Terrorism, good or bad? ect.

[Unrelenting Steve]

well?

reasons would b nice too,

I see it as an over all good force(terrorism that is(on America neway, maube include some Euro tagets for the their agricultural subsides come to think of it)), America sure isnt gonna transform itself, did Germany have ne hope of changing and turning away from its course? ditto with Japan?.... it seems America is a certan unacceptable way, and that needs to be changed, and it dont have the capibility of changing itself....

how do you see things being played out? any future scenarios you'd like to xplore?
cause i must say, im seeing a pretty black and white picture (on the issue of whether America needs to fall), Do you see any hope for the world and a hope of actual successful socialism being put into practice in some other world contextes u see perhaps coming abouts?

hmmm, well i think ive raised some stuff.......please elabourate/comment/wateva and shower me with insight.....

[Stapler]

Clearly, the indiscriminate taking of human lives is wrong, but I can understand why Terrorist organizations have sprung up, and decided to attack the United States. American military bases impede on the national sovreignty of Japan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Germany, Korea, and countless others. I would take up arms to defend Canada from the American military if the need arose.

[Unrelenting Steve]

the bigger picture!? ne ideas on that?

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 10:42 PM
Clearly, the indiscriminate taking of human lives is wrong, but I can understand why Terrorist organizations have sprung up, and decided to attack the United States. American military bases impede on the national sovreignty of Japan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Germany, Korea, and countless others. I would take up arms to defend Canada from the American military if the need arose.
cant it be they are just religious freaks.

[LSD]

cant it be they are just religious freaks.

Yes, but you notice that these "religous freaks" seem to have a rather consistent target??
That can hardly be an accident.

[John Galt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 10:42 PM
Clearly, the indiscriminate taking of human lives is wrong, but I can understand why Terrorist organizations have sprung up, and decided to attack the United States. American military bases impede on the national sovreignty of Japan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Germany, Korea, and countless others. I would take up arms to defend Canada from the American military if the need arose.
How many of these countries consent to these bases, or have treaties allowing them?













Oh yeah, all of them.

[LSD]

How many of these countries consent to these bases, or have treaties allowing them?













Oh yeah, all of them.

What you mean is that the governments of these countries agreed.
I highly doubt the people of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait had a say in the matter.

And even in democratic and pseudo-democratic states, issues regarding military concernes are rarely put before the people. Often the average person does not know about them, and what they do know is usually wrong.

I think you put too much faith in the integrity of these states.

[John Galt]

The problem is not the US then, but those countries.

[LSD]

The point is that it is usually the US that created and/or props up those governments.
e.g., Saudi Arabia, Kuwait (they even fought a war over that one)

So yes, these governments are a problem, but you have to look deeper to find the root cause.

[Zanzibar]

I'm not talking about terrorosim on an open forum. Thats incredibly stupid.

[Lardlad95]

The only attacks against a nation should be to take out mIlitary or political targets, and maybe economic if tey don't harm civilians.

you gain no support by downing innocents

[el_profe]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2004, 11:46 PM

cant it be they are just religious freaks.

Yes, but you notice that these "religous freaks" seem to have a rather consistent target??
That can hardly be an accident.
yes, anyone who is not muslim, jews, catholics, christians.

[LSD]

yes, anyone who is not muslim, jews, catholics, christians.

Yes, because fire-bombs are rampant across Australia.

There are many non-muslims who are not targets. Many "jews, catholics, christians" who are not targets. And while there has been some indiscriminate killing, the main target is almost consistently the US, US satelites, or US citizens.

I am certainly not defending religious fanatics, but if you ignore the causes you only invite more attacks.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by Unrelenting [email protected] 1 2004, 10:37 PM
well?

reasons would b nice too,

I see it as an over all good force(terrorism that is(on America neway, maube include some Euro tagets for the their agricultural subsides come to think of it)), America sure isnt gonna transform itself, did Germany have ne hope of changing and turning away from its course? ditto with Japan?.... it seems America is a certan unacceptable way, and that needs to be changed, and it dont have the capibility of changing itself....

how do you see things being played out? any future scenarios you'd like to xplore?
cause i must say, im seeing a pretty black and white picture (on the issue of whether America needs to fall), Do you see any hope for the world and a hope of actual successful socialism being put into practice in some other world contextes u see perhaps coming abouts?

hmmm, well i think ive raised some stuff.......please elabourate/comment/wateva and shower me with insight.....
I fully support terrorism. I believe that if blacks in south Africa decide to take up arms, kill the whitey's, start committing terrorist acts, I say it is their right. I'd fully understand.


