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EoLE
17th July 2014, 12:23
Hey everybody,
I just joined tonight after looking for the difference between personal possessions and private property and found some good explanations here.
I've been somewhere on the left of the linear left/right political spectrum for as long as I can remember. I took an active interest in Castro's Cuba in my late teens simply because of how resilient it has been in the face of US hostility and also relative to some of the horrible events that happened in other communist/socialist states it seemed much of Castro's policies were not as dictatorial and in some cases even justifiable and understandable.
It was around then, I might have been 20, that I first came across Kropotkin and I thought then I'd strayed a little too far into some far flung catacomb of leftism when confronted by statements like 'property is theft' (which I misunderstood at the time and which I'm still trying to understand more, hence my looking up possessions vs property). I lost interest in politics altogether for a good while, kind of disenfranchised with leftism and politics in general, but then thought I'd give George Woodcock's book 'Anarchism' a try after I found it for a couple of bucks in a second hand bookshop back in 2007.
Since then I've tried to learn more and wrap my head around certain elements of radical leftism because parts of what I was learning made so much sense to me at last. Thanks to Bakunin's version of socialism I came to see how destructive the state truly was and how even a non-anarchist in Max Weber also, like Bakunin, predicted the tyranny of socialist bureaucracies.
I still don't know which of the many types of anarchist I would most closely resemble. Maybe anarchosyndicalist as I believe workers, whether an individual homesteader or thousands of factory labourers, know better how to organise themselves and live their lives than a centralised authority and should be recompensed for the full amount of their labour and not a mere portion of it to justify capitalist profit.
Sometimes I don't even know if the title anarchist is appropriate though. Even after about 7 years I challenge myself constantly as to how effective an anarchist society could be at tackling social deviance and harm done to others without police, courts and prisons (not that I approve of any of those mind you but I wonder if the absence of them would prove to be even worse).
I also believe that market exchange does not necessarily equal capitalism and that there may be economic systems of exchange, like barter or gift economies, that could replace capitalism but still involve the free and voluntary exchange of goods or services at perfect parity without anyone gaining profit or exploitation over others.
So I hope to learn more here directly from other leftists and may even share some ideas of my own.
Glad to be here :)
EoLE.

Q
17th July 2014, 14:20
Welcome :)

If you have political questions, you can ask them in the Learning forum. That's why it's there after all!

If you have questions about your account, don't hesitate to send me a PM or ask here.

Slavoj Zizek's Balls
17th July 2014, 14:58
Hey everybody,
I just joined tonight after looking for the difference between personal possessions and private property and found some good explanations here.
I've been somewhere on the left of the linear left/right political spectrum for as long as I can remember. I took an active interest in Castro's Cuba in my late teens simply because of how resilient it has been in the face of US hostility and also relative to some of the horrible events that happened in other communist/socialist states it seemed much of Castro's policies were not as dictatorial and in some cases even justifiable and understandable.
It was around then, I might have been 20, that I first came across Kropotkin and I thought then I'd strayed a little too far into some far flung catacomb of leftism when confronted by statements like 'property is theft' (which I misunderstood at the time and which I'm still trying to understand more, hence my looking up possessions vs property). I lost interest in politics altogether for a good while, kind of disenfranchised with leftism and politics in general, but then thought I'd give George Woodcock's book 'Anarchism' a try after I found it for a couple of bucks in a second hand bookshop back in 2007.
Since then I've tried to learn more and wrap my head around certain elements of radical leftism because parts of what I was learning made so much sense to me at last. Thanks to Bakunin's version of socialism I came to see how destructive the state truly was and how even a non-anarchist in Max Weber also, like Bakunin, predicted the tyranny of socialist bureaucracies.
I still don't know which of the many types of anarchist I would most closely resemble. Maybe anarchosyndicalist as I believe workers, whether an individual homesteader or thousands of factory labourers, know better how to organise themselves and live their lives than a centralised authority and should be recompensed for the full amount of their labour and not a mere portion of it to justify capitalist profit.
Sometimes I don't even know if the title anarchist is appropriate though. Even after about 7 years I challenge myself constantly as to how effective an anarchist society could be at tackling social deviance and harm done to others without police, courts and prisons (not that I approve of any of those mind you but I wonder if the absence of them would prove to be even worse).
I also believe that market exchange does not necessarily equal capitalism and that there may be economic systems of exchange, like barter or gift economies, that could replace capitalism but still involve the free and voluntary exchange of goods or services at perfect parity without anyone gaining profit or exploitation over others.
So I hope to learn more here directly from other leftists and may even share some ideas of my own.
Glad to be here :)
EoLE.

