Classical Marxism today

[Comrade Walter]

Are there Classical Marxists today (those who follow thought of Marx and Engels only)?

[The Idler]

The only way to follow the thought of Marx and Engels only would be to reprint their works. So Lawrence and Wishart or Marx Memorial Library perhaps? Although they are ex-CPGB.
Classical Marxists more generally is more interesting. There is the Hammersmith branch of the Socialist League (in reality the William Morris Society in the UK).
Various Marxists rejected what was trying to be bolted on in the early twentieth century including the SPGB.

[Црвена]

There are probably a lot of people who claim to be classical Marxists today, but they are likely to have been influenced by other theorists in some small way as well...there have been too many Marxist theorists who have developed the theories of Marx and Engels and too many different interpretations of Marxism for anyone to solely follow the thought of these two theorists.

[Comrade Walter]

There are probably a lot of people who claim to be classical Marxists today, but they are likely to have been influenced by other theorists in some small way as well...there have been too many Marxist theorists who have developed the theories of Marx and Engels and too many different interpretations of Marxism for anyone to solely follow the thought of these two theorists.

That's right. Probably there are people who think that October Revolution wasn't true proletarian revolution and USSR wasn't true socialist state.

[Kingfish]

Its possible although I would doubt it given that Engels and especially Marx were certainly opposed dogmatism which is what this approach would entail. Likewise such a closed system would be absolutely repugnant to the scientific aspect of socialism that Marx and Engels devoted so much of their lives to, and which ultimately defined Marxism as an ideology separate from all those utopian socialists who preceded them. Accordingly it would take a lot of mental gymnastics to justify solely relying on the thought of Marx and Engels.

[Five Year Plan]

Are there Classical Marxists today (those who follow thought of Marx and Engels only)?

Why? Do you think they had the final word on everything?

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Why? Do you think they had the final word on everything?
This reminds me of those "classical" Marxists who believe that Marx's conception of the Asiatic mode of production is completely valid and true.

[Rafiq]

This reminds me of those "classical" Marxists who believe that Marx's conception of the Asiatic mode of production is completely valid and true.

Like who? Do you even know what classical Marxism is?

Hint: it's not a silly internet revleft tendency - it's a term used to describe Marx and Engels's works, Marxism without the developments that came after they died. No one has ever claimed to be a "classical Marxist" as this is impossible. If one talks about classical Marxism, it's about returning to the basics and re evaluating them within our present conditions, not adopting some strict absurd doctrine that disallows any recognition or concurrence with Marxists after Marx and Engels. For fucks sake the things internet or fashion leftists say never cease to amaze me.... MEGAMEGAMEGAMANTROTSKY... give me a fucking break.

[Five Year Plan]

Like who? Do you even know what classical Marxism is?

Hint: it's not a silly internet revleft tendency - it's a term used to describe Marx and Engels's works, Marxism without the developments that came after they died. No one has ever claimed to be a "classical Marxist" as this is impossible. If one talks about classical Marxism, it's about returning to the basics and re evaluating them within our present conditions, not adopting some strict absurd doctrine that disallows any recognition or concurrence with Marxists after Marx and Engels. For fucks sake the things internet or fashion leftists say never cease to amaze me.... MEGAMEGAMEGAMANTROTSKY... give me a fucking break.

Quite frankly, the unnecessary snipes and personal venom in this post are just pathetic. Don't you agree, Brutus? (Setting aside the fact that nobody here has suggested that "Classical Marxism" is identical with a Revleft tendency.)

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Quite frankly, the unnecessary snipes and personal venom in this post are just pathetic. Don't you agree, Brutus? (Setting aside the fact that nobody here has suggested that "Classical Marxism" is identical with a Revleft tendency.)

It's best just to humor him. Apparently he finds his e-struggles important.

[Five Year Plan]

Oh, sure. It's just sad when otherwise well-meaning posters get sucked into his vortex.

[consuming negativity]

Can this bullshit /not/ infect and derail another thread?

[Five Year Plan]

Can this bullshit /not/ infect and derail another thread?

Well, let's see here. Everybody was on topic when Rafiq leapt in to post highly antagonistic comments to megamantrotsky, along with the accusation that he was stupid for saying something that any reasonable person can clearly see he never said. Turn your thinking cap on and draw your own conclusions about who is responsible for what you aptly call "this bullshit."

[Rafiq]

Him: "This reminds me of those 'classical Marxists'..."

Like who the fuck is he referring to? Who refers to themselves in such a way?

[Five Year Plan]

Him: "This reminds me of those 'classical Marxists'..."

Like who the fuck is he referring to? Who refers to themselves in such a way?

Maybe you should ask him and permit him to respond before assuming all sorts of answers he never gave, then use those imagined answers as a rationale to launch into a totally uncalled for spate of nastiness.

[Rafiq]

It's best just to humor him. Apparently he finds his e-struggles important.

All you do is troll here. That's all you do. And you've admitted it. It's cute, but it's getting old. These aren't struggles, and yes they are rather futile but it's (this website) a field of discussion. If you don't like that, or think that's silly, then stop posting.

[Rafiq]

Maybe you should ask him and permit him to respond before assuming all sorts of answers he never gave, then use those imagined answers as a rationale to launch into a totally uncalled for spate of nastiness.

Okay, sure, let's have him answer it then. I'd be intrigued if it was something other than what it's painfully obviously intended to be. He was most likely referring to self proclaimed Orthodox Marxists like myself in regards to the cannibalism thread, and you all know that. And if he wasn't, then he was literally just talking out of his ass.