Wouldn’t you?

[Unrelenting Steve]

There is no such distinction in my country.... The ANC is the most mixed party (if you wish to speak in racial terms) in parliment.... and of you want to belive most of the propanganda in your media to descredit our economic and therefore weaken us.... then yes, I agree there is a premiss for African terrorism, but sadly not on "white" targets in South Africa (which i must regret to inform you just dont exist). But there are many opressing symbols I see in America towards us that we could have a go at...

[Loknar]

Originally posted by Unrelenting [email protected] 2 2004, 05:05 AM
There is no such distinction in my country.... The ANC is the most mixed party (if you wish to speak in racial terms) in parliment.... and of you want to belive most of the propanganda in your media to descredit our economic and therefore weaken us.... then yes, I agree there is a premiss for African terrorism, but sadly not on "white" targets in South Africa (which i must regret to inform you just dont exist). But there are many opressing symbols I see in America towards us that we could have a go at...
so 9-11 was a great day wasnt it?

[Urban Rubble]

Anyone that supports the intentional targeting of civilians is no friend of mine.

[The Children of the Revolution]

so 9-11 was a great day wasnt it?


I am a pacifist. I was greatly saddened by 9-11. I do not support terrorist acts, no.

Unfortunately, they look set to continue. By attacking the Middle East and by launching an invasion, the Bu$h administration will fuel violence and hatred, not calm it. The "religious freaks" that were referred to earlier have now seen the Holy Lands invaded and largely destabilised - more targets and more volunteers for suicide missions no doubt.

Terrorism is unquestionably "bad". But to be honest, there isn't much of an alternative for the beleagured Muslim extremist. It is a form of opposition which cannot be invaded or imprisoned. The only way it can be stopped is by America (and the others) going back home and not interfering. (This includes propping up Israel and giving them vast quantities of weapons and ammunition) That is the way forwards.

[Unrelenting Steve]

Well what is the world like? huh? There is no international organisation that can poeple can do to and complain about America and have the situation resolved! What you expect the victims of American foriegn policy to silently carry on taking it!? When the EU and China *****es about steel subbsides in America something happens, we cannot say the same for the 3rd world.... you leave people only one recourse to respond and fight back, and then you call those fanatics who would chose the only proactive role!!!!!!!!?

Let the articulate ring masters of these terrorists groups go on Oprah and tell America of its crimes and why it should be VERY sorry and stop its imperialism ect.

And i must say, I would rather have the ignorant zeolous die than undeserving victims!

or we could look at it like this; america isnt bombed: the world has no potential to change as the 3rd suffers with no voice and misses a chance to cease its victimization. Allowing America to continue to ignore the problems in the world it creates...

perhaps the one is acceptable to you because you live in America, but i could not give a shit about 3000 ppl, many many times more die in Africa of a treatable Cureable disease...Maleria! and its not only ignorance, I have spoken to enough poeple to know they have learned to ignore, learned to be hard to all reason, something which it seemed Germany did not grow out of until they were uttely defeated, ditto for Japan......so it seems to me, America falls into that catagory.....and therefore there is only one resolution.


And to RedStar..... I dont see it, yes global capitalism tends to want to move into 3rd world countries to use the cheap labour, but that is not the case, I dont see a free trade agreement to any African country....its politics that is screwing up Marxism at the moment, the Americans have extended their capitalism&#39;s life span by its selective trade.... by selling to the markets in other countries but subsidising their own industries enough to protect their labour force and their economy(to mention one of their techniques(CNN is would b another in their discrediting of other counties (falsley><)))...><..... I see no resolution other than a purely external social one, not a economic one....... u have ne guidance for me at all?

