Tips on organising in a call center?

[Q]

So, for the last 2,5 years I've been working in a call center for the Apple project. I say "Apple project" because it is an outsourced call center which also have other big companies, like Microsoft, Adobe, Adidas, several ISP's, etc. When you call any of the big companies, in reality you'll most likely get any of these outsourced call centers.

So, I've been wondering how to organise my fellow workers for quite some time. There are several hurdles to get over:

1. The most common question would be "why should I pay the 16 euro's a month to join a union?" (the fee for our income group of the biggest trade union federation). And maybe joining a union isn't the first priority, but then, where do I start really?
2. Turnover is a big issue, most people aren't here for longer than a year or so. Related to this is the fact that most people are working on a temporary contract. You only get a permanent contact when you either get to the fourth contract or you work here for 3 years consecutively. We're talking of about 200 people, divided in a Dutch and German part.
3. As said, in the office building many projects are served and you don't have access to all the departments. You may meet with people in the canteen, but that's a lucky shot. We're talking about a relatively big site, with about 1000 workers.
4. The client companies also use different call centers to spread the risks. If one call center is 'underperforming', pressure is put on them by others. Currently Apple has people at two call centers in the Netherlands, both of which are different companies and are about 300km from each other.

So, I'll ask comrades with experience in the organising field for tips to get this kickstarted :)

[Wonton Carter]

My call center is also outsourced from a major company. I've thought about organizing before, but not starting a professional union. I'd rather just put the pressure on management to give in by most of us not doing anything. My only recommendation is to know what your colleagues want, and push them to apply a lot of pressure on management to give in. Start small with simple demands and build up the pressure.

[Decolonize The Left]

Have you considered seeking support and help from an already established union in a similar field? It can be very difficult to organize a shop floor without and outside resource and support network. Are there any other unions which exist in similar fashion to the one you'd like to establish?

[Creative Destruction]

All I can offer is good luck. I tried organizing my coworkers when I worked in a call center, right after a round of some pretty devastating layoffs, and interest was sparked momentarily, but either I didn't have enough charisma to pull it off or someone heard about it and started a whisper campaign to nip the issue in the bud.

[PhoenixAsh]

So, for the last 2,5 years I've been working in a call center for the Apple project. I say "Apple project" because it is an outsourced call center which also have other big companies, like Microsoft, Adobe, Adidas, several ISP's, etc. When you call any of the big companies, in reality you'll most likely get any of these outsourced call centers.

So, I've been wondering how to organise my fellow workers for quite some time. There are several hurdles to get over:

1. The most common question would be "why should I pay the 16 euro's a month to join a union?" (the fee for our income group of the biggest trade union federation). And maybe joining a union isn't the first priority, but then, where do I start really?
2. Turnover is a big issue, most people aren't here for longer than a year or so. Related to this is the fact that most people are working on a temporary contract. You only get a permanent contact when you either get to the fourth contract or you work here for 3 years consecutively. We're talking of about 200 people, divided in a Dutch and German part.
3. As said, in the office building many projects are served and you don't have access to all the departments. You may meet with people in the canteen, but that's a lucky shot. We're talking about a relatively big site, with about 1000 workers.
4. The client companies also use different call centers to spread the risks. If one call center is 'underperforming', pressure is put on them by others. Currently Apple has people at two call centers in the Netherlands, both of which are different companies and are about 300km from each other.

So, I'll ask comrades with experience in the organising field for tips to get this kickstarted :)


Q...I work in the CC industry for 10+ years. Is your callcenter a member/former member of the WGCC?

[Q]

Have you considered seeking support and help from an already established union in a similar field? It can be very difficult to organize a shop floor without and outside resource and support network. Are there any other unions which exist in similar fashion to the one you'd like to establish?
FNV Bondgenoten is the logical union to go to. The cleaners union have seen some developments in a positive light these last few years. I could get into contact with an organiser I happen to know.


Q...I work in the CC industry for 10+ years. Is your callcenter a member/former member of the WGCC?
It was in the past, seeing some results in Google about it, but I've never heard of it so I figure it's not anymore. Why?