[Five Year Plan]

Okay, sure, let's have him answer it then. I'd be intrigued if it was something other than what it's painfully obviously intended to be. He was most likely referring to self proclaimed Orthodox Marxists like myself in regards to the cannibalism thread, and you all know that. And if he wasn't, then he was literally just talking out of his ass.

And your grounds for saying your supposition was obvious is...? And how do you know he was talking out of his ass, when you haven't given him time to clarify what he was intending to say in the first place? This is what people here mean when we talk about you shitposting all over the fucking forum. Just stop, man. It's embarrassing to read.

[VassilisStalin]

I dont think so because most ideologies are quite mixed.Althrough i love marx's books and i consider him a great philosopher, i dont think theres only traditional marxism.Our communist party in greece has also some trotsikist beliefs

[Rafiq]

And your grounds for saying your supposition was obvious is...? And how do you know he was talking out of his ass, when you haven't given him time to clarify what he was intending to say in the first place? This is what people here mean when we talk about you shitposting all over the fucking forum. Just stop, man. It's embarrassing to read.

So you think it's reasonable to assume that any form of clarification could make the phrase "Reminds me of those 'classical Marxists'..." any less ridiculous?
Use your imagination, what explanation COULD excuse this?

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Okay, sure, let's have him answer it then. I'd be intrigued if it was something other than what it's painfully obviously intended to be. He was most likely referring to self proclaimed Orthodox Marxists like myself in regards to the cannibalism thread, and you all know that. And if he wasn't, then he was literally just talking out of his ass.
I'll gladly answer it. Just keep your trinitrotoluene outbursts to yourself next time. I won't be holding my breath, though.

I was making fun of those who consider themselves to be adherents of Marxism, but are only dogmatists and don't offer anything more than old wine served in new bottles. These so-called "Marxists" only pay attention to what Marx & Engels said and not at all to their philosophical method, thus making whatever ideas they have walking anachronisms. That is why I brought up Marx's interesting, but ultimately abortive conception of the "Asiatic" mode of production. The moment one puts on historical blinders is the moment Marxism ceases to be a science.

I hope this is clear enough for you, and anyone else that may have misconstrued my meaning. Though I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that it was only you.

P.S. If you have any problems with my username or me personally, send it to me in a PM.

[Rafiq]

Oh? And why are they "Classical Marxists" as opposed to Classical Marxists? The former implies they are self proclaimed. Also, what exactly are you referring to? Can you provide some examples? Or are you talking out of your ass?

[Rafiq]

This reminds me of those "classical" Marxists who believe that Marx's conception of the Asiatic mode of production is completely valid and true.

Which ones, MEGAMAN?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

All you do is troll here. That's all you do. And you've admitted it. It's cute, but it's getting old. These aren't struggles, and yes they are rather futile but it's (this website) a field of discussion. If you don't like that, or think that's silly, then stop posting.

I've stated numerous times that I am not a 'troll' and do try to engage in meaningful conversations here however despite my own brilliance, you guys very rarely seem game. I'm just saying, I will actually admit, even if I don't agree, I genuinely like reading your posts however what I don't like and what I like I pick on is your unnecessary aggro crap. Like calm down. If anything I'm RL's 'class clown' (hehe, see what I did there? Pretty clever I know lol)

I wanted to make some sort of reference to classical music and Marxists however as a token of good faith, I'll just say, I agree that classical Marxists are a group in the past and or not some thing where only Marx and Engels are used or whatever.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Oh? And why are they "Classical Marxists" as opposed to Classical Marxists? The former implies they are self proclaimed. Also, what exactly are you referring to? Can you provide some examples? Or are you talking out of your ass?
Obviously, I put "classical" in quotes (and only the word classical, something you continue to ignore), because they aren't really classical. In the first place, classical refers to an exemplary standard that has been long established. Keeping this definition in mind, Marx & Engels are not the only ones we should turn to. Lenin, Mehring, Luxemburg and Trotsky, among others of that period, would all fit into that definition since they made huge theoretical and practical advances at a time when the class struggle was at a fever pitch.

Furthermore, as I said in the previous post, these people also treat Marx as a Christian fundamentalist would treat the bible. The ICFI is an example of a group that I have in mind. At the end of (almost) all of their articles, they lifelessly repeat the necessity of working-class struggle, or show a degree of hero-worship for Trotsky's ideas that I'm sure that he would have found disgusting. Another political group that came to mind is the SWP after Trotsky died, which abandoned training in dialectics and believed that maintaining a 'correct' political line was all that was necessary. I could go on, but I won't. I think I have made my meaning clear enough even for you now.

In short--classical does not mean only Marx & Engels, or dogmatically adhering to what they or other revolutionaries wrote. The people I referred to unfortunately do both of these things and worse. Such are the reasons I put quote marks around the word 'classical' in an attempt at irony.

P.S. The vindictive use of my username is really not necessary.

[Rafiq]

Oh, that clarifies everything. Tacit reference to Trotskyist organizations as adherents of classical Marxism is surely relevant to the usage of the term within the context of this thread, and certainly makes complete sense.

My bad. You were right all along.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Oh, that clarifies everything. Tacit reference to Trotskyist organizations as adherents of classical Marxism is surely relevant to the usage of the term within the context of this thread, and certainly makes complete sense.

My bad. You were right all along.
Thank you. It's refreshing to hear that even you can admit your errors and mistakes. I appreciate your understanding.

Seriously though, you lack reading comprehension. I said that they are not classical Marxists, only dogmatists and hero-worshippers that pretend they are. The groups I mentioned are not obscure, but well known in the Marxist movement. How is it that you keep missing this?

[Rafiq]

This reminds me of those "classical" Marxists

Oh

[Five Year Plan]

Oh

But thanks once again for nearly derailing the thread with your vendettas and crazy bullshit.