Am I becoming(/already)...right wing :(

[Unrelenting Steve]

Originally posted by Loknar+Feb 2 2004, 04:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Loknar @ Feb 2 2004, 04:10 AM)
Unrelenting [email protected] 2 2004, 05:05 AM
There is no such distinction in my country.... The ANC is the most mixed party (if you wish to speak in racial terms) in parliment.... and of you want to belive most of the propanganda in your media to descredit our economic and therefore weaken us.... then yes, I agree there is a premiss for African terrorism, but sadly not on "white" targets in South Africa (which i must regret to inform you just dont exist). But there are many opressing symbols I see in America towards us that we could have a go at...
so 9-11 was a great day wasnt it? [/b]
I think its sad the world is the way it is, but I do belive 9-11 was more positive than negative... ur no. of posts is 911 at this moment in time.....lol (sorry-its tru tho)

[Urban Rubble]

I have spoken to enough poeple to know they have learned to ignore, learned to be hard to all reason, something which it seemed Germany did not grow out of until they were uttely defeated, ditto for Japan......so it seems to me, America falls into that catagory.....and therefore there is only one resolution.

What are you trying to say ? That Germany and Japan were defeated through terrorism ?

I would support an all out war on the states, I would not support an extensive terrorism campaign.

Terrorism accomplishes nothing. It kills the people you are supposed to be fighting to save. It also make people unsupportive of your cause. There is no quiker way to turn people away from your cause than by killing their family.


I think its sad the world is the way it is, but I do belive 9-11 was more positive than negative...

Then you&#39;re a fool. Do you think that Osama Bin Laden and his pals give a shit about the international working class ? No. They want to make the worls safe for fanatical Muslims. I for one would rather live under George Bush.

What did 9-11 accomplish for our side ? Not a fucking thing. One religious fanatic vs. the other.

[truthaddict11]

Then you&#39;re a fool. Do you think that Osama Bin Laden and his pals give a shit about the international working class ? No. They want to make the worls safe for fanatical Muslims. I for one would rather live under George Bush.


thats right UR, some people tend to forget that Osama is a capitalist too, and try to say that 9-11 was an anti-capitalism attack.

[Intifada]

killing innocent people in any way or form is wrong. the american government is quick to condemn a suicide bomber in palestine, yet its okay for them to drop cluster bombs in yugoslavia and now iraq. its okay for them to bomb whoever the hell they like. its okay for them to do whatever pleases them.

the problem is that nobody tries to look at the reasons as to why some have resorted to suicide bombings and hijacking planes. they never try to understand what drives some palestinians into blowing themselves up in a street full of israelis. the west just condemns the bombing and then continues it&#39;s support for the israelis.

[pastradamus]

The Word terrorism should be wiped out of the english dictionary.
WHY?
Because Terrorism dosent exist,plain & simple.

I know how stupid this sounds but think about it...The State of Isreal claims that it is under attack from Islamic &#39;Terrorists&#39;,but the state of Isreal Has killed many people ranging from old people to children in a racially motivated attack on palestinians.But on the other hand The palestinians have also made mistakes by killing innocent people themselves.The Term terrorism is one of the most commonly,yet invisible methods of spreading propaganda...dont be fooled by this term.

[Intifada]

terrorism is the war of the poor. war is the terrorism of the rich.

someone once put it like that, and it is very true.

[Professor Moneybags]

thats right UR, some people tend to forget that Osama is a capitalist too

Can you explain how you came to this conclusion ?

[cubist]

i am going to post about terrorism on an open forum becuase i am not afraid i have nothing to be afraid of.

Terrorism is wrong it is not a resolution, but niether is bushism,

my sig used to be FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE FUCKING FOR YOUR VIRGINITY.


isn&#39;t osama the patent of a vital peice of equipment used to fill coke cans?

[Unrelenting Steve]

What are you talking about? not a fucking thing? THe NYSE has lost half its value, the Iraq war&#33;? all things putting extreme financial pressure in the USA&#33; They for the first time actualy have a current account deficet instead of just a fundamental one, now they can start to feel the burn&#33; You forget, the American bubble was far from bursting before 9-11, its accelertaing their demise... They conducted a war they could not afford, people are pulling out of the "safe" American markets, Europe has stopped paying for America&#39;s debt thru their investment...

America is on the downward trend... a lot thanx to 9-11, not all, but a lot

[bubbrubb]

i don&#39;t hink its good or right. the killing of innocent civilians is wrong and i think rather cowardly. yes i can aslo see why that have been created but the way the go about expressing their hatred is wrong

[cubist]

i heard since GW got into power the treasury has been is it 380,000,000 down. is this true if so HA Fucking HA, the problem is the european market will not allow the dollar to lose too much face the capitalist world will bail the americans out

9-11 isn&#39;t the only reason, excellerated space program, War, yes people have lost fiath in a safe market but that can be regained

[Unrelenting Steve]

