has there ever been a communist country?

[zapata's_ghost]

i dont think there has. if you read the manifesto it speaks of the stages of communism, first theres the revolution, then theres a proletarian dictatorship and then theres true communism. to my knowledge i dont think that any country has got past the proletariat dictatorship. look at stalin for instance, was that communism? looks more like fascism to me, same for other 'communist' countries, north korea? maos china?
i believe in communism, and the hope that communism can one day be achieved globally, but only if 'true communism' can be achieved.

[BOZG]

True communism is identical to anarchism, therefore communism has never existed. Has socialism ever existed? I believe it has though for a very short time, in the USSR after the October Revolution. Has it existed elsewhere? I don't think it has, all other "socialist" countries have been controlled by a bureaucratic clique with relatively no existance of workers' power, an integral part of socialism.

[Zanzibar]

True communism can never be achieved until after world revolution. There have, however, been many socialist nations - Cuba, the USSR, Vietnam, ect...

From Engels:
- 19 -
Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone?

No. By creating the world market, big industry has already brought all the peoples of the Earth, and especially the civilized peoples, into such close relation with one another that none is independent of what happens to the others.

Further, it has co-ordinated the social development of the civilized countries to such an extent that, in all of them, bourgeoisie and proletariat have become the decisive classes, and the struggle between them the great struggle of the day. It follows that the communist revolution will not merely be a national phenomenon but must take place simultaneously in all civilized countries -- that is to say, at least in England, America, France, and Germany.

It will develop in each of the these countries more or less rapidly, according as one country or the other has a more developed industry, greater wealth, a more significant mass of productive forces. Hence, it will go slowest and will meet most obstacles in Germany, most rapidly and with the fewest difficulties in England. It will have a powerful impact on the other countries of the world, and will radically alter the course of development which they have followed up to now, while greatly stepping up its pace.

It is a universal revolution and will, accordingly, have a universal range.



Secondly do not confuse socialism with "deomcratic socialism."

Socialists view socialism as a transitionary state to communism - Again, Cuba, the USSR, ect....

Democratic socialists view socialism as sufficient to end the misery of the proletariat. These would be socialist who work within bourgeouise democracy. In Canada, the NDP. www.ndp.ca



Lastly, there has been primative communism on this planet. Honest to good-ness communism. Hunting and gathering societies of the past were communist.

Thats right kids, any capitalist that tells you self interest and capitalism is human nature is a lying bugger!

[bubbrubb]

:unsure: true communism has never been achieved and i don't think it ever will. i do think there have been countries with socilaism or close to it. so if you say there 3 stages the furthest anyone has evr got is the second stage

[New Tolerance]

Communism kind of exsisted during the cavemen era.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I would say No.
Communism, as has been explained, is similar to anarchism: no ruling class to exploit the people, no religion to conciliate the people, no state to subjugate the people.
The above statement may be a bit misleading, however. The state, as it exists in capitslism, is a direct creation of the ruling class to affirm a more powerful grip on the people. As is religion.

Socialism, however, is the necessary road to communism.
It is the stage where the working class assumed power through a state of their own that acts as a political arm of the proletariat in oppostion to the aspiring bourgeoisie. And by that I mean the unsatisfactory members of society who will try to bring back class society by concentrating power in their hands with religion, the appropriation of others' labour, aquisition of property, etc.

I believe Cuba is an even better example of socialism headed towards communism than was the soviet union in its early years.

Read some of the articles here (http://www.newhumanist.com/ca.html), especialy this one on Cuban Democracy vs. American Democracy (http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html).

[RedAnarchist]

No there hasnt. No country has ever got past socialism.

There has only ever been one nation that has come anywhere near the utopian state of Communism, and that is Cuba. Some other countries are Socialist, but are not progressing, such as the United Kingdom

[Yazman]

Communism IS NOT Utopian.

You have to realise that while all the class problems will disappear, new and previously unseen problems will arise to replace the ones that we will have resolved.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 03:55 AM
Some other countries are Socialist, but are not progressing, such as the United Kingdom
Please tell me you're kidding.
The UK is not socialist!
Cuba.
That is socilaist.
Not the UK.
In America they may tell you that any system where capitalism isn't completely free and is minutely regulated by the government isn't "pure capitalism" and is therefore socilaist.
This is a lie.
Among many others that the bourgois puppets told you.

[bombeverything]

No. A pure communist society [as in a statless, classless society] has never existed.


Socialism, however, is the necessary road to communism.
It is the stage where the working class assumed power through a state of their own that acts as a political arm of the proletariat in oppostion to the aspiring bourgeoisie. And by that I mean the unsatisfactory members of society who will try to bring back class society by concentrating power in their hands with religion, the appropriation of others' labour, aquisition of property, etc.