[PhoenixAsh]

To put it mildly. CC's are extremely hard to organize. There are two CC strikes that I am aware off that ever took place. Neither of which were successfull. The main reason is the one you mentioned. Employees are there for a short time and usually do not work there because they have much choice. If you say they aren't there for longer than a year awerage that would be a long time. The average life span of a CC employee in the Netherlands (outsourced / fascilitating) is 3.4 months...with 75% lasting less. If you made it through the first three...chances are they will keep you around.

Factors which will influence any chance of success are:

Does it have an OR (it should considering the amount of people)? Who makes up the OR? And how active is the OR? Is there any chance of being elected into the OR (this will give you some protection from being fired...not much,...but at least they can't fire you as easy. This is important if you want to unionize)?

What are the main grievances? And how many people share these grievances? Do you have access to somebody in management who is on the side of the employees (or at least...who is conscious of the necessity of employee satisfaction)?

Are there like-minded people around you? And is it possible to develop a full platform before you present it to the employees?

[PhoenixAsh]

FNV Bondgenoten is the logical union to go to. The cleaners union have seen some developments in a positive light these last few years. I could get into contact with an organiser I happen to know.


It was in the past, seeing some results in Google about it, but I've never heard of it so I figure it's not anymore. Why?

You could do FNV. An existing union is better since it has a stronger legal department. But you know the traditional unions.

The WGCC is responsible for the CAO which the branche has now. This was done to prevent unionization efforts specifically. Some asshole tried to unionize the workers of one of the largest members of the WGVV/VCN and the CEO got wind of initial successes. They created their own union of which every employee of a WGCC member was automatically a member. This was of course a farce, but it worked. The WGCC-union negotiated the CAO as it is now. And all other unions were basically useless. The guy trying to unionize btw was a member and president of the OR. Which saved his ass from being kicked to the curb. Although he could foget about his carreer. Till this day he is basically stuck at the level he was with every callcenter that was ever associated with the WGCC/ VCN or who the former WGCC CEO's know. Or so I have heard. That was 7+ years ago and the time was very much different. Now we have the Telemarketing laws and the branche got that much more competative and brutal.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

It'd be a daunting task to organise I'm sure and I have a friend working in a call centre currently struggling to organise for the very same reasons discussed above, namely the casualisation of the workforce and the management tactics that often pit workers against each other. I take heart knowing that the fast food workers in similar casualised working conditions have been capable of organising quite effectively, although it's not precisely all easily transferable.

This might seem a bit stupid, but one thing that was suggested to me (as a method of organising in retail) was to do what the ancient mutineers on pirate ships used to do and have a circle of signatures instead of a list when you present any demands or sign people up. Therefore, no-one is the first signature at the top and no-one can be singled out as the 'leader'. The idea being, that it's a way of making those involved feel more comfortable about signing their name.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

All I can offer is good luck on this one, sitting here in my own call centre with Unite recruitment posters everywhere, most they ever do is hold ballots that delay our annual pay reviews and increases..and hold meetings and give away coasters and mousepads.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I imagine, union organising aside, if you wanted to organise some solidarity you would need to get in with the supervisors. They are in the unique position in a call centre of being both near the bottom of the food chain (and being on an hourly wage and possibly zero-hours contract) yet also semi-permanent in comparison to the revolving door of callers.

The high turnover of callers, combined with the fact that many callers work semi-regular and part-time hours, means that solidarity amongst full-time callers alone is probably going to be useless in forcing changes to working conditions. Getting supervisors on board would force companies that run call centres to at least listen, because the call centre cannot run on a day-to-day basis if all their supervisors quit at once.

I would say that direct action is probably a good way to go, if you're brave. Organising a 'go-slow' could be a good tactic amongst callers in terms of sticking to the basic minimum of completed/successful calls per hour, and if you could get supervisors to refuse to give feedback to callers, then this would give a caller-based 'go-slow' legitimacy.

