywhere, what you are probably thinking about is structural racism where racism is embedded in the fabric of the state. Since white people have generally been at the helm of powerful states, it is easy to see how white people can be blamed for a lot of structural racism.

But to just flat out say, "Nah man only White people can be racist, because white people" Is fucking stupid.

[TC]

I would like to hear some ideas on how we can end white supremacy in the world.

How are you defining white supremacy?

A disproportionate number of the most powerful people (though ironically not the two most powerful people) are white, but would the system be more just to the rest of they were more diverse?

But really, lets start the conversation with more specificity about what you're talking about.


I've come to think that as long as white people insist on having white children the system will just keep existing and perpetuating.

Why and how? You think the mere existence of white children creates white supremacy? Or, if not, how do they feed into "the system" - what is "the system" and how does it work?


How can we convince white people to let go of the world

White people have the world? All white people or some white people? All the world or some of the world? What are you really arguing here?


and let POC live and breathe of their own accord?

I presume you're not speaking literally - what do you mean by this?



Does anyone have links to any effective propaganda involving dismantling white supremacy and dominion?

I would start by developing what you're talking about more specifically because "white supremacy" can have numerous diverse meanings.

[#FF0000]

this is honestly the most blatant troll account i've seen in awhile.

i mean i know we try to be nice to new people who are dumb and don't know anything but come on guys.

[Hexen]

But to just flat out say, "Nah man only White people can be racist, because white people" Is fucking stupid.

I don't think it is, because white people benefit from institutionalized racism.

[#FF0000]

I don't think it is, because white people benefit from institutionalized racism.

yeah but I think Slavic is saying you gotta include that when you're talking about it and can't just say "cuz white people"

[Deep Sea]

I would like to hear some ideas on how we can end white supremacy in the world.

Erasing the white identity.

[Hexen]

yeah but I think Slavic is saying you gotta include that when you're talking about it and can't just say "cuz white people"

The "cuz white people" is rather a rush to explain institutionalized racism in a interchangeable way.

[leontrosky]

Teach kids the evils of racism.

[Slavic]

I don't think it is, because white people benefit from institutionalized racism.


To follow up. Benefiting from a corrupt system indirectly does not mean support of said system. If such were true, then I'm just a racist, sexist, capitalist by virtue of my birth and continued existence.

Not to mention the institutionalized racism that can be found in predominantly non-white countries such as China, India, and Japan to name a few.

[Krasnyymir]

Stopped reading right there. Racism is coming from white people and only white people. I can't stand white apologists.

This is both one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen, as well as one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen...

How would you explain racism in Japan, for example, which is not just an extremely racist country, but also one of the most homogenous ethnically speaking.

Or racism in the Arab world, where racist opinions aren't just common today, but we're also common a long time before any Western influence.

The word for an African person for example is "Abd" which also means "slave" in Arabic. It's one of the current legacies of the history of slave trade, which goes back over a thousand years in the Arab world.

Blaming "instutionalized racism" for all the ills of the world, is ironically a supremely Eurocentric, ignorant and racist view of the world. Completely ignoring the fact that most of the world ISNT white, and is neither exposed nor interested in American/European culture. And surprise! Is perfectly capable of disliking and hating all on their own.

[TC]

this is honestly the most blatant troll account i've seen in awhile.

i mean i know we try to be nice to new people who are dumb and don't know anything but come on guys.

I initially liked this, because I thought the OP was being trollish.

...but now that I think more about it, I think we should all be a little more restrained in thinking someone is trolling. The fact is that people come here with differing abilities to express themselves (either in English or at all) - and from different political, intellectual and social traditions. Often people post things using phrases that they mistakenly believe will plug into a shared understanding here, when it just doesn't. Thats why I hoped to get the OP to clarify what they were saying.

I think it would be great if we could try to assume the best and offer generous interpretations of new posters rather than judging them so quickly. If someone is making obviously stupid comments it doesn't help anything to just point it out.

Now...have to try to follow my own advice on this :p

[TC]

Do you really believe that only whites can be racist? Really?


I don't think it is, because white people benefit from institutionalized racism.

A couple of thoughts:

1. Its clear that the racism of certain institutions (such as most urban police forces and the targeted enforcement of the war on drugs) directly harms black and Latino people in America today.