Also terrorism will make administrations like Bush&#39;s more and more outwardly right wing.... the world does have a breaking point, there is a limit to how much Brittain can tolerate before becoming totaly alienated...and then defiant..... then maybe we can see more of a ganging up of Europe and China on America in the way of controling their foreign policy, forcing them to be bound by institutions like the UN (perhaps combined with a restructuring of the UN to require 2 permanent member votes to vito something)...... the more alianted their allies and to a large extent the un-proactivley defiant Europe...the tougher the world can be on America.... maybe there, there is the potencial for resolution.... but it can only be found when bad and good can clearly be defined to everyone, and terrorism can help point out human rights abusers, and just wrong doers and the people who desperatley need leashes....(I think Quantanimo is a small scale example of this.... more and more things like that on a more international scale (eg invading more countries cause America has too cause of more terrorism) might just force forces to commit each other to international instiutitions....ect. making the world a safer place

Maybe in that more structured world unfair trade could be resolved through more powerful international courts.....

These are the scenarios I would like explored..... Am I taking these potencial current scenarios to incorrect conclusions?

Or is it a waste to speculate on the future&#33;? As a Marxist (sorry if u feel i taint the pool or am 2 stupid(o and i took the leap a couple months ago from Utopian Socialism)) I think its imperitive to look at real forces, reality...and find where work must be done to greece the cogs of history.. or at least its nice to know which side you should b rooting for, thats gearing us towards the right path.....

I hope that legible enough for ppl to respond to, lol, sometimes i wish this was a chat forum.....and and wats up with that, it neva seems to work(the chat forum)? - sorry ill take that to another forum later.....ill keep it here tho incase it can b answered concisley...

[Unrelenting Steve]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 08:25 PM
i don&#39;t hink its good or right. the killing of innocent civilians is wrong and i think rather cowardly. yes i can aslo see why that have been created but the way the go about expressing their hatred is wrong

Well they are not gonna get on Oprah, sure as hell not gonna get on CNN or FOX&#33; SO what are they supposed to do? mass suicide cause Americans dont care about them&#33;? The pacivist apporch will not resolve this situation.... DEAL WITH THE WRONGNESS OF REALITY.... I hope you help educate our American friends about just how wrong they are......cause if your not, your a hippocrat><, sorry to have the air of prejudment about this post.....

[kylieII]

Originally posted by Unrelenting [email protected] 1 2004, 10:37 PM

how do you see things being played out? any future scenarios you&#39;d like to xplore?


hmmm, well i think ive raised some stuff.......please elabourate/comment/wateva and shower me with insight.....


I see it as an over all good force(terrorism that is(on America neway, maube include some Euro tagets for the their agricultural subsides come to think of it)), America sure isnt gonna transform itself, did Germany have ne hope of changing and turning away from its course? ditto with Japan?.... it seems America is a certan unacceptable way, and that needs to be changed, and it dont have the capibility of changing itself....

So your solution is to bomb Americans into changing their social+economic policy. Wow, i&#39;m sure that will work. In making it even more restrictive that is.

Bombing the produce from EU agriculture will do nothing. I assume thats what you mean by targeting their &#39;subsides&#39;, although a subsidy is money, so perhaps you mean we should blow up money or something like that. But anyway, bombing the goods will have little effect, it may slightly reduce supply, but not enough to actually affect the market. Do you realise how large the stockpiles of goods being shipped are? And in the long term it would have no effect, other than tighter security.

As for bombing America. Perhaps you could be more specific? How is it that making terrorist attacks is going to achieve anything? I dont know, I was thinking that the basic motivation for Marxist viewpoints was that of wanting to help people, but i&#39;m just not seeing how bombing someone is going to help them.

Lets take a recent example, shall we? The attacks on the world trade centre. This did not increase the general acceptance of Islamic fundamentalist ideology in the United States. Whoops&#33;


cause i must say, im seeing a pretty black and white picture (on the issue of whether America needs to fall), Do you see any hope for the world and a hope of actual successful socialism being put into practice in some other world contextes u see perhaps coming abouts?
It is not black and white. Firstly what is America. A continent? A country? A group of people? You&#39;re generalising so much its unbelievable.
Secondly what do you mean by America having to fall. This can be so many things. Economic collapse? Widespread physical destruction, bombs and such? Successful invasion? Forceful overthrowal of the government?
Whatever it is you are actually trying to ask, my answer is likely to be no on all of them. America cannot be generalised in the way you are doing. There is so many different groups with different interests in it, the actions of the US government representing very few of them. It also by the way, not being possible to represent all these views, and so you can never do such generalisations, whoever is in charge.
Nor can anything productive come out of either the main importer in the world collapsing, random americans dying, a country occupying it and the war that must have precluded it, or a forceful revolution which is comparable to imposing a dictatorship. Whichever one it is that you mean.