Best of luck, having worked in my fair share of CC's i'm acutely aware of how shit they can sometimes be. I've also worked in a 'good' call centre before, where we were given constant training, a good wage with very minimal commission, good working hours and flexibility, decent equipment and supportive supervisors, so I am acutely aware that call centres can and should be places that don't conform to the shitty stereotype that is sadly representative of how many call centres operate.

[La Guaneña]

Well, there are a few things to consider:

1. What kind of movement, union or not, allready exists in your catergory?
2. Who can you count with inside the cc to carry out tasks?
3. Who can you count with outside the cc to give you political, financial and legal support?
4. What are the most relevant recent (5 years) happenings in organizing in your catergory?


And also, take this very, fucking slow and don't do this by yourself. Item #3 is fundamental to act in a workplace, so you can avoid irresponsible actions that may lead to people losing jobs.

[blake 3:17]

**from the school of hard knocks** these are pretty much all questions **

What are the two or three most common problems workers face at the call centre? Have they been brought to management's attention or to the attention of other workers? What's the response been like? Have they been documented/recorded?

I'd suggest documenting them -- whatever the outcome -- in a way that respects peoples privacy.

I would also suggest trying to figure out on the sly what bargaining chips you have. Does your centre have a particular strength or ability? Is it handling queries from a particular region or on a particular technical problem? How and why are people being hired? Why do people stay?

And I guess last for now -- what could you get from a collective agreement you don't have now? Are you looking for higher wages, or benefits, or fixed schedules, or vacation or what??? What demands would you put on the employer that the employer could provide? Are there human rights issues which a union would address? Would there be a call for more hours for part timers? Or the right to take leaves for longer term employees?

In the last bit of union business I was doing, I was helping with some ideas around non-economic demands -- we all knew the financials were not good, but there was no reason that workers needed to be treated badly.

[Forward Union]

1. The most common question would be "why should I pay the 16 euro's a month to join a union?" (the fee for our income group of the biggest trade union federation). And maybe joining a union isn't the first priority, but then, where do I start really?

Getting people to actually join the Union is the last phase in the organising process. Firstly you need to map your workplace, how many staff are there, what pay do they get, what are there contracts like, and what issues do they feel most important.

Then you need to look at which of these issues you can easily win. This all needs to be done through informal one to ones, building up trusts and friendships etc. Eventually you'll realise that people are as angry about things as you are, but normally just lack the confidence or skills to know what to do. Thats where a Union steps in. But remember that the help the Union gives you is not charity, but solidarity. If people are pumped up and inspired they wont mind the dues. Don't confront the due issue as a genuine financial problem but as a lack of inspiration.

The way I've normally approached this with my colleagues is to, after listing the problems and building a network, asking them, "what are WE going to do about it" and describing the Union as a body of solidarity, brothers and sisters like us who pooled there resources together to help us out if we try and stick up for ourselves. Rather than as an alien force which will fix our shit for us or which we have no control over. This is important to make sure the staff feel involved, and do actually get involved.




2. Turnover is a big issue, most people aren't here for longer than a year or so. Related to this is the fact that most people are working on a temporary contract. You only get a permanent contact when you either get to the fourth contract or you work here for 3 years consecutively. We're talking of about 200 people, divided in a Dutch and German part.

Maybe try to start with a core of those people who have more secure contracts. People can be in the Union and have no obligation to tell their management and are allowed to deny it. This is a bit of a catch 22, a lot of these industries are so precarious that people do want to join unions, but the only way to make these industries more secure would be to unionise them.


3. As said, in the office building many projects are served and you don't have access to all the departments. You may meet with people in the canteen, but that's a lucky shot. We're talking about a relatively big site, with about 1000 workers.

In theory you don't need even the majority of the workforce. It depends what your goals are. A core of highly skilled workers can pressure management quite easily, even if the rest of the workers aren't directly involved. But these kinds of actions are normally for the skilled workers to secure their position against the unskilled or lower paid. So really, there's easy way around divided workforces. You will need to build the Union in as much of the workplace as possible. What I've done myself is build contacts through work events and so on, start an employees facebook page or some such thing. Maybe organise a social event.

But if you are able to identify issues which are easy to win, where the employer is breaking the law or not implimenting a particular health and safety law or whatever, you can win this without much risk to your members jobs. This will build confidence etc.


