Native American Revolution

[Zoroaster]

Would it be a good idea to get Native Americans to fight for a separate socialist country or society?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

No, for a whole host of reasons. Aside from the numerous problems and internal contradictions with the idea of "socialism in one country" which others will bring up, Native American tribes in Canada and America are economically intertwined with their surrounding conditions. We can remark on the injustice and brutality of manifest destiny, but we can't just undo its consequences on the economy and politics of Native Americans. No tribe has the population, territory or means of production to create a self-sustaining Capitalist country, let alone to allow for a socialist revolution of some kind.

Instead I think we should fight on behalf of Native Americans in the context of a broader, internationalist struggle which sees how they share a common cause with working class whites, blacks, asians, mestizos etc.

[exeexe]

Maybe it could happen in South America.

[Bala Perdida]

Ever heard of the AIM. They where a militant Indigenous American group from the 60's. They occupied the town of Wounded Knee and the island of Alcatraz. I thought they were cool. Other than that I don't know much about their ideals. I heard they where inspired by anarchism, but I'll research that later.

[DigitalBluster]

There's this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah), but it's anything but socialist (or even real). Russell Means was a major player in that, as well as AIM. His politics were all over the place.

[The Modern Prometheus]

Well as the Aboriginal movement in Canada is learning they can't make any meaningful changes on their own if they keep on being exclusively a Aboriginal organization as they have neither the numbers, influence or resources to change a Capitalist country like Canada into treating them like human beings. There only option is gaining support in the genera public not just with Aboriginals and this could be done as many Communists i know are very supportive of better living standards for Native Canadians.. Just like many white people in Canada too many within the movement see it as a Us vs Them thing in thinking that the white people (and with some more extreme reactionaries they include immigrants, Jews and the usual scapegoats as well) are currently the problem when it's the bourgeois that oppress not just them but everybody. Until they start to unite with other working class movements and build a more Socialist platform which is what the Black Panthers did as a example then they are going to get nowhere.

Not to mention that another major problem is that many of these Aboriginal leaders are inherently corrupt and little else but puppets for the government. We saw this problem happen during the whole Wounded Knee incident at Pine Ridge with the Tribal leader actually setting up the Guardians of Oglana nation better known as the goon squad to beat up and even kill any political opponents as well as anyone suspected of supporting AIM all with the backing of the US government of course. That's just one example and in Canada the corruption of the leaders of First nations people is endemic. They certainly don't represent the Aboriginal people and instead just further their own social status by taking government money meant to go towards all of the Aboriginal people within the area.

Of course white working class people are still to blame for not able to unite with Aboriginals in a more meaningful way considering we have much the same cause. I have heard not only Conservatives but many so called Liberals be openly racist towards Aboriginals in a setting where there is of course no Aboriginal people to be seen. And i am not just talking about white people here as they aren't the only ones i have heard crack a "joke" about Natives. Then again the bourgeois either Conservative or Liberal are inherently racist in their outlook. For the record the only time i have ever done that is when i have been hanging out with Native Canadian friends and we just start making jokes about each other. So that's abit different as there is no ill intent behind it.

I can really only see the Aboriginal movement achieving it's goals when the old racist colonial notions of the past die. That will not be a easy thing to do and will require alot of work from all sides. Fanon wrote extensively about why many indigenous and downtrodden people who are liberated in a sense basically become the new bourgeois only they are much more inept then the colonialists due to being inept and having missed the golden age of the bourgeois so to speak. The oppressed become the oppressors so to speak and we have not just seen this in places like Africa but also in Ireland though that's a unique case really. All to often those claiming to represent a certain group are the very ones that betray it in the end. While i do believe in National Liberation it is on it's own useless. You cannot be liberated and still live under Capitalist rule.

[Hagalaz]

I doubt it would happen. Here in California they are too busy running casinos and getting rich.:(

[Alexios]

I doubt it would happen. Here in California they are too busy running casinos and getting rich.:(
Nice stereotyping. How did this post get mod approval?

[Creative Destruction]

i'm getting a very "white man's burden" vibe off the OP's question.

[Decolonize The Left]

Would it be a good idea to get Native Americans to fight for a separate socialist country or society?

No.

Perhaps you aren't very familiar with the situations of the American Indian and/or other indigenous peoples. I will say this alone: an armed Indian uprising (let alone the idea of a socialist armed Indian uprising) is exactly what the US Government would like to see because it would provide them with moral capital to finish what they started so long ago.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Years ago I posted here an immigration-based political satire of the British National Party's program if it were to be adopted by Native American radicals, if that helps.