[kylieII]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 2 2004, 12:08 AM
What you mean is that the governments of these countries agreed.
I highly doubt the people of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait had a say in the matter.

And even in democratic and pseudo-democratic states, issues regarding military concernes are rarely put before the people. Often the average person does not know about them, and what they do know is usually wrong.

I think you put too much faith in the integrity of these states.
Unless the country is in North America or Europe, then of course the government is completely representative, apparently.

[kylieII]

The Word terrorism should be wiped out of the english dictionary.
WHY?
Because Terrorism dosent exist,plain & simple.

The word goat should be wiped from the english dictionary.
WHY?
Because goats dont exist, plain and simple.

You sure convinced me. A word is whatever an individual wants to interpret it as. There is no set in stone definition of &#39;terrorist&#39;, if you were to ask people for it, i&#39;m sure they would vary greatly in explanation. As such, the idea that it cannot exist is not possible, as it is not talking about one particular exact thing. Language is a very flexible construct.


I know how stupid this sounds but think about it...The State of Isreal claims that it is under attack from Islamic &#39;Terrorists&#39;,but the state of Isreal Has killed many people ranging from old people to children in a racially motivated attack on palestinians.But on the other hand The palestinians have also made mistakes by killing innocent people themselves.
One group allegedly incorrectly calling someone a terrorist does not mean that terrorists do not exist.


The Term terrorism is one of the most commonly,yet invisible methods of spreading propaganda...dont be fooled by this term.
The term is also open to interpretation as I have said. There is no one universal definition of it.
As for being used to spread propaganda, in your very post you give biased assumptions and impose them on the reader. An example of how it is not the language that is at fault, but just how it is used and read.

but the state of Isreal Has killed many people ranging from old people to children in a racially motivated attack on palestinians.But on the other hand The palestinians have also made mistakes by killing innocent people themselves

[Unrelenting Steve]

Economic callapse would do nicley...... main importer of the world would dissapear&#33; good. then no more over production... capitalism would fail in all excessivley productive industrialized countries......and then communism.. Of course Africa would b mostly indifferant as not much really sells from africa accept raw materials, maybe the industrialsed (now) socialist countries will recognise their great injustices and help Africa to develop enough to industrialise so it can get on its own Marxist road(China is helping so much atm...WTO meeting on agricutlral subsides (THANX CHINA, WE APPRECIATE IT&#33;))


What I meant was perhaps a bombing with a note left saying: stop the starving in Africa, allow free trade so people can have enough to feed themselves&#33;

By America I meant he USA, other countries are small enough or would be agreeable enough to submit to something that the majority of the world needs/wants....

Im sorry, I am often not very eloquent....my logic is not...... America is bombed= they turn socialist.

IT is: America is bombed= America becomes more right wing and does whatever it feels it needs to internationaly (eg. more unsubstantiated wars)=basicly all Other countries say; "We will all sanction/ declare war on you if you dont join the UN and blah blah= more structured world where real free trade can be resolved in perhaps International courts set up= a world which is set firmly in the Marxist path.......

so in conclusion, my logic is America is bombed= they turn soicialist.....but that was implied, and not said, and way way down the line of my current thought processes that I was trying to convey...... again i apologize for my ineloquence.....

[Unrelenting Steve]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 03:40 PM

Then you&#39;re a fool. Do you think that Osama Bin Laden and his pals give a shit about the international working class ? No. They want to make the worls safe for fanatical Muslims. I for one would rather live under George Bush.


thats right UR, some people tend to forget that Osama is a capitalist too, and try to say that 9-11 was an anti-capitalism attack.
I dont care what he is, I see him performing a function furfiling Marxist ends..... Thats what I want to talk about.. do you belive that he is or not, UR obviously doesnt, but I think I have brought up some more valid points, and Id like to see him contradict those... I can see terrorism having positive outcomes.... as i have pointed out i think we have already (the NYSE going down, American economy in trouble caused by 9-11 which caused Iraq<-- more economic trouble) and my alienation argument....... cant wait...well i have to sleep now, g&#39;night, hope to read some interesting stuff in the morning :-)

[General A.A.Vlasov]

...what kind of idiot can support terrorism&#33;? :huh:

[Saint-Just]

I do not want to support Terrorism. However, the outcome of it is sometimes positive. Does anyone remember Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

The distinctions between what is indiscriminate violence and what is not is difficult. I think in terrorism as terrorism defined, where groups are hurting others completely indiscriminately is normally of little use and very wrong.