But its not clear how this confers any meaningful benefit on white Americans generally. Putting lots of young black men in prison helps *some* white (and non-white) Americans, namely the executives of the Corrections Corporation of America and politicians who can win elections through tough on crime rhetoric. Its not clear how this helps most ordinary white americans.

2. You might theorize that jailing lots of black and latino youth helps ordinary white Americans because it reduces competition for jobs. This might be true in some ways but it is not true across the board equally in that the people being jailed at an elevated rate are not just black and latino people evenly distributed throughout the population, but specifically poor black and latino males. This is a population that is for the most part not in competition for professional/managerial class jobs so the people who would indirectly benefit are really working class people. Moreover, the competition reduction benefit would be conferred not only on white people, but on asian people, on women of all races, and on those black and latino men who were not jailed and do not have criminal records. In fact the people who attain the greatest indirect benefit from reduced competition are going to be those most demographically and socially similar to those who are disproportionately imprisoned since they would be the people most directly in competition with them.

3. There is another indirect sort of institutional racism though. Not the institutions that are actively racist today (such as the police) but institutions that were historically racist such as the inherited wealth and multigenerational benefits of living in comparatively affluent places which are legacies of slavery, segregation, and redlining. So this is a differential in wealth (and all the advantages that it confers) that today correllates with race as the result of past institutional racism.

This comes down to not a currently racist system in nay contemporaneously discriminatory way but rather inequalities in wealth between populations on average. But is this what leftists should prioritize when we oppose inequality in wealth generally and do not believe in the legitimacy of inherited wealth generally - especially when inequality in wealth within races is far more dramatic than inequality in wealth between races (as is for example inequality in wealth between the young and old). While it is true that the average white person has more than the average black person - is the average black person's quarrel really with the average white person or with the non-average extraordinarily wealthy person who has magnitudes more than either? And what of the above average wealthy black business person born to upper middle class parents, do they have a complaint against the trailer park resident white highschool dropout who can barely earn enough in three part time jobs to survive?

4. And this racism of institutions and inequality correlating to race must be distinguished from individual/personal bigotry and prejudice according to race. People of all races can express and believe bigoted and prejudicial views including those against white people (the Op's desire to see white people go extinct would be an example!). There is at least a certain amount of animus directed against white people implicit in the idea of a presently existing 'white power structure' where social power from top to bottom and in all levels of society is presumed raced, where all white people are presumed equal beneficiaries and morally corrupted for it, and all non-white people presumed equal victims and morally untainted for it.

5. This model is also only really on point in the United States. In other places such as Brazil and South Africa races are constructed very differently. In places where the ruling class is overwhelmingly non-white there is often racism against people of other ethnicities by the non-white ruling class - such as Yamato Japanese racism against Ainu, Ryukyuan, Koreans and Chinese in Japan, Chinese racism against Indian and Malay people in Singapore, and even arguably racism against white rhodesians in Zimbabwe.

[Krasnyymir]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Its clear that the racism of certain institutions (such as most urban police forces and the targeted enforcement of the war on drugs) directly harms black and Latino people in America today.


The war on drugs is not racist in its origins, it is primarily a warfare that originates and is based in class.
The war on drugs started in the late 60ies and 70ies as a result of middle class pressure, both from black bourgeoisie and white, to crack down on drugs and get them out of their communities. That's also why you until recently had a sentencing disparagement between powder cocaine and crack cocaine.

African-American voters, "preachers" and community activists were so disturbed by the "crack epidemic" that they demanded that "something must be done!" And the head of the house narcotics committee, who was also African American at the time, was only too happy to accommodate them.

And since then, it took on a life on its own, though the effects on the war on drugs are primarily felt by poor people today.

As you yourself said: It doesn't make sense from a racial point of view to have a war targeting a particular race.

But it makes perfect sense from a class perspective: You have a poor underclass that can be used to keep wages low, and at the same time provide a nice helping of middle class jobs in enforcement.

[Zoroaster]

Stopped reading right there. Racism is coming from white people and only white people. I can't stand white apologists.

I hope Huey P. Newton rises from the grave and smacks some sense into you.