Hello.

I'm glad you're not sticking in one place and are instead looking at new ideas.

You might want to consider not theorising too much about a possible future society. It generally amounts to intellectual masturbation and emphasises ideals over current struggles.

Enjoy your stay.

Anglo-Saxon Philistine
17th July 2014, 15:05
Hello.


I still don't know which of the many types of anarchist I would most closely resemble. Maybe anarchosyndicalist as I believe workers, whether an individual homesteader or thousands of factory labourers, know better how to organise themselves and live their lives than a centralised authority and should be recompensed for the full amount of their labour and not a mere portion of it to justify capitalist profit.

I doubt most anarcho-syndicalists would consider "individual homesteaders" to be workers, or talk about people receiving "the full amount of their labour" - this is what Marx called "Ricardian socialism", an attempt to institute a "perfect" capitalism where every exchange would be "just" without doing away with the law of value.


Sometimes I don't even know if the title anarchist is appropriate though. Even after about 7 years I challenge myself constantly as to how effective an anarchist society could be at tackling social deviance and harm done to others without police, courts and prisons (not that I approve of any of those mind you but I wonder if the absence of them would prove to be even worse).

What do you mean by "social deviance"?

Quail
17th July 2014, 16:07
Hi, welcome to Revleft :)

Loony Le Fist
17th July 2014, 16:16
Welcome to the forums!

EoLE
17th July 2014, 16:29
Thanks for the welcomes people.


I doubt most anarcho-syndicalists would consider "individual homesteaders" to be workers, or talk about people receiving "the full amount of their labour" - this is what Marx called "Ricardian socialism", an attempt to institute a "perfect" capitalism where every exchange would be "just" without doing away with the law of value.

Thanks, I need any help I can get haha. Maybe I'm more like a left market anarchist or something. "Ricardian socialism" and "perfect capitalism", they sound like classical liberal themes, is that right? I'm actually reading Adam Smith's the Wealth of Nations at the moment incidentally. I can see what Chomsky means when he says he isn't the clear friend of today's capitalism that free market goons claim him to be.


What do you mean by "social deviance"?

As I understand it there would be no 'crime' per se in an anarchist society as crime and criminals are defined by legal codes that would be done away with. But I've taken a shine to the notion of 'social harm' which would mean, despite there no longer being a criminal justice system people wouldn't just put up with people driving on the wrong side of the street or beating people up. Have you heard of zemiology? It's the proposed study of social harm which some criminologists want to replace the notion of crime which often ignores corporate and political wrong doing. Criminologists Paddy Hillyard and Steve Tombs wrote 'Beyond Criminology: Taking Harm Seriously' to raise these points.

The Idler
21st July 2014, 22:57
Hello.

I'm glad you're not sticking in one place and are instead looking at new ideas.

You might want to consider not theorising too much about a possible future society. It generally amounts to intellectual masturbation and emphasises ideals over current struggles.

Enjoy your stay.
I think striking a balance between thinking about what kind of society is your object and some engagement along these lines with current society is a good idea. Separating means from ends means you will be the worst kind of movementist taking sides on every struggle.

Psycho P and the Freight Train
21st July 2014, 23:07
Hey, you actually explained your views in detail, I approve! Welcome!