[Zoroaster]

i'm getting a very "white man's burden" vibe off the OP's question.

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean it like that.

[consuming negativity]

Nationalism is only worth supporting when it is already there, to direct it our way and make sure it doesn't end up with a bunch of crazy fascists in it. There's no reason as to why Native American communities would not be self-sufficient and continue to exist spread throughout the Americas. The tribal governments are surprisingly reactionary, and more or less share the same views as other Americans, whom are also surprisingly but enduringly reactionary within the US. They are part of the system of governance and were conquered by capitalism years and years ago.

There is no reason why the Native people shouldn't continue to develop their culture themselves if that is what they wish. But their governance is as useless and oppressive as anyone else's, and they ultimately share the same oppressors as we do. They are us, and we support ourselves. What is left to be said?

[Creative Destruction]

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean it like that.

Understood, but when you ask a question like that, it's good to draw on history and contemporary activist movements for the answer.

No, no outside group should go in and force Amerinds to organize around what the group thinks is best. This is something that needs to come from the community themselves, and there are a few groups who are still trying to engage in activism along those lines. AIM is still active, although weak, and they have similar goals to a lot of radical groups from the 60s. If you're interested in helping them, I'm sure they'd be willing to conference with you.

You also have to understand that whereas a lot in the community are striving for modernity, many others want to keep their traditions and to many folks, their traditions exclude something like Marxist socialism or advanced anarchism. It's not as if anyone is politically apathetic (although they might be, because like many lumpens and proletariats in non-reservation communities, they're in such crushing conditions that it feels hopeless), it's just that there are a diverse array of opinions.

tl;dr: what you should do is find an activist group that is on the same trajectory as you and see/ask if they need help and if they do, what help they would need.

I imagine it'd be a similar situation with white folks and the Panthers. John Sinclair from the MC5 asked Huey P. what it is that him and his community could do to help, and Huey responded with "You should create a White Panther Party and organize white people"...and Sinclair did just that and offered a good in-roads for many white liberals ad radicals to support the Black Panthers and get the word out on what they were doing.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I think it'd be neat if all the tribes of the Americas came together to form one huge monolith and then started a revolution.

[John Nada]

If the Native Americans want to liberate themselves from imperialism then I'd support it. I don't think any oppressed people should just wait for their oppressing nation's permission. Only they can have self-determination. It wouldn't be without problems, and it won't lead to full-blown communism right away, but it could be a progressive step in the right direction.

[Brotto Rühle]

No. Nationalism serves capitalism, and is in the realm of class collaboration. There is no "proletarian nationalism".

[LiaSofia]

Has the government stopped stealing their land yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTqV1pnQoos

[The Red Star Rising]

Would it be a good idea to get Native Americans to fight for a separate socialist country or society?
All this would result in would be F-22 Raptors and M1A2 Abrams tanks very quickly thundering into the reservations and restoring the Status quo, quite possibly resulting in the reservations being abolished altogether. The Native Americans don't have the industry, immediate military force, or the manpower to maintain independence against the United States when it commits it's military. Throwing revolutions in drips and drabs at the current military superpower of the world is only going to get a lot of workers slaughtered for little gain. You'd need a big revolution to happen all at once in as many places as possible, one backed with the might of modern weapons to fight regimes that currently own a monopoly on these modern weapons, so as to overwhelm them.

[Zoroaster]

All this would result in would be F-22 Raptors and M1A2 Abrams tanks very quickly thundering into the reservations and restoring the Status quo, quite possibly resulting in the reservations being abolished altogether. The Native Americans don't have the industry, immediate military force, or the manpower to maintain independence against the United States when it commits it's military. Throwing revolutions in drips and drabs at the current military superpower of the world is only going to get a lot of workers slaughtered for little gain. You'd need a big revolution to happen all at once in as many places as possible, one backed with the might of modern weapons to fight regimes that currently own a monopoly on these modern weapons, so as to overwhelm them.

I don' think that any kind of revolutionary army could stand up to the US. The revolution would have to decapitate both industry and the army from within.

[The Red Star Rising]

I don' think that any kind of revolutionary army could stand up to the US. The revolution would have to decapitate both industry and the army from within.
In the case of a violent revolution, it's still best to have the big guns on your side. Light infantry only forces make for good guerrillas, but poor attackers and cannot be expected to halt an incoming advance.