[Unrelenting Steve]

indiscriminate violence..... do you mean this in the sense that the violance is totaly random....or that targets are generalised and so the enemy was targeted in such a way it indiscriminatley included innocents aswell....

If your meaning is the 2nd....do you not find that a little idealistic?... and if that view was accepted by all in the opressed world.... would it not lead to a never ending atrocious situation?

The world is a harsh place, it has material contraints....there are many boundaries and devices inherent in the systems some of us humans have created- that cost lives... we cannot be idealistic... ignorance is a crime in this world- and if you would have any emotion toward the ignorant that die though their own foul systems, you are racist and/or nationalist and/or ignorant..... cause I dont see how you could have any time left to feel sorry for the effect(eg. 9-11), as you would have died before you could properly contemplate the losses incurred in the cause(hunger, poverty, famine ect.)&#33;

I hope I have articulated that correctly, I am very proud of that point......


and to those who give no substance....." terrorism is bad, u must b an idiot"....... defeat my argument and i will concede... waste of post space......

[pastradamus]

The term is also open to interpretation as I have said. There is no one universal definition of it.
As for being used to spread propaganda, in your very post you give biased assumptions and impose them on the reader. An example of how it is not the language that is at fault, but just how it is used and read.
On the large scale,the basic run-of-the mill person with little intrest in politics.When they hear the word terrorist being used will intrepret the term negatively towards the group of people to which it is being refered.Stop being a smartass & be honest with me,you get it everyday when you turn on your television,open your newspaper & listen to the radio.Here in Ireland for example,where the IRA have some support,but not much.We rarely ever see the term Terrorist Used in refrence to the group.But in Britain where the group are hated you constantly see a barrage of articles in newspapers & in the news using the term terrorism with refrence to the IRA.
The term as we know it today has been modified by powerfull countries of the world and is used in a negative context towards resistance groups across the world.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Unrelenting [email protected] 3 2004, 09:02 PM
indiscriminate violence..... do you mean this in the sense that the violance is totaly random....or that targets are generalised and so the enemy was targeted in such a way it indiscriminatley included innocents aswell....

If your meaning is the 2nd....do you not find that a little idealistic?... and if that view was accepted by all in the opressed world.... would it not lead to a never ending atrocious situation?

The world is a harsh place, it has material contraints....there are many boundaries and devices inherent in the systems some of us humans have created- that cost lives... we cannot be idealistic... ignorance is a crime in this world- and if you would have any emotion toward the ignorant that die though their own foul systems, you are racist and/or nationalist and/or ignorant..... cause I dont see how you could have any time left to feel sorry for the effect(eg. 9-11), as you would have died before you could properly contemplate the losses incurred in the cause(hunger, poverty, famine ect.)&#33;

I hope I have articulated that correctly, I am very proud of that point......


and to those who give no substance....." terrorism is bad, u must b an idiot"....... defeat my argument and i will concede... waste of post space......

indiscriminate violence..... do you mean this in the sense that the violance is totaly random....or that targets are generalised and so the enemy was targeted in such a way it indiscriminatley included innocents aswell....

If your meaning is the 2nd....do you not find that a little idealistic?... and if that view was accepted by all in the opressed world.... would it not lead to a never ending atrocious situation?

When I talk about indiscriminate violence I am talking about groups targeting any person(s), i.e. you simply kill or hurt any person to further your cause, totally random targets. I would suggest that Palestinian Terrorists resist through suicide bombings to kill Israeli&#39;s or indeed westerners, although it is not necessarily the best strategy. I agree with the rest of your point.

I condemn terrorism, however it needs to be recognised that often terrorism is inevitable and the way to fight it is not always through violence.

[General A.A.Vlasov]

Around 40 INNOCENTS are dead and more than 120 wounded in result of terract in Moscow metro&#33;...

IS TERRORISM GOOD&#33;?