[#FF0000]

The war on drugs is not racist in its origins, it is primarily a warfare that originates and is based in class.
The war on drugs started in the late 60ies and 70ies as a result of middle class pressure, both from black bourgeoisie and white, to crack down on drugs and get them out of their communities. That's also why you until recently had a sentencing disparagement between powder cocaine and crack cocaine.

African-American voters, "preachers" and community activists were so disturbed by the "crack epidemic" that they demanded that "something must be done!" And the head of the house narcotics committee, who was also African American at the time, was only too happy to accommodate them.

And since then, it took on a life on its own, though the effects on the war on drugs are primarily felt by poor people today.

As you yourself said: It doesn't make sense from a racial point of view to have a war targeting a particular race.

But it makes perfect sense from a class perspective: You have a poor underclass that can be used to keep wages low, and at the same time provide a nice helping of middle class jobs in enforcement.

Except that this falls down in face of the facts -- law enforcement still specifically targets poor black communities for drug enforcement, despite the fact that drug use between white and black people is roughly the same. In Salt Lake City, law enforcement made it a point to muscle down on crack cocaine in the past few years, while crack makes up less than a quarter (iirc) of estimated drug sales in the city, and in the middle of a heroin and meth epidemic no less.

Of course class is also tied into this, but in the United States, there's an extremely close relationship between class and race. When a policy is expected to have a negative impact on poor Americans, the impact is going to be felt first and hardest in black communities.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

As has been mentioned already, it is unlikely that one person sitting in their basement at their computer is going to magically concoct a brilliant plan for ending white cultural hegemony around the globe.

The dollar is the world currency and standard English is ridiculously widely spoken around the world relative to the amount of 'English-speaking' countries that exist. The scale of this economic, social and cultural hegemony is truly too massive to comprehend, and too deeply embedded in the social fabric of communities across the world to try to take apart in one fell swoop.

I'm a fan of the approach that, white or not, those of us who believe in ending white supremacy take small actions in our own personal lives that back up our philosophical ideas on culture and race. As a teacher, I am lucky to work in a school environment that allows me to provide a space for dialogue with students, as opposed to one that encourages/forces me to establish a socially authoritarian relationship over my students.

This encouragement of dialogue and minimising authoritarian social control by the teacher will allow me to engage in a more critical discussion of larger conceptual ideas, including those of culture, race and so on.

Although this is a political action, I would say that all actions taken in education are political. Sticking to a conservative curriculum and socially authoritarian pedagogy is a choice - a choice to stick to the status quo and endorse white supremacy. By adopting an alternative approach, all I am aiming to do, in my eyes, is support the notion that cultures other than 'white' exist, have made important contributions to culture all over the world, and students deserve to at least be aware of these and be able to engage, critically, with these contributions, and evaluate them on merit, rather than be forced to swallow a one-sided curriculum from an authoritarian professor.

[Deep Sea]

There is no "white" "race." Once you realize that "whiteness" is a socially-constructed identity that only has any real meaning to certain European settler societies, the issue of "racism" takes on a completely different meaning.

What does "racism" have to do with the occupation of Ireland, or the upcoming vote for independence in Scotland, or the past vote for the independence of Quebec? To the 'racialist' ideological framework, they are all "white" and share the same identity, and so these issues make no sense to those who think in 'racial' terms as opposed to 'national' terms.

The problem in certain European settler socities, such as America, is that the self-conception of the national identity is a "racial" identity. That is how the new European nation in America imagined and constructed itself. "Race" was invented by the these very Europeans, not just to justify the slaughter of the indigenous populations and the African slave trade, but to develope a shared national identity. It is how the European settlers created a "We" consciousness amongst themselves.

What makes "racism" a problem, particularly in America, is that, like Czarist Russia, it is a "prison house" of nations. Besides the European settler nation, there is an African nation in the southeast, and Aztland in the southwest, and numerous smaller indigenous nations scattered around. These other nations have no self-determination as nation-states, and are thus subject to the sentiments of dominant European settler nation.

This has a double-sided effect. On the one hand, the self-identification of the European settler nation is founded on a 'racialized' ideology. The European settlers recognize one another as the same on an implicitly 'racial' notion. So the ruling class needs this to hold the European settler nation together. On the other hand, too much racism antagonizes the imprisoned nations, and might eventually lead to wars of national liberation within territorial borders America, so it must also be opposed (as least in excess).