4. The client companies also use different call centers to spread the risks. If one call center is 'underperforming', pressure is put on them by others. Currently Apple has people at two call centers in the Netherlands, both of which are different companies and are about 300km from each other.

Well. It doesn't have to be the case that once you start to organise you begin to underperform. With all of these tricky subcontracted and outsources firms, clients etc, it's important to research them, and speak with the appropriate Union about all these things. I don't know exactly what Dutch law says, but in countries like Germany and Norway I can think of a few easy ways to deal with some of the issues you've faced.

Do the Dutch have a workers council sytem like France and Germany?

[Forward Union]

I dont know if this is useful, but if its similar to german law, set one of these up. I dont know if I understand the dutch properly, but it seems like you'd need 10 people?

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ondernemingsraad_(Nederland)

[Q]

I dont know if this is useful, but if its similar to german law, set one of these up. I dont know if I understand the dutch properly, but it seems like you'd need 10 people?

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ondernemingsraad_(Nederland)
Yes, we have one. Elections are once every four years if I'm not mistaken. But every once in a while a member retires or quits the job and the spot becomes available again for by-elections. I've been considering this for some time and next opportunity that opens up, I will make use of it.

[BIXX]

You can start by taking me off of your damn call list.

sorry I have nothing constructive to say I just wanted to make a funny

[bcbm]

not a lot to add except to wish you luck. we tried organizing the call center i work at here and it was more or less a debacle from the beginning and almost every organizer got fired or quit about a year in. not that it was getting very far by that point anyway.

[Decolonize The Left]

I'd also like to add: take it slow at first. It's important to be clear and concise with your actions and not let the cat out of the bag, so to speak, early on in the process. Do your recon within your shop floor, network outside to get support, and then move into the process of speaking to other workers once you have your information and support.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes, we have one. Elections are once every four years if I'm not mistaken. But every once in a while a member retires or quits the job and the spot becomes available again for by-elections. I've been considering this for some time and next opportunity that opens up, I will make use of it.

This could be very useful. You will have some protection from being fired, although they still will be able to if they really want to. And it gives you special insight in the operations of the CC and CEO privy information.

On the other hand I am not sure what your personal position is. The higher up in the ranks you get the more the OR will pose a further problem for carreer advancement. Plus...it won't really be a plus if you need to apply for lower and middle management positions (and you can forget about the higher management positions) if you put it on your resume.

That said. As far as I remember there is a rule wich state that a percentage nof the OR must be unionized or that unionized candidates get preference. I am not entirely sure how that went...but it could be helpful to get in.


Something to at least take into consideration depending on your immediate goals.

[Q]

This could be very useful. You will have some protection from being fired, although they still will be able to if they really want to. And it gives you special insight in the operations of the CC and CEO privy information.
That's exactly why I'm interested in it. This 'spider in the web' positionwould help a lot with organising efforts.


On the other hand I am not sure what your personal position is. The higher up in the ranks you get the more the OR will pose a further problem for carreer advancement. Plus...it won't really be a plus if you need to apply for lower and middle management positions (and you can forget about the higher management positions) if you put it on your resume.
Nah, I know what for shit job a supervisor has (I pity mine every day), for only marginal extra pay. Nope, not interested.


That said. As far as I remember there is a rule wich state that a percentage nof the OR must be unionized or that unionized candidates get preference. I am not entirely sure how that went...but it could be helpful to get in.
The union has its list during elections, I'm unaware of any other benefits though.

[blake 3:17]

Thanks to Forward Union for some very good ideas.

@Q -- would it make any sense to start publishing a blog with a few like minded people about the work in general? Throw in some tutorials with some humour and add a little bit about workers rights? It might not work in your sector because of intellectual property rights. I've tried doing a sectoral work blog in the past but it lacked a sense of humour and was too pessimistic. On reflection, I realize I should've made one that was 2/3 immediately useful, another 25% amusing/interesting, and the remainder critical/political. We both hear complaints all day. What kind of waged complaint hearer wants to hear more complaints in their off time?