Socialism will never lead to communism. If it is 'a state of their own' why should they ever dissolve it and move on to communism? There is no such thing as a people's state. The state exists to protect the elite, not the masses. Please explain to me how a dictatorship could lead to communism ... ?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Obviously it is not a peoples' state, have you been reading up on your Leninist literature? =D

A dictatorship of the proletariat is a central organization of the working class.
A state, however, is always a political arm of a social class to oppress it's political opposition. In the case of the dictatorship of the proletariat, it is a government serving the proletariat against the aspiring owners of capital, owners of property, and the clergy.
Once these elemets are removed, then the government will cease to be a political arm of the workers and will simply be a means with which the people may carry out their needs.
If it is corrupt from the begining, it will not even achive the duty of freeing the people from the clutches of capitalism to begin with.

[Guerilla22]

It would have been interesting to see how the USSR progressed if Lenin had lived longer. Obvoiusly the leaders that followed strayed quite a bit from Lenin's ideology.

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by New [email protected] 2 2004, 11:45 PM
Communism kind of exsisted during the cavemen era.

:D

[BOZG]

Communism kind of exsisted during the cavemen era.

It's only in the past 10,000 years or so that society has been divided into classes. Primitive communism existed for the vast majority of human existance.



As for those that claim Cuba is a socialist society, I'd really like to know why they claim this?

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

does anyone here think 'true' communism can exist in a society unaffected by capitalism/globalisation/impirealism/etc?

I sure do! In certain African countries, a child is born but is raised by the community. there is active communal sharing. in Peru, before British conquerers, they used to share their gold with neighbours, and didnt even know what 'stealing' was. The thought of stealing wasnt there, and was introduced by the Brits...

I dunno, take a country unaffected by the evils of capitalism...'true' communism can exist...dont u think?

[BOZG]

Marxian communism cannot exist in such circumstances as its bases, to be simplistic on industrialisation and the proleteriat, two basic factors which do not exist in such societies.

[monkeydust]

There hasn't been a communist country before, that doesn't however, stop 99% of people from labelling any remotely socialist country to be 'communist'. I thunk this is and has been a great hindrance to our movement, the fact that to many, the word communism still has connotations of the harshness of the failed Stalinist states.

[Voice of the Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 07:11 PM
Communism kind of exsisted during the cavemen era.

Not even then, you still had sexual and tribal discrimination.

[BOZG]

Not even then, you still had sexual and tribal discrimination.

I'm not claiming you're wrong but could you elaborate on what you mean by sexual discrimination and tribal discrimination? In relation to sexual discrimination, do you mean that women automatically stayed within the "home"? And for tribal discrimination, do you mean discrimination between different tribes or in terms of a tribal hierarchy?

[guerrillaradio]

Just to make a fringe point: Communism does not equate to Marxism. Thanks. I'm out now.

[BOZG]

Hence my reference to MARXIAN communism. :D

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I see Cuba as a form of distorted socialism, the potential was/is there but it must lose the beaucracy which is highly unlikely to happen.

Clearly it is better than the rampant capitalism of the majority of countries in the world but maybe ask yourself is Cuba really socialist or do you just hope and want it is so you ignore some aspects.

[dark fairy]

I agree and I've had this in the back of my head a long time ago... i don't thing there has been a true communist country because communism is not a community governed under a dictator... i suppose that is what society has made of it and the people who let humans {under their natural forces} take over... long made short i don't think there has ever been a true communist country ...

[Iepilei]

it disturbs me how people can be so apt as to point socialists and communism to the workings of primitive society... it makes me feel so progressive!

on that note, it's my opinion that no form of socialism nor communism HAS EVER existed due to the whole "not having a proletariat" thing.

[dark fairy]

the thing is that once the revolution is successful the people soon forget what they fought for and then give their power to another dictator or just plain humans that knows that by telling these people the lies he tells them he will make money and have power... we are human beings and as human beings it is in out nature to kill eachother and such things so therefore no human will actually sit there and recieve what he is given without wanting more... and that is why there hasn't been a communist country yet because the society with those people does not exist yet... and the day it does is FAR for near ... all of the obove is just what i think and how i feel so don't take it up the ass humans

[Fknugly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 07:44 PM
There hasn't been a communist country before, that doesn't however, stop 99% of people from labelling any remotely socialist country to be 'communist'. I thunk this is and has been a great hindrance to our movement, the fact that to many, the word communism still has connotations of the harshness of the failed Stalinist states.
absolutely right. Ppl in the deep south will yell and call others communist that have left, liberal views, without even knowing the definition of communist. It is a nurtured environment that has derogatory inclinations passed on through the generations as a blind institution.