[Intifada]

a 14 year old palestinian boy has been killed by an israeli missile strike in gaza. terrorism is not good.

[heynow]

I didn&#39;t read anything in this thread because the topic is so ridiculous, so I&#39;m just going to weigh in and check out.

Terrorism = bad.
Replying to terrorism with terrorism = bad.
Not replying to terrorism with terrorism = probably good.
Replying to terrorism with something effective, other than terrorism = good.

What that effective reply should be, considering how fucked up and lame it is to do terrorism and how badly terrorists deserve to die hot and quick and bloody and painful deaths for what they do?

I have no fucking idea... and neither do any of you or any of our leaders, no matter who you think those leaders are.

End of discussion.

[Unrelenting Steve]

"I didn&#39;t read anything in this thread because the topic is so ridiculous"
-you need to be taken out by a terrorist, I just feel sorry for the poeple who have to waste their lives ending such worthless entities such as urself.

You are the cause of terrorism&#33; Kill yourself please, save the world some trouble....

[Unrelenting Steve]

Originally posted by [email protected]eb 7 2004, 11:16 AM
a 14 year old palestinian boy has been killed by an israeli missile strike in gaza. terrorism is not good.
I look at each terrorist act and say whether its good or not....
But for groups of people who have no voice or tools to change unfair forces in this world.... At least through terrorism they can bring attention to situations....or even create a motive for the ones in power to create forums and institutions that can solve problems that drive some people to the only proactive means left to them.....terrorism.

I know its not so simple if you look at the exact motives of the terrorists, but: America put Afgunistan in an unfair situation..... and then we had poeple from Afgunistan atttacking America(9-11)..... The one did cause the other.... now maybe the USA has a reason not to repeat its bastardry like leaving allies to fall when they have no more vestd interest.

[Soviet power supreme]

Innocent people tend to die in wars or do you think that A-Bomb in Hiroshima was a terrorist act?Terrorism is just a way of warfare.

Do you think that talebans had any other way to fight against americans?
Do you think that palestinians have any other way to fight against Israel?

[Intifada]

then we had poeple from Afgunistan atttacking America(9-11).

none of the hijackers were afghans.

soviet power supreme is right, the palestinians have no choice but to kill themselves along with some innocent israelis, its a very awful fact and it will continue until the west realises that their support for israel is wrong.

[Unrelenting Steve]

So when you said terrorism is not good you werent advocating it never be utalized?

[Unrelenting Steve]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 12:32 PM

then we had poeple from Afgunistan atttacking America(9-11).

none of the hijackers were afghans.

soviet power supreme is right, the palestinians have no choice but to kill themselves along with some innocent israelis, its a very awful fact and it will continue until the west realises that their support for israel is wrong.
But it was orchastrated by Al Queda that had its base (or does) in Afgunistan... Which would not be the case if America didnt abandon it....

[Soviet power supreme]

It was orchastrated by Usa.

[Unrelenting Steve]

What do you mean by that, I certainly belive it was intiated by the USA, but I dont see America gaining much from 9-11.... economic problems, creating a bigger deficit....


Then again America thru the years they have just gotten more and more into the red, like the internet bubble..... perhaps they want the dollar to devalue extremely so they can go back to having a fundamentaly functioning economy...

[Soviet power supreme]

I meant that those attacks were made by remote controls not by some islamic terrorists whose flyings skills should have been brilliant.

The flying teachers in USA have even said that they weren&#39;t good conrolling the airplane so how in the hell they could have done attacks that needs excellent flying skills?

[Dirty Commie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 12:44 PM
The Word terrorism should be wiped out of the english dictionary.
WHY?
Because Terrorism dosent exist,plain & simple.

I know how stupid this sounds but think about it...The State of Isreal claims that it is under attack from Islamic &#39;Terrorists&#39;,but the state of Isreal Has killed many people ranging from old people to children in a racially motivated attack on palestinians.But on the other hand The palestinians have also made mistakes by killing innocent people themselves.The Term terrorism is one of the most commonly,yet invisible methods of spreading propaganda...dont be fooled by this term.
This is the one thing that has made sense on this thread...ther media portays people and organizations who have no country of their own to fight for and use "unconvetional" warfare as people who only want to scare and kill. This is shit, what is called "terrorism" is in fact warfare that is carried out by groups either without a nation, or nations who wish to disguise their actions.




"Isreali baby killers are called commandoes, Arab commandoes arre called terrorists"-George Carlin-