In my opinion, explaining how 'whiteness' is constructed goes a long way allowing people to see how people can be mislead into thinking they have a material stake in various issues.

[RedAnarchist]

Nice try, Stormfront troll.

[theuproar]

I'm a fan of the approach that, white or not, those of us who believe in ending white supremacy take small actions in our own personal lives that back up our philosophical ideas on culture and race. As a teacher, I am lucky to work in a school environment that allows me to provide a space for dialogue with students, as opposed to one that encourages/forces me to establish a socially authoritarian relationship over my students.

This encouragement of dialogue and minimising authoritarian social control by the teacher will allow me to engage in a more critical discussion of larger conceptual ideas, including those of culture, race and so on.

Although this is a political action, I would say that all actions taken in education are political. Sticking to a conservative curriculum and socially authoritarian pedagogy is a choice - a choice to stick to the status quo and endorse white supremacy. By adopting an alternative approach, all I am aiming to do, in my eyes, is support the notion that cultures other than 'white' exist, have made important contributions to culture all over the world, and students deserve to at least be aware of these and be able to engage, critically, with these contributions, and evaluate them on merit, rather than be forced to swallow a one-sided curriculum from an authoritarian professor.

I teach English and ESL at a predominantly non-white school, and I use this approach, as well.

Many have dismissed my personal actions as purely theoretical (wishfully "post-racial"), but I truly think removing race from our daily dialogue is a step toward equality. Language does much to shape our reality. I know it isn't a total fix, but I'm impressed with how different race is viewed by the generation I teach, as opposed to the generation I grew up in.

[theuproar]

But to just flat out say, "Nah man only White people can be racist, because white people" Is fucking stupid.

Agreed, in the regard that much of the argument I see concerning white privilege as a macrocosmic phenomenon is circular. Of course it exists in some institutional settings, but as a permeative feature of life... I would have to disagree.

[The Modern Prometheus]

There is no "white" "race." Once you realize that "whiteness" is a socially-constructed identity that only has any real meaning to certain European settler societies, the issue of "racism" takes on a completely different meaning.

What does "racism" have to do with the occupation of Ireland, or the upcoming vote for independence in Scotland, or the past vote for the independence of Quebec? To the 'racialist' ideological framework, they are all "white" and share the same identity, and so these issues make no sense to those who think in 'racial' terms as opposed to 'national' terms.

The problem in certain European settler socities, such as America, is that the self-conception of the national identity is a "racial" identity. That is how the new European nation in America imagined and constructed itself. "Race" was invented by the these very Europeans, not just to justify the slaughter of the indigenous populations and the African slave trade, but to develope a shared national identity. It is how the European settlers created a "We" consciousness amongst themselves.

What makes "racism" a problem, particularly in America, is that, like Czarist Russia, it is a "prison house" of nations. Besides the European settler nation, there is an African nation in the southeast, and Aztland in the southwest, and numerous smaller indigenous nations scattered around. These other nations have no self-determination as nation-states, and are thus subject to the sentiments of dominant European settler nation.

This has a double-sided effect. On the one hand, the self-identification of the European settler nation is founded on a 'racialized' ideology. The European settlers recognize one another as the same on an implicitly 'racial' notion. So the ruling class needs this to hold the European settler nation together. On the other hand, too much racism antagonizes the imprisoned nations, and might eventually lead to wars of national liberation within territorial borders America, so it must also be opposed (as least in excess).

In my opinion, explaining how 'whiteness' is constructed goes a long way allowing people to see how people can be mislead into thinking they have a material stake in various issues.

Well race of course is merely a useful construct for the bourgeois to divide the working class. While the bourgeois are inherently racist bourgeois of any race will band together to suppress the working classes no matter what ethnic background the working class comes from. That how you get situations like in say the occupied 6 counties in Ireland where up until the early 2000's the worst off off the British working class where still much better off then the best of the Irish working class. The same thing went on in the US until fairly recently with the white working class and the minority working class and even today it goes on. It creates a almost 2 tiered working class where as long as the working class of the dominant ethnic group don't unite with other working class people they will be the first people to be turned down for a job with everyone else being second in line.

Race really has no practical meaning. Just because i am white does not mean i am of a similar ethnic background at all of say some white person in say mid west America so i really don't get it when peoples who happen to look pale try to use it to unite each other.